Question rear facing convertible seat in 2 compact cars

Hello,

My wife has a 2009 Beetle and I have a 2013 Mazda3 5 door. Our 16 pound 6 month old is tall and close to outgrowing his Chicco Keyfit 30, which is installed via LATCH on the passenger side of both cars. The front passenger seat needs to be pushed forward in both cars: uncomfortably so in, the Beetle and almost comfortably so in the 3. I am 5' 11" tall. My wife is 5' 4" tall.

We are planning to replace the Keyfit with a convertible and are wondering what will fit in both of our cars -- preferably without having to push the front passenger seats too far forward. But everything on the market in the US is so huge that nothing looks like it will fit rear facing.

I took some rough measurements over the weekend to see if the Safety 1st OnSide Air will fit and I think it might squeeze into the 3. I'm not sure on the Beetle.

I would greatly appreciate any advice. Does anyone here know what will reasonably fit rear facing in our cars?

Thanks so much in advance.

Unregistered said:

Hello,

My wife has a 2009 Beetle and I have a 2013 Mazda3 5 door. Our 16 pound 6 month old is tall and close to outgrowing his Chicco Keyfit 30, which is installed via LATCH on the passenger side of both cars. The front passenger seat needs to be pushed forward in both cars: uncomfortably so in, the Beetle and almost comfortably so in the 3. I am 5' 11" tall. My wife is 5' 4" tall.

We are planning to replace the Keyfit with a convertible and are wondering what will fit in both of our cars -- preferably without having to push the front passenger seats too far forward. But everything on the market in the US is so huge that nothing looks like it will fit rear facing.

I took some rough measurements over the weekend to see if the Safety 1st OnSide Air will fit and I think it might squeeze into the 3. I'm not sure on the Beetle.

I would greatly appreciate any advice. Does anyone here know what will reasonably fit rear facing in our cars?

Thanks so much in advance.

Click to expand...

Hi and welcome!!!

You're in good shape, b/c fortunately, measurements don't always mean that much when it comes to whether or not a car seat will fit. The geometry b/t the angles of the back seat, type of base on the convertible seat, how upright that particular seat is designed, etc, all make even the most unlikely of installations turn out fine. Also, infant seats are almost always bigger space-stealers front to back than nearly every convertible seat out there. They are designed to be more reclined than rear facing convertibles, too. You can find the exact same question as yours asked here very, very often.

In a two door car, a shallower car seat can make getting baby in and out much easier, but one of the most shallow appearing car seats can also take up a lot of room front to back (Diono Radian). It takes up less room when you can add the angle adjuster to it. The Evenflo convertibles, like the Triumph Advance/65 and the Momentum are deep enough, but still easy to get kiddos in and out of, plus tend to not take up as much room front to back. Britax convertibles are also good in this regard. I'm not a fan of the Graco My Ride, b/c i I think it takes up a LOT of room front to back, even when it's forward facing much later and it's fairly deep. It's a nice car seat otherwise. The Safety First Complete Air is an easy one in this case, b/c it's got good leg room for a longer legged toddler and it's a fairly easy in and out seat. The new Chicco Next Fit looks like a super nice seat, too. Definitely worth looking at. I think the On Side Air, Graco My Size/Size 4 Me/etc, and Evenflo Sure Ride would all work as well.

And it's important to point out that if you keep the front seats in the upright position, you'll allow more room for the rearfacing carseat in the back. And you all will be safer as well. Small kids aren't the only one at risk of slipping under the lap belt in a wreck. Adults can slide under the belt or rotate out of the shoulder belt in a wreck if they're seat is reclined. It's important for you to be a reasonable distance from the dash, too.

And I want to mention, until your child is at the weight limit w/his clothes on OR the top of his head has less than one inch of room to the top of the plastic shell of his seat, he hasn't outgrown it. Double check those things. You may have some time.

Please feel free to ask any questions you have. We're glad to help you.

henrietta said:

And I want to mention, until your child is at the weight limit w/his clothes on OR the top of his head has less than one inch of room to the top of the plastic shell of his seat, he hasn't outgrown it. Double check those things. You may have some time.

Click to expand...

The Keyfit does have a hard 30" limit, even if there is more than 1" of shell over the top of the head. Though most 6 month olds aren't at 30 inches! OP, how long is your son?

oliviacw said:

The Keyfit does have a hard 30" limit, even if there is more than 1" of shell over the top of the head. Though most 6 month olds aren't at 30 inches! OP, how long is your son?

Click to expand...

Thank you. Many seats actually do have a height limit. I can't tell you to go against manufacturer's instructions, but I would feel comfortable using most seats out there until there was 1" of shell left above their head rear facing.

For example, when my youngest was under 2 yrs old, he was extremely long torsoed. He's still a bit that way, but he's evened out a bit. In my hubby's car, he used an Alpha Omega. He was too tall to use it rear facing (head had less than one inch to the top of the shell), yet he didn't meet the minimum to forward face in the seat (34" minimum on Dorel seats, not that I wanted to forward face him) and he still hadn't hit the height limit for rear facing of 36". Children's torso heights vary quite a bit. Unless the manufacturer gives a solid reason why they think that *exact* height should be the limit, I'd personally consider it a guideline for my own children.

