Radian and side impact protection

mamamichelle

New member
I was all set to buy a Radian 65 when I flipped through a copy of Baby Bargains which said something to the effect of the Radian being narrower b/c it does not have the side impact protection of other seats, though it does have foam. Now I am confused - will this seat provide side impact protection comparable to the wider seats on the market?
 
ADS
well the MA is not very wide is it?
I have Australian seats and some American seats and I can clearly tell that the US seats have less SIP than the Austrailan seats.

What US companies test side impact?
 

snowbird25ca

Moderator - CPST Instructor
The Radian has side impact protection (SIP) in the form of the EPS foam in the shell. It's not going to offer as much as a seat with true side impact protection (tsip) like the blvd, or even one with a deeper shell like the MA, but the presence of the foam means it has SIP.

There are no standards in North America for side impact testing, and in general, manufacturers who put in EPS or EPP foam consider their seats to have SIP because the EPS/EPP foam reduces the likelihood of injury from the child impacting their head on the seat shell. I know for sure that Britax does conduct crash tests using side impacts in addition to the frontal crash tests required by FMVSS and CMVSS 213 standards, I'm not certain if other manufacturers do or not.

A 5pt harness in and of itself offers a good deal of SIP, having EPS/EPP foam also adds a lot more SIP. A seat with a deeper shell is going to provide more of a physical barrier between an object and a child, but when talking SIP, we're really talking more about reducing the risk of injury from child contacting the car interior (in the case of booster vs. 5pt harness,) or the hard shell of the car seat (plastic shell vs. an EPS/EPP foam lined head area.)

To me, EPS/EPP foam is more important than the actual depth of the seat shell. I'd rather have a radian with EPS/EPP foam and the lower profile, than a seat with a deep shell but no EPS/EPP foam. Side impacts where severe cabin intrusion happens have a lower likelihood of occuring than just a side impact crash on it's own. EPS or EPP foam is going to provide increased protection in all types of crashes regardless of the speed of the crash. A deeper shell isn't really going to provide an increased degree of protection unless you're looking specifically from the point of preventing an object that has entered the passenger compartment from being able to contact the child in the car seat. In a crash of that magnitude, I'm not sure that a deeper seat shell in and of itself would provide that much more protection because you'd also be talking about high speeds and it raises the question that if an object has already entered the cabin space, is it likely to just go through the seat shell too?

I'm not sure... and it's pretty much speculative. What I do know is that the foam provides added protection, and while a seat with the foam and a deeper shell would likely provide a deeper level of protection in terms of a physical barrier in a severe side impact crash, I'm not sure how much of a difference injury wise there would be the vast majority of the time.

It's important to remember that carseats aren't designed with the intent of being the primary protection to a child, they're designed to keep a child in place in a crash & distribute the crash forces over the child's entire body, allowing the child to ride down the crash forces while the physical crash zones of the car absorb and reduce the force that is actually transferred to the occupants. A properly used car seat allows the vehicle itself to absorb as much energy as possible and then distributes the force over the child's body. The EPS/EPP foam is going to make a difference in that area because it'll protect the child if they hit their head on the seat shell, but as for how much difference a deeper shell would make, it's speculative... Ultimately, the vehicle's crash test ratings are what determine the true risk to occupants - the best car seat in the world won't provide enough protection if the vehicle you're transporting your kids in has awful crash test ratings... just something else to factor in to the mix.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
It's important to remember that carseats aren't designed with the intent of being the primary protection to a child, they're designed to keep a child in place in a crash & distribute the crash forces over the child's entire body, allowing the child to ride down the crash forces while the physical crash zones of the car absorb and reduce the force that is actually transferred to the occupants. A properly used car seat allows the vehicle itself to absorb as much energy as possible and then distributes the force over the child's body. The EPS/EPP foam is going to make a difference in that area because it'll protect the child if they hit their head on the seat shell, but as for how much difference a deeper shell would make, it's speculative... Ultimately, the vehicle's crash test ratings are what determine the true risk to occupants - the best car seat in the world won't provide enough protection if the vehicle you're transporting your kids in has awful crash test ratings... just something else to factor in to the mix.

