Graduating toddler from Cybex Aton

sgand · May 29, 2014

Our toddler is 15 months, 18lbs, 29-30 inches tall. She has outgrown her Cybex Aton and we want to get a convertible seat. We have an Acura RSX. Apart from safety which is most important, we would like:

1. To rear face as long as possible
2. Convenient for travelling i.e. a seat that is convenient to carry (lightweight helps) in airports and most importantly easy to install securely without a base in taxis and rental cars (this was the main reason we got the Cybex Aton and it has been outstanding)
3. Use the seat as long as we can - we are more concerned about height limits than weight limits

Options we are looking at:
Combi Corroco
Diono RadianRXT
Diono RadianR100
Recaro ProRide
Britax Marathon
Britax Roundabout 55
Maxi-Cosi Pria 70
Cosco Apt 40RF
Cosco Scenera

Open to any recommendations.
The Combi Corroco seems great, but we fear she will outgrow the seat very soon. Also there was a recent recall.
The Dionos look great too, but we are concerned about side impact protection.
The Recaro looks good, but concerned about seat being hard to install.

henrietta · May 30, 2014

sgand said:
Our toddler is 15 months, 18lbs, 29-30 inches tall. She has outgrown her Cybex Aton and we want to get a convertible seat. We have an Acura RSX. Apart from safety which is most important, we would like:

1. To rear face as long as possible
2. Convenient for travelling i.e. a seat that is convenient to carry (lightweight helps) in airports and most importantly easy to install securely without a base in taxis and rental cars (this was the main reason we got the Cybex Aton and it has been outstanding)
3. Use the seat as long as we can - we are more concerned about height limits than weight limits

Options we are looking at:
Combi Corroco
Diono RadianRXT
Diono RadianR100
Recaro ProRide
Britax Marathon
Britax Roundabout 55
Maxi-Cosi Pria 70
Cosco Apt 40RF
Cosco Scenera

Open to any recommendations.
The Combi Corroco seems great, but we fear she will outgrow the seat very soon. Also there was a recent recall.
The Dionos look great too, but we are concerned about side impact protection.
The Recaro looks good, but concerned about seat being hard to install.

For traveling by plane or jumping in and out of taxis, the Cocorro, Apt 40, and Scenera are all great choices. The Cocorro and Apt 40 could be considered to have more of a learning curve for rear facing installs than the Scenera. The Cocorro can also be top tethered rear facing and/or can be installed w/the shoulder belt routed behind it. But these won't last your 15 months old very long, esp if you want to rear face till 3 or 4. As to the recall on the Cocorro, it's really no big deal at all. They send you out a recall kit w/a replacement harness, which is pretty easy to change out, and that's it. If you're just now buying one, it should already be fixed. I would consider one of these seats, or the Evenflo Sure Ride (or Titan 65 at Burlington) to be just your "travel seat". Then, you buy a different seat for regular daily use (not that you couldn't use any of these for daily use, just that they won't last as long).

Regarding the Radian and side impacts: *any* rear facing seat offers excellent side impact protection, b/c facing the rear is so protective in a side impact. The Radian also has a steel frame and some versions have head wings. I wouldn't even worry about side impacts being worse in the Radian vs any other seat of it's "trim level".

As for the Recaro being hard to install, that wouldn't worry me that much. I'd be more concerned that it has very little leg room for extended rear facing and is not super rear facing friendly for the long haul. The Radian can be more trouble for installs. But every seat has it's quirks and you can learn them and work with it!

