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View Poll Results: Are you changing your seat usage in response to TC's crash videos?

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  • Yes

    27 32.53%
  • No

    18 21.69%
  • Not sure/maybe?

    38 45.78%
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  1. #221
    CPS Technician mommycat's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    I took my FF MA out of my '07 Civic and put it in Grandma's car, putting the TF back in my Civic. I love my cowmoo cover but I could NOT keep that carseat/vehicle combo after seeing them perform so poorly together and having the option to just switch out the seats. I am (not too seriously) considering moving on to a Nauti or some such sooner and putting my MA RF for DS2 instead of one of my other seats.

    I will also not push the height on an infant seat again or advise others to do so. I will be telling the parents to shop for the convertible sooner rather than later.

    I am also thinking twice about the Otos I have, and will not plan to use them/let others use them as a primary seat unless they really need them to fit a 3 across. And I may not be LATCHing my boosters though I am not quite sure.
    Cat in Canada
    DS1 7 yo - 47 lbs (47"/??"t/??"top of head) - boostered in SKMonterey/2TBs/2CowmooPWSG/2HarmonyNBBs
    DS2 4 yo - 34.5 lbs (40"/15"t/??"top of head) - FF in CowmooMA/TrueFit/2Radians/2Nautiluses/HarmonyV7
    Also in possession of: Graco SafeSeat1 and MyRide (loaned out) + 1 demo seat: SnugRide.

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  3. #222
    Senior Community Member InternationalMama's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by sparkyd View Post
    ETA: I just measured my son out of curiosity and he is no more than 26" and only has an inch left to grow in his bucket. So he could outgrow a 29" bucket (by the 1" rule) at 27". Unless his torso takes a break and lets his legs catch up.
    Wow, I thought those height limits were so conservative in part to allow for different growth patterns. I wonder what percentage of kids outgrow infant seats before reaching them? I wonder if your son will. I agree that some kind of 'height from top' estimate is better, but 1" doesn't seem like enough after watching the videos and I don't know what is enough so that still leaves me unsure what to say to parents who ask this question. I wish manuals gave clear advice on this rather than putting technicians in the position of expecting/encourage parents to disregard manuals.

    Does the MA really have a stated rear facing limit of 32 inches?? That's crazy!
    International Mama
    Mom to Two - ERFing in a Graco My Ride 65 , Combi Coccoro, and Sunshine Kids Radian XTSL.

  4. #223
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by InternationalMama View Post
    Does the MA really have a stated rear facing limit of 32 inches?? That's crazy!
    Almost all rearfacing convertibles have a 32" rearfacing stated limit on them in Canada. Until recently it was more of them but there have been some changes/new releases that are changing that. (For instance the True Fit actually says 1" of hard shell. I know it's not the only one but it's the only one I can think of for sure).
    Last edited by triscuitsmom; 10-22-2009 at 09:38 AM. Reason: forgot to put "in Canada"
    Alison
    Tobias... 7y2m; 51lbs; harnessed and Linus... 4y9m; 35lbs; harnessed and Malachi 3y1m; 34lbs; rearfacing
    TTC another rearfacer

  5. #224
    CPS Technician Jewels's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    For some reason my computer won't let me watch all the videos. Can someone tell me what is happening with the oto that has people worried? I saw one and I didn't see anything that I thought was alarming but I can't seem to get the rest of them to work. Also, what is the panic about rigid LATCH? Sorry, I can't load the booster videos.

    I'm thinking with the infants seats it would depend on how much room was between the top of the seat and the front vehicle seat that. If it is a tight fit then I think I would be more inclined to not go by the 1" rule just so that the top of the babies head doesn't hit the vehicle seat while riding up but if there is plenty of room I think I would go to with the 1" rule. The KF in the Flex seemed to have plenty of room where as in the Routan it looked like it was a tight fit to begin with and not as much space between the infant seat and the vehicle seat in front of it. We know that RF babies will ride up the back of the seat so I don't really find this alarming but it will make me take into consideration the amount of space between the vehicle seat and the infant seat. I guess this is why Evenflo requires so much space between the vehicle seat and the handle.

