Question about new Pennsylvania booster seat law...

H

hvgeobbels

Guest
Question about new Pennsylvania booster seat law...

I have read that this law was passed and that the governor was planning to sign it. Does anyone know if he actually has and when this law takes effect? Also what are the particulars that are actually in the law such as --is up until they turn 8 or through eight until they turn 9 and is there minimum weight in the law also? (I know the general guidelines, I just want to know what the new law includes and haven't been able to find it. I see many people in my area who don't put kids 4-8 in boosters and won't unless they know there is a law requiring it. Is there a link I could be referred to with the specific wording of the new PA law as it will be once signed?

By the way, I called my local barracks of the Pennsylvania State Police and talked to their carseat person who does their checks and he *didn't know about any such law yet* other than that it was in the works. No official info about it was sent to them yet. He could not tell me when it is supposed to go into effect.

Cherie
 
ADS
H

hvgeobbels

Guest
Re: Some info-

Thanks for the link on the wording. I read over the parts related to booster seats and it says it takes effect in 60 days.(some parts of this law take effect immediately and some in 6months). So the earliest it could take effect would be the first couple days of Feb if the gov signed it the day it hit his office and the latest would be the end of Feb or first few days of March if he doesn't sign it until the last possible day.

Thanks for the info.

Cherie
 
B

BrandyS.

Guest
As of February 21st, all children under the age of 8 or 80 pounds must be in a booster seat.
It is a secondary offense if you get stopped. If you get stopped the fine will be $134.00. If you do get the ticket and go out and purchase a booster, when you go to court, simply show them the receipt and you now longer have to pay the fine. In New Jersey however it is important to know it is a primary offense so you will still receive points on your license and insurance surcharge.

I am not quiet sure on the 80 pounds though as the paper just stated 8 years old.

Hope this helps.
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
BrandyS. said:
It is a secondary offense if you get stopped. If you get stopped the fine will be $134.00. If you do get the ticket and go out and purchase a booster, when you go to court, simply show them the receipt and you now longer have to pay the fine./B]


Iowa has a similar rule for their child seat tickets. However, even though you don't have to pay the ticket fine if you show you've purchased a seat, you DO have to pay the court fees, which in Iowa cost more than the ticket itself! I would expect NY to charge the court costs as well.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
PA booster seat law

I have read the law as it is posted at

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/2001_0/hb2410p4453.htm

The only thing I see in the actual law is the under 8yo guideline. I couldn't find anything about a minimum weight of 80lb (or otherwise) mentioned in the law. Just wondering (so I can answer questions from friends less informed).

(Note, I personally, understand why children under 80lb need to be in boosters and why you can't just go by age)

Cherie
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Booster requirements-

This is not a comment about the Pennsylvania law, but more about the laws of physics and booster limits.

Most advocates no longer use a weight guideline for boosters. The government still uses an 8 year age guideline, unless the child is already 4 feet, 9 inches tall. Height tends to be more of the determining factor as to whether a child (or adult!) is going to fit properly in a seatbelt without a booster.

Even age and height are not the best methods, because kids' proportions can vary even at the same height. Some are taller in the legs, others in the torso. Also, vehicle seats and seatbelts vary a lot; some are adjustable or fit small kids better, others don't.

The best way to tell is by fit, or using a "5-step" test. Also see:

http://www.car-safety.org/faq.html#Q9

And:

http://www.carseat.org/Boosters/630.htm

I hope that helps!

Unfortunately, standards of fit are not easy to enforce at a traffic stop. Height and weight can easily be measured, though, and sometimes states prefer age or measurements for legal reasons...
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
New booster seat law questions

Okay, so the law goes into full effect in a matter of days. My daughter clearly will have to be in a booster seat due to her age of 7 years old. My son is 9 years old but less than 80 lbs... does he also need to be in a booster seat? And until he exceeds 80 lbs? I really need clarification on this. My children are a bit on the smaller side... will they be in booster seats until they exceed 80lbs? Even if they are 10 or 11 by then>?
Shelley
jenniferandshelley@comcast.net
PS: Sorry about reasking this question if it was already answered. I am just very unclear if there are indeed weight inclusions on this law as well. I could not find anything specific in new postings.
Thanks!
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Hello-

I can't really help you with the specifics of the laws in your state. You might try your local police department for a clarification.

