Carseat expiration and New York Times article - how to respond?

JamRowZ · Aug 11, 2009

My coworker just sent me the following New York Times Article saying that carseats don't expire for at least 10 years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/11/business/11shortcuts.ready.html?_r=1

My understanding is that the plastic degrades, etc.

Some of the expiration arguements seem more troubling like someone might have lost the manual (but I have mine), there might be an unknown accident in the seats history (that's always an issue unless the current owner is the original owner), etc.

Even new "technology" doesn't one day suddenly make a seat obsolete.

I just passed on a 5 year old Britax marathon to him and warned him it will expire in another year, but it does buy him a year and a hopefully increase in choices of higher weight limit convertibles in the interim.

I guess I'm looking for how different manufacturers come up with different expirations and what parts tend to stop working as intended over time.

Our Radian has a 8 year expiration while the Britax seats have a six year expiration. Is that because the steel in the Radian lasts longer than the plastic in the Britax or other testing by the manufacturer or how comfortable lawyers are with when the first 1% will start to fail or what?

Thanks!

JamRowZ · Aug 11, 2009

I know this is an old article he sent me, so if it's just that new information has come out since then, then that's helpful too.

swtgi1982 · Aug 11, 2009

I would love to know what manufactures they are supposedly quoting in the article, since most will tell you (depending on the seat) between 6-9years but that varies based on the manufacture, model, and how the seat is made. Yes, the plastic does dry out in a seat and the safety of a seat does decrease over time.

ketchupqueen · Aug 11, 2009

Car seats definitely do degrade over time. We don't know when exactly, we know that 6 years has a bit of a safety margin built in to account for exposure to heat and cold, sunlight, etc. But by 10, they're definitely past that margin.

Check out this video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvCRz7BRAM0"]YouTube - Car seat expiration[/ame]

Jenifer · Aug 11, 2009

At a recent conference Vera Fullaway from Combi gave us some descriptions regarding plastic and its longevity. She explained to us that the chemical stabilizers that hold the plastic molecules together stops working - - like when you get cracks in the plastic of your dashboard? Also plastics keep changing and standards keep changing. She gave an awesome session!

JamRowZ · Aug 12, 2009

OP here

My co-worker brought up that seat belts in cars never expire so why should carseats - they are made of the same materials. FWIW, I think he drives a 12 year old car.

Jenifer · Aug 12, 2009

I was told by a GM engineer that there is a repair manual that is used by the body shops. It specifies when seatbelts and/or retractors need to be replaced. And sometimes they do.

Also, seatbelts are attached to metal retractors. Car seat harness webbing is attached to or threaded through plastic which may not withstand a second crash. :twocents:

ketchupqueen · Aug 12, 2009

Yep, I recommend to parents that if their seatbelts are 10 years old, they have them inspected and plan to replace them soon, and if they are 15 years old or older, they have them replaced. And seatbelts are just the webbing! Not plastic like car seats!

Adventuredad · Aug 12, 2009

I get lots of emails asking about this. How come US seats expire but Swedish car seats don't? Some call it a marketing ploy while some believe in expiry dates. There is nothing magical happening to plastic at 5-6 years. Or at 10 years. Most people don't realize it but car seats have a HUGE safety margin built in. A car seat won't kill or injure a child due to the plastic being 7 or 10 years old. But as long as the expiry date is there recommendations should be followed.

Lots of paranoid opinions on this subject in general (I don't mean here), looks like the car seat lobby has done well

ketchupqueen · Aug 12, 2009

The thing is that we don't know what the safety margin is. In some seats it might even be more than others. But we don't know, and we can't factor in how each seat has individually been stored and used in what climates, etc.

I think it may be possible that Swedish seats don't have an expiration just because people there may tend to have less kids and buy each one a new seat, or at least only use it for 2 kids.

In America, for some reason, it's not uncommon for a seat to be passed through 4 or 5 kids in one family, then passed down to a cousin to be used for another 4 or 5 kids. That's a lot of use and a lot of years. I've literally seen 20 year old seats that have been in near-constant use since they were sold originally. I think passing down is one reason seats NEED to expire in this country, so we can point out a concrete reason to buy a new seat rather than using outdated technology and a seat that's been cleaned and stored who knows how by who knows who, above and beyond plastic expiring.

Adventuredad · Aug 12, 2009

I agree with you. Most parents aren't talking about your very logical and reasonable advice though. They say the plastic will fall apart and will be extremely dangerous after 6 years which has nothing to do with reality. If the car seat manufacturer themselves say a minimum of 10 years then we can figure out that the real number is far higher.

My point is not to use sets for 20 years but instead be a bit more realistic about the 6 years or so. The plastic won't fall apart, nothing will happen to a seat after 6 years

ketchupqueen · Aug 12, 2009

Oh, I can tell you the plastic does shatter more easily in an expired seat. I've seen it. Some more than others. Again, depends on brand, sun exposure, weather extremes, storage methods, etc.

We know there is a safety margin. Again, we don't know what it is in a particular seat, or how far that particular seat has been pushed. No, seats don't go poof the day after they expire. But I wouldn't use a seat that was more than a few months expired in anything less than a dire emergency. Especially where I live, seats take an extreme amount of sun and heat during the course of regular use, and I'm not comfortable with it.

