Found this last night.... is this the research we heard a bit about in the spring?
Research Testing - Child Protection Crash Research
Research Testing - Child Protection Crash Research
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What is this?
- Thread starter canmom
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Very interesting reading is what that is! I just spent a half hour watching crash test videos. Crazy stuff. Makes me think I should drive slower. 
I'm hoping someone who actually knows will chime in, but I'm guessing this is what has been published in response to the government telling Transport Canada to release the results of testing they have done over the years. The most recent updates to the info were in September, and I'm guessing that is when it was published. I haven't read all of it yet, but from what I've seen so far I think they did a good job. It is easy to read and makes it clear that you can't use these results to judge one car seat over another. Not that some people won't anyway. I have to say that seeing video of the FF Marathon seat being obliterated in a severe head-on collision makes me think twice about using it FF, even though they said the injury parameters were still in the acceptable range and it didn't happen in every (or even most) car(s). It is in my basement now anyway while using True Fits for ERF.
While I can see there being reluctance to widely publicizing the fact that this info is available (because people will compare/judge seats based on it), I do think that if more people saw crash test videos they might be more motivated to use their seats properly.
I'm expecting to see someone from TC on Friday, so I can ask about it if no one chimes in with details about this info and when it came out before then. There is also some new legislation coming out this week. Not sure what day.
I'm hoping someone who actually knows will chime in, but I'm guessing this is what has been published in response to the government telling Transport Canada to release the results of testing they have done over the years. The most recent updates to the info were in September, and I'm guessing that is when it was published. I haven't read all of it yet, but from what I've seen so far I think they did a good job. It is easy to read and makes it clear that you can't use these results to judge one car seat over another. Not that some people won't anyway. I have to say that seeing video of the FF Marathon seat being obliterated in a severe head-on collision makes me think twice about using it FF, even though they said the injury parameters were still in the acceptable range and it didn't happen in every (or even most) car(s). It is in my basement now anyway while using True Fits for ERF.
While I can see there being reluctance to widely publicizing the fact that this info is available (because people will compare/judge seats based on it), I do think that if more people saw crash test videos they might be more motivated to use their seats properly.
I'm expecting to see someone from TC on Friday, so I can ask about it if no one chimes in with details about this info and when it came out before then. There is also some new legislation coming out this week. Not sure what day.
QuassEE
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Thank you all for being so calm
On September 25th, Transport Canada published a series of crash tests on their website. The tests are a snapshot of some of the research that was done at TC over a 7 year period. Some of those tests include misuse and extreme conditions, whereas the majority represent ideal use. There are some shocking images in that footage, and some seat performance seems to be less than optimal.
This is the first time that we have had access to a significant collection of "real world" crash tests--that is, crash tests that were performed with ATDs in actual vehicles versus in sleds. The most significant differences between the sled tests and in-vehicle testing are the seatback in front interacting with the restraint and/or ATD and the numerous conditions associated with the occupant protection systems within the tested vehicles themselves (eg. how the vehicle performs in the crash, how energy is transferred to the occupants, how the seats themselves are designed, and so forth.)
These tests are such an amazing opportunity to learn, and to update some of the recommendations that we make to parents as techs.
A group of techs have spent the last week looking at the footage and associated write-ups. We just needed a little more time before having a finished product ready, and we were hoping to keep this under wraps until that point. So before anyone reacts too strongly to what they might see contained within that footage, please keep this in mind. There are some interpretations, recommendations, and opinions coming that have taken quite a bit of thought and work to develop.
Sit tight...
-Nicole.
On September 25th, Transport Canada published a series of crash tests on their website. The tests are a snapshot of some of the research that was done at TC over a 7 year period. Some of those tests include misuse and extreme conditions, whereas the majority represent ideal use. There are some shocking images in that footage, and some seat performance seems to be less than optimal.
This is the first time that we have had access to a significant collection of "real world" crash tests--that is, crash tests that were performed with ATDs in actual vehicles versus in sleds. The most significant differences between the sled tests and in-vehicle testing are the seatback in front interacting with the restraint and/or ATD and the numerous conditions associated with the occupant protection systems within the tested vehicles themselves (eg. how the vehicle performs in the crash, how energy is transferred to the occupants, how the seats themselves are designed, and so forth.)