The Britax are well known for being easy to install and use, but they aren't considered to be the most long lasting for rear facing anymore. The Radians, Chicco Nextfit, and Graco Headwise (or Size 4 Me 70) are taller than those others and have more leg room. Have you looked at the Graco Headwise and the Chicco Nextfit? Those both also offer deeper sides in comparison to the Radians.

sgand · May 30, 2014

Thank you for that. Do you know which of these seats we've been discussing can be installed without the base in the car using both the lap portion of the seat belt as well as the shoulder portion of the seat belt? That is something we can with the Cybex and really value that feature.
I think the idea of having a travel/spare seat and a full-time seat might work for us.

henrietta said:
For traveling by plane or jumping in and out of taxis, the Cocorro, Apt 40, and Scenera are all great choices. The Cocorro and Apt 40 could be considered to have more of a learning curve for rear facing installs than the Scenera. The Cocorro can also be top tethered rear facing and/or can be installed w/the shoulder belt routed behind it. But these won't last your 15 months old very long, esp if you want to rear face till 3 or 4. As to the recall on the Cocorro, it's really no big deal at all. They send you out a recall kit w/a replacement harness, which is pretty easy to change out, and that's it. If you're just now buying one, it should already be fixed. I would consider one of these seats, or the Evenflo Sure Ride (or Titan 65 at Burlington) to be just your "travel seat". Then, you buy a different seat for regular daily use (not that you couldn't use any of these for daily use, just that they won't last as long).

Regarding the Radian and side impacts: *any* rear facing seat offers excellent side impact protection, b/c facing the rear is so protective in a side impact. The Radian also has a steel frame and some versions have head wings. I wouldn't even worry about side impacts being worse in the Radian vs any other seat of it's "trim level".

As for the Recaro being hard to install, that wouldn't worry me that much. I'd be more concerned that it has very little leg room for extended rear facing and is not super rear facing friendly for the long haul. The Radian can be more trouble for installs. But every seat has it's quirks and you can learn them and work with it!

The Britax are well known for being easy to install and use, but they aren't considered to be the most long lasting for rear facing anymore. The Radians, Chicco Nextfit, and Graco Headwise (or Size 4 Me 70) are taller than those others and have more leg room. Have you looked at the Graco Headwise and the Chicco Nextfit? Those both also offer deeper sides in comparison to the Radians.

Mary_Ann · May 30, 2014

Only infant seat have a detachable base. Convertibles are one piece seat, meaning you install the whole seat. Like it has been suggested before, you could buy 2 seats. One could stay in your car and you can have a cheaper and lighter seat for traveling and frequent installs.

The evenflo Sureride would be a great, inexpensive travel seat.

sgand · May 30, 2014

I understand that there is no detachable base. My question was about being able to use the shoulder portion of the seat belt to thread through the back of the car seat while rear facing, while also threading the waist portion of the seat belt and being able to lock off the seat belt. The Cybex Aton allows this.
I'm leaning towards the Radians, Chico Next Fit as the more permanent seat (I just need to figure out if they can fit in my Acura TSX securely) and perhaps the Evenflo Sureride or Cosco Scenera for the travel seat. We are going to be in Europe this summer, so I'm hoping one of these could work in a rental car and taxis.

Mary_Ann said:
Only infant seat have a detachable base. Convertibles are one piece seat, meaning you install the whole seat. Like it has been suggested before, you could buy 2 seats. One could stay in your car and you can have a cheaper and lighter seat for traveling and frequent installs.

The evenflo Sureride would be a great, inexpensive travel seat.

henrietta · May 31, 2014

sgand said:
I understand that there is no detachable base. My question was about being able to use the shoulder portion of the seat belt to thread through the back of the car seat while rear facing, while also threading the waist portion of the seat belt and being able to lock off the seat belt. The Cybex Aton allows this.
I'm leaning towards the Radians, Chico Next Fit as the more permanent seat (I just need to figure out if they can fit in my Acura TSX securely) and perhaps the Evenflo Sureride or Cosco Scenera for the travel seat. We are going to be in Europe this summer, so I'm hoping one of these could work in a rental car and taxis.