That said, obviously I will go and look as to why the Chicco has a "hard limit" for height on their Keyfit. I've never actually heard that regarding the Chicco Keyfit.

Many thanks to everyone for the replies and good information.

oliviacw said:

The Keyfit does have a hard 30" limit, even if there is more than 1" of shell over the top of the head. Though most 6 month olds aren't at 30 inches! OP, how long is your son?

Click to expand...

He's roughly 28 inches now -- the tallest kid in his class at the moment...

Unregistered said:

Many thanks to everyone for the replies and good information.



He's roughly 28 inches now -- the tallest kid in his class at the moment...

Click to expand...

As long as his head is one inch or more from the top of the seat's shell AND he's under the weight limit, with clothes, he still fits in the Keyfit. The height limits are more of a suggestion than an actual limit. Law requires a stated "limit", but the instructions still say until there is less than one inch above his head, he fits by height. The height "limit" is more of a guideline, b/c all kids are proportioned differently.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=215323

Thanks. I agree that he's OK for now. I'm just preparing for the day when I put him in the infant seat and say, "crud! He's too tall!"

I did a test fit of the Safety 1st On Side Air and the Chicco Nextfit thanks to my friendly local merchants. There is nooooooo way the Air will fit rear facing at the proper angle in the Mazda3 while accommodating an adult in the front passenger seat. Looks are quite deceiving.

The Nextfit will fit if I move the passenger seat a smidge further forward on the Mazda3, which puts me on driver duty for the next year and a half. It was possible to install it at the proper angle without using pool noodles. I had it installed in 3 minutes. It seems like a really nice design.

I will have to try it with the Beetle next. Hopefully it will fit. Child seat fitment was not something we thought would be a problem on cars designed to hold 4+ adults :-D

It is, I am sure, a common question here but why in the heckity hoo are child seats so large they are difficult to use for their intended purpose? The sheer bulk of them seems to encourage either improper installation (just to fit them into the car) and premature front facing installation.

Thanks for all the help so far. If I find a solution, I will post it here for posterity.

Britax convertibles don't take up much space front to back, although if your son is tall they won't last as long rear facing as a lot of other seats. I drive a Mazda5 with car seats in every seat and since Mazda requires the middle captains chairs to be all the way back for car seats I needed something that would fit in my third row which my Boulevard 70s do perfectly.

Hi there! I drive a Mazda 3, but it's a 2005. Not sure if they changed the body.

First of all, lots of rear facing convertibles are going to take up less front to back space than a key fit with the base. I opted out of any infant seat in that car partially because I thought they took up too much space. With many convertibles for a child with head control, you can install the seat more upright, and you gain a lot of room.

I'd look at the MySize, the NextFit, maybe a radian with the angle adjuster, and maybe a Britax. The britaxes fit great, but they don't last long for tall or even average kids.

You can gain a lot of room by putting the drivers seat up more, so it's less reclined. Takes a day to get used to, but it works. And a reminder, since you mentioned 4+ adults: no adult is safe in the center of the Mazda 3 since there's no headrest there. I just say it because I never would have thought of it before I started to learn about child passenger safety.

Thanks so much. It's great to hear from another Mazda3 owner.

The second generation Mazda3 was introduced in 2010. It was based on the Ford C1 platform (Just like the Ford Focus and Volvo S40). The 2013 version is still a second gen. with some revision (to the best of my knowledge). I'm not sure what changes to the floor pan occurred between 2005 and 2013. I do know it's slightly wider and longer than the first gen. models. So, if something fits in your 3, it should fit in mine

The Beetle is just really small all around. We may need to use that as 1 adult / 1 baby car until the baby is 2. Though I have seen some people on this board trying to fit something into the back seat of an Audi TT (which is the same chassis as the Beetle). That's a feat.

Another option for the Beetle, if buying multiple rear facing seats is in the cards, is to get a Combi Coccoro. It's very small (much smaller than the KeyFit with the base), but it won't get all (even most) kids to a safe forward facing age. It rear faces to 33 lbs and has a stated height limit for rear facing of 36". My baby is close enough to outgrowing it by height (the child's head must also be within 1" of the shell) at 28 lbs and 32" that I'm on the look out for when I need to switch him to his Radian. But I've been on that look out for months, so I'm still enjoying my teeny little coccoro as his growth slows down or goes into his legs or soemething.

But, if you find you want to get two seats, you could get a Coccoro for the Beetle, get something that rear faces to 40 or 45 lbs for the Mazda. Then you have two seats in two cars until the Coccoro is outgrown. When the Coccoro is outgrown, you put it in the closet and become a one car seat family until the child hits the rear facing limits on the other seat (which, for safety's sake, we would hope would be past age 4--my big kids don't make it past age 3.5, but their dad's 6'9", so we're the biggest).