In addition, I have read that the Pennsylvania law may be reviewed and/or delayed. It might be worth checking with your local state senator or representative.

Regardless of the state law, the best way to determine if your kids need a booster for their safety is provided in the links I gave in my last post. Unfortunately, even some adults technically need a booster in some vehicles because of the poor fit of the seatbelts. On the other hand, adults should be a little smarter about remaining seated in position properly, even if the belts don't fit quite right...
 
M

Munchkin

Guest
PA Booster seat law

I was just informed that the PA law was INDEED put on hold until at least AUGUST of 2003.

However, I have a few questions as my daughters preschool as a van with 3 seats that have 3 lap belts a piece, thus fitting 9 kids and 2 adultal) but with this new law they cannot use this van anymore?? If this is the case, the school will be cancelling almost ALL of its field trips as if they cant get enough parents to drive (which on some field trips the parents arent supposed to go !)

I know her school is not the only one like this. I am sorry but I really do not agree with this law for several reasons ( i would have to post another one as my reasons are MANY)

also my other question with this new law, what is my (SINGLE but parent of two) sister in law to do who has an 89 escort with LAP BELTS only in the back. She CANNOT (absolutely CANNOT) afford a new car of even money to get shoulder belts installed.

and last question--Darren do you have a link where I can find the PA law as written as well as the notice that you read saying it was put on hold???

thanks
Juliann
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Hello-

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find anything offical on the update to the PA law. If I find a link, I will post it. The link to the original law is included in one of the first responses above in this thread.

Full size vans used by daycare centers and preschools are a problem on many levels. The lack of shoulder belts for adults and kids in boosters is a big one. The lack of head restraints is another. The handling characteristics and high rollover risk is also of much concern. Without proper restraints, it can be very dangerous to ride in these vehicles, especially when fully loaded. In fact, because of government warnings, many agencies no longer use these vans. Some insurance companies no longer issue policies for commercial use of these vans.

Motor vehicle crashes are the #1 risk of fatal injury for kids ages 1-14. Unrestrained and improperly restrained kids are the biggest contributing factor to these statistics. While some state laws do have problems, most actually do not go far enough. I have not read the details of the Pennsylvania law, so I have no comment.

As for your SIL, that is indeed a problem. Kids 12 and under are not safe in the front seat, and lapbelts are not as safe for anyone, especially kids. Depending on the ages and weights of her kids, there are some options. The Britax Laptop will work with a lap belt up to 65 pounds, provided there is adequate head restraint. It is discontinued, but can still be found at Zany Brainy and Right Start stores, including their websites. The Fisher Price Futura works with a lapbelt up to 60 pounds. It is also discontinued, but can be found on ebay and at dmart2000.com. The Safety Baby airway has a harness rated to 50 pounds and can be found at Burlington Coat Factory (babydepot.com). The Britax Marathon, Super Elite and Husky can also be installed with a lap belt. The Marathon goes to 65 pounds. The SE and Husky go to 80 pounds, but do require a tether above 50 pounds. These options may be more expensive than a shoulder belt retrofit, though. Ez-On makes specialty vests that may work with lap belts in other situations, though they may require a tether.

I do show that most 89 Escort models can have a top tether amchor installed, and Ford dealers should install one free as per a Ford directive. I may be able to supply a part number depending whether she has a sedan, wagon or hatchback. There is also a shoulder belt retrofit for '89 Escorts. I can supply the part numbers for those as well, though I realize you said this is beyond her means. They would probably cost well over $100 after labor charges.