This probably answers your question about European belt routing, which isn't common on US seats: http://carseatblog.com/24554/rear-facing-carseats-with-european-beltpath-routing/

The Cocorro allows for the European routing, and so far for us, unless it's been installed with LATCH, I've needed to use the European belt routing. Otherwise, not enough of the seatbelt is pulled out to keep it locked (and I don't feel like using a locking clip). I like the feature, b/c with a heavier older child rear facing, it may help reduce how far back the seat tips in a crash (can't remember technical term for what I mean, sorry), but how much it matters for an infant seat or the Cocorro, I don't know, b/c babies and toddlers in these seats are small anyways.

You really shouldn't have too much trouble installing anything in your car. Read all the instructions for the car seat and your car's manual regarding car seat installations and practice. It's not that difficult to get a tight install with most of the car seats on the market now, esp the more expensive ones (added features that can make install easier). If you managed to figure out Euro belt routing...you'll be just fine! (-; Post back here if you need more help and/or have your seats inspected in your area by a certifed tech.

sgand · Jun 1, 2014

So it looks like only the Cocorro has European routing which I understand is far safer when installed with just the seat belt and not LATCH (like in Europe this summer for us). Any other seats you are aware of that allow European belt routing? The Cocorro looks great, but she is 30 inches, and I don't see it last more than a year or so.
Going to check out some seats in person soon - will report back. Thanks.

henrietta said:
This probably answers your question about European belt routing, which isn't common on US seats: http://carseatblog.com/24554/rear-facing-carseats-with-european-beltpath-routing/

The Cocorro allows for the European routing, and so far for us, unless it's been installed with LATCH, I've needed to use the European belt routing. Otherwise, not enough of the seatbelt is pulled out to keep it locked (and I don't feel like using a locking clip). I like the feature, b/c with a heavier older child rear facing, it may help reduce how far back the seat tips in a crash (can't remember technical term for what I mean, sorry), but how much it matters for an infant seat or the Cocorro, I don't know, b/c babies and toddlers in these seats are small anyways.

You really shouldn't have too much trouble installing anything in your car. Read all the instructions for the car seat and your car's manual regarding car seat installations and practice. It's not that difficult to get a tight install with most of the car seats on the market now, esp the more expensive ones (added features that can make install easier). If you managed to figure out Euro belt routing...you'll be just fine! (-; Post back here if you need more help and/or have your seats inspected in your area by a certifed tech.

oakster · Jun 1, 2014

If it helps any, my son outgrew the Aton at exactly a year by height limit, and is just outgrowing the Coccoro rear-facing at 2 years, 7 months. He only grew four inches and gained four pounds between his one year and two year checkups--so growth does slow down for some kids in the second year. It was more than worth it for the time we got out of it in our situation--we often have to install it in rental or carshare cars, which are often compact cars. The SureRide is not great for small cars (doesn't fit in our own car, for instance) so that was too much of a question mark if we got somewhere and then couldn't use the seat. I chose the Coccoro over the Scenera because there had been posts here about the Scenera needing a pool noodle for installs some of the time, and I didn't want to have to carry one around just in case; not sure how common a problem that really is, though. We have yet to find a situation where the Coccoro hasn't installed beautifully. I believe those two seats are similarly sized so you will likely not get much longer out of one than the other. The one taller lightweight seat I found that did work in small cars was the Safety 1st Guide 65, so you could check that out. Our main seat is a Britax Marathon, and while it installs well everywhere we've tried it, it is heavy and a pain to carry places when I've occasionally had to do it. The Radians might be better since at least they fold down and have straps, though.