These tests are such an amazing opportunity to learn, and to update some of the recommendations that we make to parents as techs.
A group of techs have spent the last week looking at the footage and associated write-ups. We just needed a little more time before having a finished product ready, and we were hoping to keep this under wraps until that point. So before anyone reacts too strongly to what they might see contained within that footage, please keep this in mind. There are some interpretations, recommendations, and opinions coming that have taken quite a bit of thought and work to develop.
Sit tight...
-Nicole.
I guess I did find something a little bit interesting. I figured if I stumbled on it by chance during an unrelated google search I figured it would be ok to post it.
Thanks for the reply Nicole. I can't see many of "us" on c-s.org flipping out from this data... I think we know a little more than the average bear if you will (or tech for that matter).
Thanks for the reply Nicole. I can't see many of "us" on c-s.org flipping out from this data... I think we know a little more than the average bear if you will (or tech for that matter)
.
canadiangie
New member
Is there footage of rear facing convertible seats, or just infant seats?
featherhead
Well-known member
I find it interesting that they recommend using LATCH/UAS whenever possible. It was also cool to see that they did testing using both LATCH and seatbelt at the same time. I didn't watch any of the videos, but still really neat to read all the info.
Clips of the TrueFit, Marathon and Intera are available.
ontariomama
New member
Thanks Nicole
I have a question that maybe others could ponder. It looked like all the tests were done using bench seating, not captain's chairs. Would that make a difference?
There is footage of a Truefit, a Marathon and something else (I can't remember).
I have a question that maybe others could ponder. It looked like all the tests were done using bench seating, not captain's chairs. Would that make a difference?
There is footage of a Truefit, a Marathon and something else (I can't remember).
ontariomama
New member
Oops! That's what I get for doing something before I finished posting
April
Well-known member
How is it an "anomaly" when SO MANY of the Designer 22's separated from the base. Sorry, but Dorel's position on that matter absolutely disgusts me.
Oh and I had really hoped they would do a test of a FF Radian WITHOUT the top tether. In any event, the Radian videos actually look pretty good to me. :twocents:
Oh and I had really hoped they would do a test of a FF Radian WITHOUT the top tether. In any event, the Radian videos actually look pretty good to me. :twocents:
momto2princes
New member
Thanks for posting that link. It sure is alot of information to absorb.
I am wondering though why so many US seats were tested by transport canada? It would have been nice to have seen the reports on the seats I have. I would have liked to have seen convertible seats tested rear facing not just buckets too.
All in all I am glad they have released the info.
I am wondering though why so many US seats were tested by transport canada? It would have been nice to have seen the reports on the seats I have. I would have liked to have seen convertible seats tested rear facing not just buckets too.
All in all I am glad they have released the info.
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
IIRC Britax supplied some of the Britax seats that were tested, and I'm going to ASSume that that is the case with the regent and the companion considering that neither has ever been available here. However - the companion was tested to CMVSS standards, it just never made it to market for a variety of reasons. I'm not sure if the same can be said of the regent or not...
Those are the only US seats that were tested though - all the rest are Canadian seats or seats that were available in Canada at the time the testing was done. The testing was originally started in 2003, so a lot has changed in the years that have followed...
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Not to defend Dorel per se, but even Transport Canada considers it to be an anomaly in some regards because of the hundreds of thousands of designer 22 seats in use, there has been no real life reports of the seat separating from the base in a collision. Due to the fact that the circumstances did not occur on the test bench - and only when testing was being done which exceeded standards, they considered it an anomaly.
That being said, one of the proposed changes in the regulations is the addition of a lap/shoulder belt to the standard test bench assembly. It is possible that if that part of the proposed amendments is adopted, that we would see separation from the base. It's a moot point though because both the base and the carrier itself have been re-designed already.