Unfortunately, the only safe options may be one of the child restraints listed above, a shoulder belt retrofit or a different vehicle. If none of these are possible financially, you might try to contact a local health department or SAFE KIDS organization to see if they have a suitable child restraint for those that can't afford one. There are other options, of course, but none are particularly safe. At that point, it would be worth the time for your sister-in-law to visit a local technician for a free inspection and consultation.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful:-(

Darren
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Regardless of the law, those vehicles are not safe. It sucks, but it's true. I know finances can be tight (and that can be a huge understatement), but a funeral can be very expensive as well.
 
M

Munchkin

Guest
Booster seats

actually my sil is 24 is going thru a financially straining divorce and currently is working a minimum wage job--she is lucky to get $300 in 1 month and most of that goes towards child support and rent

She does have a booster seat for her son, but it is one of the Cosco ones.

She would love to buy him a new seat but ABSOLUTELY cannot afford that nor a funeral.

As for the preschools--i dont think it is fair that they cant really use the van --the only reason is that the new law SPECIFICALLY states that boosters MUST be used with both shoulder and lap belts regardless of their instructions

Because of this many area preschoolers can no longer go on field trips etc etc. however, if it is true that some booster seats can be used with the lap belts then wouldnt a van with belts be safer than nothing at all?????? NOw they would have to find $$$ to buy a bus and train all the teachers which could take years!


Darren--i tried those links and got bounced back to an error page-=maybe you can post them again so I can try?

Again I'm sorry if i dont agree with this law but we are all entitled to our personal opinions and I think the law is good In SOME cases but i dont think they thought about all the repercussions it would have as well.


Thanks for your help anyway and please dont hold my views agaiinst me just because I dont agree with this law. I liked the current law as is


and according to my state trooper y 4yo will probably be out of a booster before she supposed to be due to her height that grows rapidly


which by the way, with harness boosters--I had to go thur 6 before i could find 1 that would fit our car AND her because MOST did NOT fit her with the top harness usually at or BELOW her shoulders

Julianne
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Hi-

All opinions are welcome here, even if they differ from "best practice". Please keep in mind that as technicians and advocates, we are not only responding to you, but also to any other parents who may be reading:)

The original links worked for me, but here they are again:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BH/2001/0/HB2410.HTM

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/2001_0/hb2410p4453.htm

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/BT/2003/0/SB0274P0359.HTM

You can also go to the bill room:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/billroom.htm

And enter hb2410 from 2001-2002 , and sb274 from 2003-2004.


The problem with lapbelts is known to hospital ER rooms as, "Seatbelt Syndrome". Without upper body support, the lower abdomen is subject to a variety of typical injuries including ruptured organs, lacerated intestines, spinal fractures, etc. I've seen a number of case studies, and they are not pleasant to watch. Adults are at risk, too, but their hips are somewhat larger and stronger and help to some degree. No boosters that I know are safe with a lap-only belt for this reason. Most instructions specifically state that a lap and shoulder belt must be used.

Granted, a lap-only belt is still better than no belt, since it will still help prevent ejection and that is potentially even worse than Seatbelt Syndrome.

The full size vans are another issue. It seems like every couple weeks a 12 or 15 passenger van is in the news because it rolled over with a group of school children. Unfortunately, the details of the child restraints are rarely made public. This is big business for lawyers, and most details are hidden once settlements are made with the insurance companies and automakers. Try this google search, as an example- http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=passenger+van+rollover+lawyer :-(

As advocates and technicians, we have all seen what being improperly restrained can do to children, especially those that are members of law enforcement or emergency response services. We do often support laws like this. Unfortunately, many parents will assume that the law dictates what is adequate for safety. In most cases, the laws of state do not go far enough to cover the laws of physics that dictate what happens to an improperly restrained child.

Again, I highly suggest a personal visit with a trained local technician for a free inspection/consultation. You can find one near use using the resources at http://www.seatcheck.net .

Thanks for visiting, and for your opinions!
 

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