henrietta · Jun 1, 2014

oakster said:
If it helps any, my son outgrew the Aton at exactly a year by height limit, and is just outgrowing the Cocorro rear-facing at 2 years, 7 months. He only grew four inches and gained four pounds between his one year and two year checkups--so growth does slow down for some kids in the second year. It was more than worth it for the time we got out of it in our situation--we often have to install it in rental or carshare cars, which are often compact cars. The SureRide is not great for small cars (doesn't fit in our own car, for instance) so that was too much of a question mark if we got somewhere and then couldn't use the seat. I chose the Cocorro over the Scenera because there had been posts here about the Scenera needing a pool noodle for installs some of the time, and I didn't want to have to carry one around just in case; not sure how common a problem that really is, though. We have yet to find a situation where the Cocorro hasn't installed beautifully. I believe those two seats are similarly sized so you will likely not get much longer out of one than the other. The one taller lightweight seat I found that did work in small cars was the Safety 1st Guide 65, so you could check that out. Our main seat is a Britax Marathon, and while it installs well everywhere we've tried it, it is heavy and a pain to carry places when I've occasionally had to do it. The Radians might be better since at least they fold down and have straps, though.

The replies about Cocorro always crack me up.

I've installed loads of seats. I absolutely love our Cocorro on many levels, but generally installation isn't one of them! It's a LOVE/HATE seat for sure. And it makes me mad that for some seatbelt installs, I *have* to do the Euro belt routing b/c the seat isn't wide enough to pull out enough seatbelt to have it stay locked! In my Volvo it also needed a pool noodle...same thing in my Mom's Nissan Murano.

I do think a lot of kids would make it to 2 rear facing in the Cocorro, some might make it to 3. My baby girl is unlikely to make it to 3 in it...I would guess she'll outgrow it by height at or around 2 years old. My kids generally are longer in the torso. Considering how small/compact it is, it offers a lot of room for it's size. I think it has a 36" height limit for rear facing..

henrietta · Jun 1, 2014

sgand said:
So it looks like only the Cocorro has European routing which I understand is far safer when installed with just the seat belt and not LATCH (like in Europe this summer for us). Any other seats you are aware of that allow European belt routing? The Cocorro looks great, but she is 30 inches, and I don't see it last more than a year or so.
Going to check out some seats in person soon - will report back. Thanks.

There aren't any other convertibles in the US at this time that allow or offer Euro routing. To be honest, that seat belt in the way is a PITA to me when I need to get my daughter in her seat from the side where the shoulder belt routes around.

It should be a bit of a consolation that properly installed and used rear facing car seats are extremely, extremely safe...I'm sure the Euro routing offers something extra safety wise, but it really will not worry me that much when we can't use the Cocorro any more. I didn't buy it for the Euro routing.

If I were going to pick between two additional safety features, for example Euro routing vs anti rebound (like top tethering rear facing or an anti rebound bar), I'd choose the anti rebound features. The Euro routing may offer something in a side impact, too, but that's one thing we do think anti rebound features can really help in. The Britax convertibles, Diono Radian, Cocorro, can be tethered rear facing, if that interests you. I think there's another one that is considering it or is allowed with-can't remember. hths

oakster · Jun 2, 2014

henrietta said:
The replies about Cocorro always crack me up. I've installed loads of seats. I absolutely love our Cocorro on many levels, but generally installation isn't one of them! It's a LOVE/HATE seat for sure. And it makes me mad that for some seatbelt installs, I *have* to do the Euro belt routing b/c the seat isn't wide enough to pull out enough seatbelt to have it stay locked! In my Volvo it also needed a pool noodle...same thing in my Mom's Nissan Murano.

I do think a lot of kids would make it to 2 rear facing in the Cocorro, some might make it to 3. My baby girl is unlikely to make it to 3 in it...I would guess she'll outgrow it by height at or around 2 years old. My kids generally are longer in the torso. Considering how small/compact it is, it offers a lot of room for it's size. I think it has a 36" height limit for rear facing..

I wonder if it's just that it installs better in smaller cars? The biggest car I've ever put it in is a Forester, but we've used it in maybe 15 different models of compact or mid-sized cars (Accord, Prius, Jetta, Fit, Versa, Echo, Accent, etc., plus taxis) and it's terrific for cars of that size. I've never encountered a problem with a seatbelt not locking, though, and I've also never installed with LATCH or forward facing, so not sure how those compare. But the seatbelt install seems on par with our Marathon as far as ease (and neither seems especially difficult, but I do also do both frequently so could just be that I'm used to them). The only install I really hate is the Marathon with LATCH because I can never get the straps to loosen so that I can get the connectors in (though it's easy once they finally do!)

