least unsafe??

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

4.5 year old 36 lbs

-backless booster on side facing jump seat
-Safety 1st Apex on side facing jump seat
-HB Turbo booster on side facing jump seat
-no carseat, just him sitting on jump seat

I'm pretty sure the jump seat only has a lap belt. Police told FIL it was ok to put 4.5 year old on the jump seat. He is stubborn and won't change his mind, so which is the least unsafe way?

ketchupqueen · Oct 8, 2009

They are all incredibly unsafe. There is no "least safe" or "most safe" here. They are all unsafe (and at least one of them is probably impossible) and should not be done. Period. If you choose to let him transport your child in that seat you are choosing to let your child be unsafe in the car, there is no way to make it safer.

sirrahn · Oct 8, 2009

They're all unsafe, but with absolutely no other choice I'd have to go with no car seat since none are approved to be used there.

When I was a tech, I had a family come in in a Ford Ranger with the side facing jumpseats. They had 2 kids, an infant and a little boy who was 4. The only thing we could do was put the baby up front (no airbag) in a new seat (she came in in an infant seat w/aftermarket cover and *no* harness just sitting on the jumpseat

)and mom and DS in the back in the lapbelts. Not safe at all, but at least the baby was safer, and it was the only vehicle they had.

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

It's not my child, it's my nephew. And he is basically legal guardian. Kid's mom wouldn't care. FIL is going to do it no matter what, and I'm trying to make the best of the situation. Believe me, I'm planning on writing a letter to the police department, letting them know what I think of them telling my FIL it's ok!

carseatcoach · Oct 8, 2009

I agree that they are all unsafe, but those seats are so tiny that a 4.5yo would probably fit without a carseat/booster and that's what I'd do.

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

wouldn't a high back booster at least provide a little more protection for his head?

kjohnston · Oct 8, 2009

Every HBB I've ever seen specifically states that it has to be used with a lap/shoulder belt, NEVER with a lap only belt. Is there a reason he can't ride in front in the HBB?

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

Yeah, I know it's not supposed to be used with a lap only belt. But no matter what he does it will be illegal. There are only two seats in the front, one for FIL, and one for MIL. I wish I would have known he was planning to buy a new truck.

carseatcoach · Oct 8, 2009

featherhead said:
wouldn't a high back booster at least provide a little more protection for his head?

It might. But it may also increase head excursion. It's really a case of "choose your poison".

Pixels · Oct 8, 2009

When a child is riding in a side-facing seat, and the vehicle is involved in a frontal impact (the most common type of crash), you basically have the child in a high-speed side impact. Side impact crashes are the deadliest type, for two main reasons. Vehicles just don't have much crumple space in a side impact, and the body isn't well supported. The first one is eliminated/extremely reduced when you have a side facing seat; the vehicle's regular front crumple zone takes care of that. But instead of the harness/seatbelt spreading forces out across the whole width of the body, those forces instead are placed on the narrower side of the body. Also, no whiplash protection. But instead of the normal front-back whiplash, it would be sideways.

A 5-point harness provides the most side impact protection. A high back booster provides some, though not as much. A 3-point seat belt provides very little, and a lap-only belt would be just one step up from none at all.

The best choice would be to have the child up front in a harnessed seat, next in a high back booster, last in a backless. (Assuming there is a shoulder belt.) If the child must go in back, the least horrible IMO would be a harnessed seat.

I think you should look up and print out the child restraint laws for your state, highlight the section that says proper use (assuming it says that), along with the owner's manuals for the carseats and highlight where they say not to use on a side-facing seat. Show that to FIL and the police chief.

ketchupqueen · Oct 8, 2009

Yep. I have my doubts that a HBB would fit in one, too. I am practically sure an Apex will not. And the Apexes don't have a reinforced neck area, either.

mom2juliarose · Oct 8, 2009

featherhead said:
Yeah, I know it's not supposed to be used with a lap only belt. But no matter what he does it will be illegal. There are only two seats in the front, one for FIL, and one for MIL. I wish I would have known he was planning to buy a new truck.

I'm not sure I know the dimensions or logistics of a jump seat, but could your MIL sit there and your nephew be boostered in the front seat?

J-max · Oct 8, 2009

what about an RSTV? (is there a possible tether anchor?) It woudl give a bit more side impact protection. If they refuse to put him in the front in a booster/harness seat, I am thinking an RSTV may be the best bet, esp if there is a shoulder harness. (parental choice against manufacture recommendation)

ketchupqueen · Oct 8, 2009

If there's no shoulder belt, there's no way to use an RSTV, because there would be no way to tether it.

If there were a shoulder belt I'd agree that might be safer than the belt only, and would probably fit better than a booster.

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

I didn't think the Apex would fit, but I figured it was worth a shot. I'm pretty sure MIL would not fit in that seat, she is a larger woman. I don't think the RSTV would be an option. They would not spend money on that. Plus there would be no tether, and I'm fairly certain its a lap only belt. And are they even available in Canada? Plus they are planning on using the truck like this on Saturday.

I'm possibly going with MIL tonight to get a high back booster for him, for regular use in the truck. MIL does not usually go in the truck, but this is a special trip, they are all going, and they need to take the truck. It is not even legal for my nephew to use a booster yet, but it's that or nothing with my FIL. I had put a Radian in his old truck and he used it for a while, but then he took it out and started using a booster again. Thankfully his old truck got written off so the Olli that was in there is being replaced, so I'm getting him a high back Turbo instead.

Sorry that's kinda long. I'm quite upset that my FIL decided to do this, and I'm feeling very scatterbrained and disjointed right now.

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

This is my letter to the police department:

To whom it may concern,

I am appalled at our police officers. I would expect that they should know a little bit about child safety in vehicles. Apparently that is not the case.

Just today (October 8th) my father-in-law went to the police station to ask if it was ok to put his grandson on the side-facing jump seat of his Ford Ranger. I told him it was not safe, or legal, but he didn’t believe me. He decided to ask the police, as surely they should know. Unfortunately the officer he talked to did not know what he was talking about, and told my father-in-law that it was alright. Well it is definitely not alright! The child in question is 4 years old, so by law he must be in a child carseat. He is also not yet 40 lbs, so he must be in a carseat with a harness. Add to that, carseats cannot be placed on a side-facing seat. So I have no idea how this officer came up with the idea that it was ok!

I think all our police officers should be trained in child passenger safety. I know not enough parents know what is safe, somebody needs to! Please don’t let this kind of terrible, unsafe advice be given again. I’d hate to see someone’s child be hurt or killed because they followed the advice of a police officer.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXXXXX

J-max · Oct 8, 2009

Good letter!
Sorry I missed Canada part - RSTVs are not availble there.

carseatcoach · Oct 8, 2009

I would focus on police officers needing to know the laws, not on "safety", which is rather vague.

featherhead · Oct 8, 2009

chickabiddy said:
I would focus on police officers needing to know the laws, not on "safety", which is rather vague.

changed that, thanks.

disbugsmomma · Oct 8, 2009

What year is the truck? It may have shoulder belts. My mom used to have a Mazda B4000 with jumpseats and I'm pretty sure it had them. I'm not positive though.

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