Radian 65 install question

Our Radian 65 was delivered yesterday and after reading about the install difficulties with a Radian, I was delighted to get 2 rock solid installs using the backseat passenger and driver's side lap/shoulder belts (it took a few female stalk twists, but the installs were great). 

The back center position is another story, though. I wonder if any of you have an opinion about this. We have a 2004 Scion xb (i.e., a small Toyota). My son is 33 months, about 38 inches and 34-35 lbs fully clothed.

Here are pics of our center lap/shoulder belt:

Buckled


Unbuckled


You can see how the belt comes out of another stalk - so that there are 2 stalks to deal with in the center position (unlike the passenger and driver's positions).  You can't unbuckle the belt from that stalk unless you insert a key (or other small narrow device) to depress a latch to release it. I'm guessing it's a safety feature.  Anyway, that stalk seems to prevent a really rock solid install in the center position with a Radian.  It presses up against the seat in such a way that it holds the belt away from the Radian's belt path. I hope I'm making some kind of sense.

Anyway, after twisting that stalk 3 times so that it sat lower, I was getting a decent install (seat moved less than an inch at the belt path), but not really satisfactory to me (I don't like it to move at all!).

This is what it looked like. You can't really see how it stands away from the car seat base. I should have taken a front pic:



Here's the other side (you can see how the stalk twisting brought the female end nice and low and away from the belt path):



I have to decide how important keeping my son in the middle seat is to me, and I just wanted opinions.  Correctly installed, the Radian is a pretty good seat, yes?  My son will be fine on the side of the car, right?  I will say that this seat is designed so well that I'll be able to fit 2 other people in the back seat with the Radian on the side!

I do like him in the middle, but I'm thinking it would be better to have a tighter install on the side...

Any thoughts?

PS. I'm also wondering if that middle belt will give me trouble with other higher weight seats anyway.  What to do, what to do?

PPS. Oh, I also installed the Radian in my husband's Prius, and it's like this seat was made for that car! I got the most awesome rock solid install with no stalk twisting and very little wrestling with the seat and belt. It was thrilling feeling of acomplishment!

I also look forward to flying with the Radian. It seems the perfect width and height for an airplane seat.


Thank you in advance for any advice.

Congrats on your new Radian. I do know what you mean about preferring rock solid installs whenever possible. I think that as long as the '04 xB manual permits a carseat installation in the center using the seatbelt, and you have less than 1" of movement at the belt path, then you're good to go. :twocents: I say this in part because you don't have side curtain airbags, and because the IIHS side impact crash scores weren't so good for that version of the xB. But that's me, I'm rather paranoid about side impact crashes given my family's history of multiple crashes, most of which involved side impacts. Another tech who isn't so influenced by personal side impact crash history might tell you the opposite, to go with the more rock solid install. It's really a matter of which you're more comfortable with, assuming either location achieves an acceptable install. :twocents:

On a semi-related note, isn't the headroom great in the xB? It's amazingly roomy in there. DH drives a 2008 Scion xB (redesigned with side curtain airbags, IIHS side impact crash tests haven't been done on it yet). The '08 model has a "regular" lap-shoulder belt in the center without that extra buckle stalk on the shoulder belt side. It still is a bit dicey to get a solid Radian seatbelt installation in the center, but there's less than an inch of movement at the belt path. I prefer the center over the outboard position due to my above mentioned paranoia about side impacts.

Hey Amelia....

I was just coming over here to post about this!!!

(Amelia is from my mommy board)

I think the question she really wants the answer to is Can she twist BOTH of the buckle stalks for the center install???

Susan

Jeanum said:

On a semi-related note, isn't the headroom great in the xB? It's amazingly roomy in there. DH drives a 2008 Scion xB (redesigned with side curtain airbags, IIHS side impact crash tests haven't been done on it yet).

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Hi, I'm the original poster...I realized I had to register to reply!

Anyway, thanks for your advice and I do love the headroom in the xb (I think our model even has a couple inches more)! It's made getting my son in and out of his carseat a breeze from day one. I think the xb is the perfect family car for a small fmaily.

SusanMae said:

Hey Amelia....

I was just coming over here to post about this!!!

(Amelia is from my mommy board)

I think the question she really wants the answer to is Can she twist BOTH of the buckle stalks for the center install???