The Coccoro does have a RF height limit of 36" though, so not great for a tall child. My son will likely hit 36" right as he hits the one-inch limit (which will be whenever he has his next growth spurt, so any day now!) We got it knowing he might or might not make it to two in it, though, so I'm psyched that we got past 2.5!

sgand · Jun 2, 2014

Thanks all for great info so far. I looked at some options in the stores although I haven't seen the Radians or Cocorro yet. Given how small the back is in my car and that fact that it has bucket seats (Acura TSX) I'm not sure what will fit in the center and RF. I'm going to forget about the Euro routing for now for my permanent car seat. From what I've seen so far I'm leaning towards the Radian RXT, Britax Marathon/Boulevard/Pavilion/Advocate as a permanten option and/or the Cocorro (was $125 at target just a few days ago - now $200?) or Cosco Scenera as the travel/temporary seat. My immediate concern is a car seat right away and for our trip in Europe where we will most likely be renting a small car. We will be flying with a lap infant (I know I know) so don't really need to use it in the airplane but it seems of all my choices so far, Britax would be the worst for carrying around.

sgand · Jun 3, 2014

So I checked out the Britax Marathon and Radian R100 - both were able to install in the middle seat with seat belt, but need the tether attached (via adapter) to be rock solid. The Radian was also installed using LATCH, but I'm pretty sure the Acura TSX does not have center LATCH even though it is physically possible. I would not use this option and would seatbelts as I don't want to go against the car manufacturer. The Marathon was an easier install, the Radian R100 seemed like it has much less side impact protection and coverage but easier to travel with (although heavier could be carried as a backpack and I can handle it). Still undecided here on whether to get the Radian RXT / Boulevard Marathon and what to do about travel car seat.

abigaylebelle · Jun 3, 2014

I would choose the marathon over the radian for your situation. I find the marathon much easier to install, use, and carry around than the radian. Also the radian has tons of extra necessary parts that are quirky (rearfacing boot, angle adjuster for small cars, safestop for littles forward facing). All of that is a pain when you need to remember it traveling.

As for whether or not you need a secondary travel seat that is up to you. I've traveled with britax convertibles plenty and it's been fine.

sgand · Jun 4, 2014

The Marathon looks like it could work for us. We are currently trying to figure out whether we should get a travel seat and permanent seat or just get one seat for now until our toddler outgrows it. As a travel seat we could get something like the Coccoro or the Snugride 35 or Marathon, and as a more permanent seat our options that fit would be Marathon, Next Fit, Foonf. My concern with the Marathon as a permanent seat would be how long we would use for rear-facing (what is the RF height limit? could not find it). All the seats I've mentioned above seem to be best for getting secure install with in any car small, big, with/without LATCH or locking seatbelts (very important requirement).

oakster · Jun 4, 2014

Britax doesn't have a standing height limit for rear-facing--they just go by the one-inch rule. My son has 3-4 inches of growing room left in the Marathon, and he's just about 36" tall/2y7m. Since you already have an infant seat, I wouldn't bother with the SnugRide. If your trip is coming up soon, I'd go ahead and get a seat that will be good for travel (probably the Cocorro if it were my pick--I love that it fits into our umbrella stroller for easy transport, which our Marathon does not b/c the base is wider; we've strapped it onto a suitcase and carted it around that way, too, which is also pretty easy). I know people do travel with the Britax seats, but honestly--after lugging our Marathon four blocks home from the car rental place once while hanging onto my toddler with the other hand, I have no desire to ever do that again. If you do want to travel with it, I'd highly recommend getting one of the little carts to pull it around--they look pretty handy.