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  7. #225
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    DS2, just turned 3 yr old (around 38#), is in a ff FPSVD behind the passenger seat in a 2008 Civic using the seatbelt and tethered. I'm trying to research this and make and informed decision. I am confused by some of the comments about people in similar situations switching to only using Latch and not the seatbelt. The video's show the harness ripping out in a FF MA in a civic 1) LATCH+seatbelt and 2)LATCH. Am I missing something or why are people wanting to avoid a seatbelt install??
    (In case it matters - I'm in the US and DS1 is in a GN on the driver side so using the middle is not an option)
    Thanks

  8. #226
    Carseat Crazy 3plus2isme's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Well we did officially give up our beloved cow marathons (One of our vehicles is an 07 civic.) DS was sad but I explained to him it's safER for him to be in a different seat in the car (and we had JUST bought frontiers for the truck so I couldn't justify moving a MA into the truck and letting the FN sit in the sidelines. We now have a RN and a RN XT in the car for the boys.
    DS(7) 54lbs, 50" in a Parkway SG & Monterey
    DS(5.5) 50lbs, 45" mainly harnessed in a Nautilus & sometimes cruising in a Parkway SG

    DD (17m) in a RF'ing Paisley BLVD & occasionally a MyRide65

  9. #227
    CPS Fanatic
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    I feel pretty comfortable with my boys in what they are, DS#1 is 8 and in a Regent, tethered. And DS#2 is 6 and in a Frontier, tethered. I AM concerned about using DS#2's travel seat, Britax Marathon, for him FF tethered. He is just over 40 lbs. I seriously am thinking that we will get him something else for next time we travel. DS#1 rides in a Britax Parkway when we travel, I feel pretty good about how it did in the test.
    I also feel comfortable with DD in her RF, tethered, Britax Marathon. BUT I am not sure if I will be comfortable with her in the MA when it is time to turn her FF. Thankfully I have a while on that, she is 23 lbs.

    There are big factors to consider in watching these test videos. The vehicle types have a huge impact on how the seats react, as they all react differently in each vehicle. A crash that severe in a smaller vehicle would be worse than in a large vehicle. AND this is not the typical crash that we would be in. We have to remember the reason we purchased the MA was how well it did in Britax's crash tests.
    Lori (I drive Cadillac Escalade ESV) SAHM to Brooks 9/13/01 seatbelt only, Brady 7/4/03 seatbelt only, Kinsadie 2/23/08 Pink Britax Frontier, and Brakin David 6/7/10 FF in a cowmooflage Britax Frontier Clicktight

  10. #228
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by InternationalMama View Post
    Wow, I thought those height limits were so conservative in part to allow for different growth patterns. I wonder what percentage of kids outgrow infant seats before reaching them? I wonder if your son will. I agree that some kind of 'height from top' estimate is better, but 1" doesn't seem like enough after watching the videos and I don't know what is enough so that still leaves me unsure what to say to parents who ask this question. I wish manuals gave clear advice on this rather than putting technicians in the position of expecting/encourage parents to disregard manuals.

    Does the MA really have a stated rear facing limit of 32 inches?? That's crazy!
    My ds outgrew the SS1 by height before 32". Had I kept him in it until 32" it wouldn't have been a case of his head hanging over, but he wouldn't have had an inch anyways. I think he was 27" when he outgrew his 29" snugride.

    As for other seats which don't have a numerical rf'ing limit, the EFTA, and the Titan don't. The Britax Advocate and RA50 are iffy... depends on if you look at the stickers or what part of the manual you look at.... The stickers still indicate 32", but the manual doesn't in the case of the RA50 and in the case of the Advocate it contradicts itself.

    The CA has a 36" rf'ing limit which is much more reasonable than 32" IMO.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


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  12. #229
    Forum Ambassador TechnoGranola's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird25ca View Post
    The CA has a 36" rf'ing limit which is much more reasonable than 32" IMO.
    What? In Canada it has a 36" RF limit whereas in the U.S. it has a 40" RF limit? WHAT about CMVSS would make that limit lower?

  13. #230
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoGranola View Post
    What? In Canada it has a 36" RF limit whereas in the U.S. it has a 40" RF limit? WHAT about CMVSS would make that limit lower?
    I don't honestly think it's CMVSS related, but who knows. Dorel has stuck with their 32" thus far so perhaps they thought they were being generous with 36"?
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  14. #231
    Senior Community Member canadianmom2three's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    I guess I am waaaaaay behind. I just saw the videos today, and they were shocking!
    It made me sick thinking of DH truck (F150, but even smaller than the one in the video). DH's is a little wee extend-a cab, the kind with the suicide doors. There is ZERO room for head excursion, and really we try not to use it much since there are not enough headrests to go around in the back seat.