Adventuredad · Aug 12, 2009

The guy at Graco just said the complete opposite

But, he acknowledged, the seven-year date builds in a pretty hefty buffer zone.

"We're not seeing any disintegration until a minimum of 10 years," he said.

And he's probably being extremely cautious considering law suits etc.

tanyaandallie · Aug 12, 2009

At the update class I attended last year we were told by instructors that at one of the conferences (KIM or Lifesavers, can't remember what) they were told specifically by manufacturers that expiration dates ARE NOT because of plastic degrading. They said we should stop telling parents that. Now, I will admit to still telling parents that on occassion but generally I don't get into why they expire. They said that it has much more to do with new safety standards, upgrades in seats, etc.

Honestly, if someone is sending you this specificaly to argue with you, just ignore them. Tell them what you know and then let it go.

ketchupqueen · Aug 12, 2009

Adventuredad said:
The guy at Graco just said the complete opposite

And he's probably being extremely cautious considering law suits etc.

That's one company, though. I see mostly Dorel seats, what about them? I had a 7 year old Dorel something come through that I dropped while I was carrying it over to the trash, and it split... What about Evenflo? Their baby buckets look pretty thin to me.

You know, I get that it doesn't happen instantly, but out here we do have extremes, I think we'll be closer to the short end of the safety margin. Not knowing at all what that is just makes me uncomfortable with seats more than about 6 months over expired.

minismom · Aug 12, 2009

I took a 10 year old Evenflo from a friend the other day. Her current seat had been lost by the airline coming back into the country and she found an Evenflo that belonged to her 8yo step-son. I made her take my RA and leave the Evenflo in my garage. I was gonna cut the straps. Anything else I should do?

QuassEE · Aug 12, 2009

I actually worry less about the plastic degrading than I do about seats having missing parts, missing manuals, being exposed to extreme temperatures, having been in a crash unknown to the current user, twisty and abused harnesses, grungy stuck buckles, and upgrades in current safety features/standards/recommendations. Plastic is certainly a factor, but it's not something I would consider primary. A seat isn't going to fail at 6 years 1 day, if it has a 6 year expiry (not unless it was also going to fail before the 6 year mark).. Just like it's not going to fail at 6 years 3 months. At least 3/4 of the seats I see at checks that have expired are missing either the manual, a part, have a harness assembly not child-worthy, or have an unknown history. Those are great (and obvious) reasons why these seats should be disposed of.

-Nicole.

JamRowZ · Aug 13, 2009

This came up because my co-worker has a hand-me-down Roundabout that will expire at the end of August 2009. It was used for a single child by his sister and then stored in their basement. The only part it is missing is the rear-facing tether strap connector and I gave him a more recent one from our retired Britax marathon. He has to use this seat behind the drivers seat and our Marathon is too big to fit.

Based on what you all are saying, it's probably reasonable for him to use THIS Roundabout until his daughter hits the 33 lb rear-facing limit and then depending on her age reassess what to do?

Thanks!

Nennib · Aug 13, 2009

ketchupqueen said:
That's one company, though. I see mostly Dorel seats, what about them? I had a 7 year old Dorel something come through that I dropped while I was carrying it over to the trash, and it split... What about Evenflo? Their baby buckets look pretty thin to me.QUOTE]

Interestingly enough, a number of years ago, probably 4, a rep from Evenflo Canada was quoted in the Saturday Auto section of the Toronto Star stating the exact same thing as the Graco guy. The Star doesn't have archives that go back that far online and I never saved the paper copy. But she stated it was perfectly fine to use a seat to 10 years and that expirations dates were about changes in seat design and safety standards and that if one family owned a seat since original purchase, it would be fine to use it to 10 years.

ketchupqueen said:

You know, I get that it doesn't happen instantly, but out here we do have extremes, I think we'll be closer to the short end of the safety margin. Not knowing at all what that is just makes me uncomfortable with seats more than about 6 months over expired.

Click to expand...

So about your idea of 6 months over expired - how does that work when you are dealing with Britax seat compared to Evenflo seat? Evenflo seats always to go the next December so you could have a seat made January 3 that really doesn't expire until 7 years (less 3 days) from the date of manufacture. But the Britax seat would expire right on the manu date??

QuassEE · Aug 13, 2009

In this case, I would tell the parents to use the seat until the end of August and then use the Marathon that isn't expired (assuming a known history, and it being intact and uncrashed.) I have yet to find a place that the Roundabout fit but the Marathon didn't, so long as they both had the new base design. And even that extra month may well buy them enough time that they can put the Marathon more upright as the child will be a month older--giving them the extra space they'll need.

Let's face it--10 years or 6.. why chance year #7, 8, 9 and 10 when you could potentially be playing Russian roulette with your child's life?

-N.

JamRowZ said:
This came up because my co-worker has a hand-me-down Roundabout that will expire at the end of August 2009. It was used for a single child by his sister and then stored in their basement. The only part it is missing is the rear-facing tether strap connector and I gave him a more recent one from our retired Britax marathon. He has to use this seat behind the drivers seat and our Marathon is too big to fit.

Based on what you all are saying, it's probably reasonable for him to use THIS Roundabout until his daughter hits the 33 lb rear-facing limit and then depending on her age reassess what to do?

Thanks!

Carseat expiration and New York Times article - how to respond?

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