Susan

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Hi Susan! :happy-wavehello:

Your post on BTB gave me the idea to post this on a car seat site. Is it funny that I picked yours? Or is this the only one? :scratcheshead:

SusanMae said:

Hey Amelia....

I was just coming over here to post about this!!!

(Amelia is from my mommy board)

I think the question she really wants the answer to is Can she twist BOTH of the buckle stalks for the center install???

Susan

Click to expand...

Yes, she can... up to 3 full 360 degree twists on *each* stalk.

It really is up to you. Both of my kids have never ridden in the center position. When we had a little two door sports car, Aiden was in the driver's outboard position and then we upgraded to a minivan. They are both in outboard captain's chairs. A properly installed seat with a properly buckled child in it will be safe in both locations.

In the case where you will have other passengers in the backseat, I'd probably keep him in the center just for ease of the other passengers getting in/out.

I just wanted to update my original post because I followed some of the advice on other Radian install threads (namely lowering the adjustable bottom/recline) and I got a really nice install in the center position of the xb! I also really pushed down instead of back on the seat which gave me a much tighter install. It's still an easier install on the outboard positions, but now I feel like I can have my Radian and eat it too (oh wait, that's cake, isn't it)!

Thank you all for your help and support.

Yayy! :thumbsup:

Way to go Amelia....It's empowering to know you can do it all by yourself...and it's right!

Susan

aidensmom02 said:

Yes, she can... up to 3 full 360 degree twists on *each* stalk.

It really is up to you. Both of my kids have never ridden in the center position. When we had a little two door sports car, Aiden was in the driver's outboard position and then we upgraded to a minivan. They are both in outboard captain's chairs. A properly installed seat with a properly buckled child in it will be safe in both locations.

In the case where you will have other passengers in the backseat, I'd probably keep him in the center just for ease of the other passengers getting in/out.

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We have been told in the past you can't twist both stalks. It's one or the other not both. We had this issue with the Honda Pilot & Toyota Highlander in the past and both Honda & Toyota said no.

jen_nah said:

We have been told in the past you can't twist both stalks. It's one or the other not both. We had this issue with the Honda Pilot & Toyota Highlander in the past and both Honda & Toyota said no.

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oops. I guess I'd better move the seat to an outboard position, or back into my husband's Prius. I really do like the seat, I just wish it would work in the center position of my xb...sigh.

jen_nah said:

We have been told in the past you can't twist both stalks. It's one or the other not both. We had this issue with the Honda Pilot & Toyota Highlander in the past and both Honda & Toyota said no.

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So was this a vehicle manufacturer specific thing then?

Technically speaking, the "mini" buckle and the regular buckle are both on the same webbing, so the change in strength of the belt is the same for each of them. And seeing as it's webbing strength that's affected, and the webbing strength is still more than strong enough at 3 full twists, I don't see a problem with twisting both buckle stalks unless a manufacturer says not to since each stalk is still independently strong enough for any car seat installation and we know that the full strength returns once the webbing is no longer twisted...

Would you be able to provide more info on this in general or is it vehicle specific? Did the manufacturers have any problem with the twisting of the main buckle stalk since that's a common fix & vehicle manuals usually specifically prohibit it if they don't want you doing it...

snowbird25ca said:

So was this a vehicle manufacturer specific thing then?

Technically speaking, the "mini" buckle and the regular buckle are both on the same webbing, so the change in strength of the belt is the same for each of them. And seeing as it's webbing strength that's affected, and the webbing strength is still more than strong enough at 3 full twists, I don't see a problem with twisting both buckle stalks unless a manufacturer says not to since each stalk is still independently strong enough for any car seat installation and we know that the full strength returns once the webbing is no longer twisted...

Would you be able to provide more info on this in general or is it vehicle specific? Did the manufacturers have any problem with the twisting of the main buckle stalk since that's a common fix & vehicle manuals usually specifically prohibit it if they don't want you doing it...

Click to expand...

It came from the manufacture when we called in. I wasn't the one to call it was another instructor of ours that called. So, I don't know if he asked about still twisting the main stalk or not. There was also a post/email on the CPSList about this too a while back and all the replies were only 1 can be twisted.

See I see it as since it's all the same belt it still falls under the 3 full twists period. We don't know if it will change the intergerity of the belt or not. There is no testing to say if it will or won't.