Whichever seat you choose for travel, I'd just use that in your car for now, and then once you're back from traveling you can decide whether to get a different primary seat or just stick with one convertible for now. (Who knows--by the time your daughter outgrows the travel seat, there might be more interesting things on the market that you'd rather get to replace it, too.) Even if you do end up getting a different primary seat when you return, you'll have that many more months of life in it before it expires, in case you plan to hand it down.

sgand · Jun 4, 2014

Does the Marathon install pretty easily in rental cars in Europe and in taxis?
I'm less concerned about carrying a big or heavy carseat at this point, it seems too restrictive a constraint. The Marathon might be a good compromise between a Cocorro/Snugride and a NextFit/Foonf.
I plan to use a padded backpack style bag like this:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Childress-Ultimate-Seat-Travel-Black/dp/B0009RNXNA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1401924466&sr=8-2&keywords=britax+marathon+bag"]Ultimate Car Seat Travel Bag[/ame]

henrietta · Jun 4, 2014

oakster said:
I wonder if it's just that it installs better in smaller cars? The biggest car I've ever put it in is a Forester, but we've used it in maybe 15 different models of compact or mid-sized cars (Accord, Prius, Jetta, Fit, Versa, Echo, Accent, etc., plus taxis) and it's terrific for cars of that size. I've never encountered a problem with a seatbelt not locking, though, and I've also never installed with LATCH or forward facing, so not sure how those compare. But the seatbelt install seems on par with our Marathon as far as ease (and neither seems especially difficult, but I do also do both frequently so could just be that I'm used to them). The only install I really hate is the Marathon with LATCH because I can never get the straps to loosen so that I can get the connectors in (though it's easy once they finally do!)

The Coccoro does have a RF height limit of 36" though, so not great for a tall child. My son will likely hit 36" right as he hits the one-inch limit (which will be whenever he has his next growth spurt, so any day now!) We got it knowing he might or might not make it to two in it, though, so I'm psyched that we got past 2.5!

Well...my Volvo XC70 wagon didn't exactly have a large backseat, certainly no larger than the average sedan, nor does the Nissan Murano. There's leg room and such, but it was really about the belt geometry as to why it was a pain for rear facing. I got it in, but it took some practice. I've never installed the Cocorro forward facing, but I have done latch. Latch isn't bad at all. Just the seatbelt thing.

henrietta · Jun 4, 2014

sgand said:
Thanks all for great info so far. I looked at some options in the stores although I haven't seen the Radians or Cocorro yet. Given how small the back is in my car and that fact that it has bucket seats (Acura TSX) I'm not sure what will fit in the center and RF. I'm going to forget about the Euro routing for now for my permanent car seat. From what I've seen so far I'm leaning towards the Radian RXT, Britax Marathon/Boulevard/Pavilion/Advocate as a permanten option and/or the Cocorro (was $125 at target just a few days ago - now $200?) or Cosco Scenera as the travel/temporary seat. My immediate concern is a car seat right away and for our trip in Europe where we will most likely be renting a small car. We will be flying with a lap infant (I know I know) so don't really need to use it in the airplane but it seems of all my choices so far, Britax would be the worst for carrying around.

I would highly recommend that you consider purchasing a seat like the Scenera for your trip. Carry it on the plan and hope that maybe there will be an empty seat that you can use to install the seat on for baby. If you end up gate checking it b/c there's not a seat, and it gets damaged (they toss car seats around just like the rest of the luggage), at least you are not out $200 plus.

FWIW, the Cocorro is regularly around $200. Another tech here on the boards found mine for me for around $120 (if I remember correctly) at an overstock type store. The Target deal was a really good one for the Cocorro. But for this first trip, esp since you were unable to purchase baby a ticket of her own, I'd pay $40-50 for the Scenera. If it weathers your trip well, you'll have it for another trip later.

And yes, toting the Britax is probably heavy...same with Radians.

Graduating toddler from Cybex Aton

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