    We have the oto, and dd(10) has been using it. I think that will stop. I'm not sure if she will use anything, she is a big kid 90+lbs and very tall, and passes the 5 step test on all but long trips.

    DS(7) rides in the monterey, but I never keep it latched anyway, we move it around too much. I was saving the oto for him, but won't bother now, he can use the monterey backless. Too bad, I really liked the oto as a compact, low profile booster.....

  15. #232
    Carseat Crazy
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Can someone tell me what exactly they said about the LATCH on boosters? I can't quite seem to decipher it to match what people's comments are. I wish they had tested a hbb with latch.
    M, 8yo, in a Monterey and Monarch
    L, 6yo, in Nautilus harness and Radian
    L, 3yo, Nautilus

  16. #233
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Re: recline, for a 30lber in a RFing MA is it safer to have it more or less reclined?

    Also, if you had said 30lber RFing in a tethered MA would you feel safe with that or would you consider a new seat? (I am looking to get one w/ a higher RFing limit anyway...) oh, I drive a Nissan Sentra.. TIA!

  17. #234
    Senior Community Member canadianmom2three's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
    Can someone tell me what exactly they said about the LATCH on boosters? I can't quite seem to decipher it to match what people's comments are. I wish they had tested a hbb with latch.
    I couldn't either, but from what I read, the oto in particular did extremely poorly, with the lapbelt coming out from under the guides during impact, and increasing the likelihood of abdominal injury. I also wish they had tested a hbb (in particular the monterey!!)

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  19. #235
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by zandj View Post
    Re: recline, for a 30lber in a RFing MA is it safer to have it more or less reclined?

    Also, if you had said 30lber RFing in a tethered MA would you feel safe with that or would you consider a new seat? (I am looking to get one w/ a higher RFing limit anyway...) oh, I drive a Nissan Sentra.. TIA!
    Considering that the MA has a 30lb rf'ing limit, I would be either replacing the seat right now or would be turning your child ff'ing.

    As for recline, more upright is better, especially with a child who is at the weight limit and at risk of over-rotation in a collision.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


  20. #236
    Moderator - CPST Instructor snowbird25ca's Avatar
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by canadianmom2three View Post
    I couldn't either, but from what I read, the oto in particular did extremely poorly, with the lapbelt coming out from under the guides during impact, and increasing the likelihood of abdominal injury. I also wish they had tested a hbb (in particular the monterey!!)
    I think the reason the oto did poorly was due to the design of the belt guides. It's also impossible to predict how the seatbelt geometry of any individual vehicle influenced the outcome. I suspect older children who are closer to passing the 5 step test would have a better outcome.

    In the end though, these were tests exceeding standards, and we know for a fact that some booster tests had the dummies slightly placed improperly - so who is to say how that influenced things.

    To answer the original question though, the hypothesis is that because the booster was LATCH'ed, it didn't move forward with the child leading to the child sliding off the front of the seat and allowing the lap belt to ride up. When it comes to it it may come down to the child sliding forward without the booster being the real deal... especially given the shape of the belt guides - a child sliding forward and pulling the belt with them, could definitely lead to the belt coming free of the guides and hence the increased risk of abdominal injury. Of course this is all hypothetical... the Monterey definitely has more substantial armrests, and likely do project far enough forward that the belt wouldn't be able to come free even if the child slid significantly forward on the booster seat.

    But hey, bottom line? These tests exceed standards and that needs to be kept in mind before considering making any changes in your current usage. Though those who have civic's and marathon's I certainly don't blame you for changing your seats. Quite honestly, that is one set-up that I would not continue using and be able to have peace of mind.
    Trudy - Canadian CPSAC certified CRST Instructor-Trainer and mommy to:
    Janeen - 17 yrs and learning to drive!
    Jillian - 11 yrs, 80'ish lbs, 5-stepping in each car. :O
    Jonas - 8yrs, 65lbs, Riding in an Oobr in each car.
    Both safely riding in either a 2007 Outlook or a 2015 Subaru Legacy depending on the day.


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  22. #237
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    Re: Will you be changing your seat usage in response to TC's videos?

    Quote Originally Posted by snowbird25ca View Post
    Considering that the MA has a 30lb rf'ing limit, I would be either replacing the seat right now or would be turning your child ff'ing.

    As for recline, more upright is better, especially with a child who is at the weight limit and at risk of over-rotation in a collision.
    sorry, I am in the US so the limit is 35lbs..

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