:thumbsup:

That was just so nice, it had to be said twice :)

And to the OP, fortunately the blather that the BB book contains contains can be questioned on their forums... where a few of us hang out and give out really GOOD information :whistle:
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
The Radian has side impact protection (SIP) in the form of the EPS foam in the shell. It's not going to offer as much as a seat with true side impact protection (tsip) like the blvd, or even one with a deeper shell like the MA, but the presence of the foam means it has SIP.

I disagree with this. The point of SIP is to keep the head from impacting on hard points in the vehicle (like the support beams). Energy absorbing foam probably reduces the likelihood of injury due to impact on the child restraint itself (I don't know of any data proving this, but it makes sense). Energy absorbing foam does nothing if the head leaves the seat shell, and a seat with out deep wings isn't going to prevent the head from leaving the shell in a side impact.

There are links to European crash test videos of seats with and without SIP in this post here.

Side impacts are statistically rare, but when the occur, they tend to be among the most lethal. When I was shopping for a new vehicle, I definitely considered side impact protection and chose a vehicle that had side curtain airbags and scored well in side impact crash tests. When my kids ride in other cars, I do feel better if they're in seats that offer a degree of SIP.

Installing the seat in the center seating position places the child farther from both potential side impact locations, and tethering the seat is also supposed to reduce injuries in a side impact. Rear facing seats provide better side impact protection than front facing ones, and a 5 point harness is better than a booster. We have no standard for judging the actual performance of US seats which claim to offer SIP, except when they have European siblings whose crash test results we can see (as with the Graco Turbo/Graco Junior Plus), and that's not the case with any of our US convertible seats.
 

joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
Consumer Reports has long lauded the shallow-sided Britaxes for having EPS and 'better side impact protection'. And how do we know that the Radian side crash *doesn't * contain the head? (as hard as that is to imagine, having gawked at oeamtc crash tests all these years, and even the SIP safeguard that allows the head to fly out of the shell). So are we thinking the Radian SIP claim is possibly just a marketing ploy, and maybe some of us are assuming the EPS is the reason they are making it (looks at self guiltily, remembering CR reports of years gone by...). How about top tethering? Can you imagine how much better those EU seats would perform if top tethered?
Ok long story short: a seat with EPS probably IS better in a side impact, but unless it contains the head thoroughly, then they are using the loose/non standards to say anything they want to to sell their products. That said, ANY 5 pt harness actually is going to perform a lot better in a side impact than a booster (even the cosco hbb i've seen in a dramatic side crash contained the dummy very well, and that's a no-SIP seat if there ever was one!)

(way more than 2 cents and loads of rambling, sorry! I use the Radian outboard with no qualms, anyway, lol)
 

UlrikeDG

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Consumer Reports has long lauded the shallow-sided Britaxes for having EPS and 'better side impact protection'.

Oh, well, if CR says it, it must be true. THEY are infallible. :ROTFLMAO:

And how do we know that the Radian side crash *doesn't * contain the head? (as hard as that is to imagine, having gawked at oeamtc crash tests all these years, and even the SIP safeguard that allows the head to fly out of the shell)....

Ok long story short: a seat with EPS probably IS better in a side impact, but unless it contains the head thoroughly, then they are using the loose/non standards to say anything they want to to sell their products.

I can't prove it, but I seriously doubt the shell of the Radian does anything to protect the head in a side impact; any SIP provided by the seat comes from the fact that it's a (hopefully tethered) 5 point harness. I have absolutely no reason to believe that any other (tethered) 5-point harness seat would do any better than the Radian, whether the seat claims to offer SIP, TSIP or RECARO SIP or not. I own a Marathon which does have deeper "wings" than the Radian, and I make the same assumption about that seat as I do about the Radian: the shell of the seat does little to anything to protect my child's head in a side impact crash.

If Britax or Radian or any other seat manufacturer wants to release crash test videos & results with proof to the contrary, I'd be thrilled to see them. I'd love to see definitive proof, for example, that Britax's TSIP seats actually do contain a child's head in a way that will limit or prevent injuries in side impacts beyond what non-TSIP seats do.
 

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