There is no doubt in my mind that if you push any seat hard enough that it will fail. Do I personally think that that is the instance in the D22 and MA failures? No, I honestly don't *personally* believe they were simply just pushed too hard... but sometimes real world data speaks more than lab data - and while these tests are done in real world vehicles, they are ultimately still lab tests which can be learned from, but don't necessarily reflect what happens outside the lab.
I understand the reason why TC issued the information notice, and I understand why Dorel has stood behind the seat. TC did it because they felt if something did happen at some point in the future and they had said nothing despite what had occurred during their research, that they would've been negligent in some shape or form. Dorel stands behind the seat because it's not failing in real life or detaching from the base. And considering that there are 100,000 of thousands of seats in use out there, I don't necessarily think they're being unreasonable. Would I personally use the base with a D22 that was involved in the notice? No. But I still see Dorel's viewpoint...
With the exception of the Bodyguard and Monarch booster seats and Regent, all the rest are/were seats available in Canada from 2003 to now. I have not run across the reasons why these 2 US boosters were tested though.
Quotes from different parts of the summary on the TC site why the Regent was used...
We bought most of the child seats we tested from local stores. All of these were certified to meet Canadian standards. We obtained some, like the Britax Marathon, Britax Regent, and Apex65, directly from U.S. manufacturers as samples for the test program. Child seats that were sold in Canadian stores when the study began had a recommended top weight limit of 18 kg (40 lb) to 22 kg (48 lb).
....
Beginning in 2005, we were able to obtain some U.S. car seats with greater weight limits. For example, the Regent, manufactured by Britax, had an upper weight limit of 80 lb (36 kg). In May 2007, the Canadian regulation was modified (for an interim period) to allow seats with a weight limit of up to 30 kg (66 lb) to be sold in Canada. We continued to use the 6 year-old dummy in our testing, but because these new seats had a higher weight limit, we also used the 10 year-old child dummy for some tests. The 10-year-old dummy weighed 35 kg (77 lb). One test was carried out with a dummy that represented a small adolescent and weighed 49 kg (108 lb). The heavier dummies, including the 6-year-old that was heavier than some recommended seat limits, were used to create a worst-case testing condition for seat attachments and vehicle anchorages
...
We used the 10-year-old dummy in 10 tests. We used the Britax Regent in nine of them because it was the only seat we had that could fit the 10-year-old dummy.
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TheNimpsGirl
New member
Even though I'm not in Canada I took a look at the link and some of the videos. Never having seen crash test videos like those they were fairly shocking, but considering the speeds (I converted them to mph so that I would have a better idea in my head) that they were tested at, I'm glad that the seats appeared to perfom as well as they even did. The MA is frightening as is the bases detatching from the infant seats.
I must also admit I was really really suprised at how much stretch some of the seat belts had as well as the harnesses. I know that of course that belts and harnesses stretch, but actually seeing it was definitly interesting.
I also noticed that they made a point of testing all of the infant seats with the handles down as it said that's how they should be installed. Not knowing the rules for seats for Canada, is that normal then? Because here in the states for example on my SS1 the handle says it is approved to be used in 3 of the 4 positions and I leave mine up. I just thought it was interesting... and makes me wonder if I should leave it up.
Interesting all the way around.
I must also admit I was really really suprised at how much stretch some of the seat belts had as well as the harnesses. I know that of course that belts and harnesses stretch, but actually seeing it was definitly interesting.
I also noticed that they made a point of testing all of the infant seats with the handles down as it said that's how they should be installed. Not knowing the rules for seats for Canada, is that normal then? Because here in the states for example on my SS1 the handle says it is approved to be used in 3 of the 4 positions and I leave mine up. I just thought it was interesting... and makes me wonder if I should leave it up.
Interesting all the way around.
canadiangie
New member
We do have infant seats up here that allow the handle to be left up. My understanding is that TC still leans towards lowering the handle (to a safe position per the manual) whenever possible.
If you go back and watch the Combi Centre footage you'll notice they do leave the handle up in one test (per the manual that actually requires it be left up).
It is interesting footage, eh? I'm very much enjoying it. Talk about a popcorn evening.
(though I will admit to choking a few times
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