My philosophy is that new seats are cheaper than new cars. So my kids will absolutely rear face to the maximum possible time, but if I have to buy them more than one seat to do that, I'm ok spending my money that way. We're balancing convenience of the whole family while continuing to put the safety of the children first.

I just had a PM asking me to chime in here. Sorry I'm late, I never check my messages. I have owned both a 2008 convertible and 2006 hardtop Beetle, I was a full time nanny for much of the 5-6 year duration of owning both vehicles. No child under 3 rides forward facing with me.

I did not fully read every post but here are some things that I picked up and would like to comment on.

The Coccoro is incompatible RFing with the Beetle because of the firm seats. I did try the recline block (it did nothing). Vera from Combi agreed that it was not a good choice for that vehicle. Also, if your 6 month old is truly outgrowing the KeyFit, the Coccoro probably wouldn't last too long.

Honestly, I don't think there was a single other seat that I did not get successfully rear facing in that vehicle, you have tons of options.

My favorites were always the Britax convertibles for ease of use and fast installations (although many more wonderful seats have come out in the last 2 years since I've owned a Beetle). My little sister rode very comfortably rear facing in a Marathon/Roundabout 50 until 3. there was always plenty of room for the driver and passenger, I am 5'7. I often used a SnugRide 35 and that took up much more room than the Britax convertibles. I always put the SnugRide behind the passenger seat but could put a Britax behind my seat no problem.

I currently drive a 2008 Jetta and have two Peg Perego convertibles. I am fairly certain that this seat would work beautifully in the Beetle and I would have fallen in love with it had been out when I owned Beetles. it seems to take up equal or less room front to back then a Britax. If anything, the seats are more slanted in the Beetle and it may take up even less room then in the Jetta. have you considered this seat?

I can't remember if you said your Beetle was a convertible or not but I wanted to add that the Graco MyRide is incompatible forward facing in the convertible. It fits beautifully rear facing but forward facing, the top where the child's head goes is far too wide and cannot be installed properly because of the way the car is designed to allow for the convertible top to be stored. There was also several inches of overhang forward facing that I was not comfortable with due to the angle of the vehicle seat. I thought I would add this detail in case you were considering the MyRide.

The Radian is compatible but if front to back room is your concern, it is definitely a no go.

If I think of anything else, I'll add it.

Can someone dig up my Beetle picture thread? I made a very extensive picture thread a few years ago with all of the seats I had successfully installed in a Beetle I am posting this from my phone and cannot find it.

I'll look for the thread for you...

And to clarify, I believe you're talking about the Marathon Classic, which is the same as the Roundabout 50 and much taller than the current Marathon 70, correct?

Yes, sorry... I didn't think to specify. I owned the Classic Marathon, Roundabout and Roundabout 50. I got rid of the Beetle right as the next generation Britax seats were emerging so I never owned one or installed one. I am confident that any of the newer ones should work really well, if not better because they seem to sit lower. The only one I'd be hesitant about would be the Advocate due to the width.

I looked for that thread all over and can't find it. Was it maybe in a non-searchable forum?

ketchupqueen said:

I looked for that thread all over and can't find it. Was it maybe in a non-searchable forum?

Click to expand...

I'm really not sure. I know someone read it fairly recently, though. Perhaps look under my name? I'll look when I'm next on my computer.

I looked through all threads started by you and didn't spot it, though it was a rather quick glance; do you remember any other details?

Bam, found it!

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=158674

It wasn't *my* thread but yeah, I feel like it should have been searchable with keywords but I guess not.

Scroll down that thread for plenty of bug pics

Thanks so much for the advice and for poking around to find the Beetle photos thread. I would not have found it myself, I don't think.

Both of our cars have advanced airbags so it is not possible for us to have a rear facing seat actually touch the front seats. Things in the back seat touching the front seats throws off the weight sensors which may lead to an incorrect deployment should the airbag ever be needed.

My current plan is to test fit the Nextfit, which mostly fit in the Mazda, and see how that works.

Many thanks

Many thanks for the advice. Here is an update.
The Britax Roundabout 50 Classic fits in the 2009 Beetle rear facing. The install is a miserable process and a towel was necessary. But once it is latched in there as tight as one can tighten, it appears to be relatively solid. There was no reasonable anchor for the tether, which is optional in rear facing configuration.

Tips:
1. Push the front passenger seat fully forward and adjust the recline to 90 degrees.
2. Configure the LATCH strap so the tightening strap is inboard, which makes tightening much easier.
3. Tape a small level to the ground line on the side of the seat. This takes the guesswork out of adjustment.
4. The 2009 Beetle has advanced airbags. Do not let the child seat touch the back of the front passenger seat. It could cause the computer to select the wrong airbag charge in a crash.
5. The easiest way to place the child in the seat is to enter the back seat from the side of the car opposite to the child seat. If you install on the passenger side, enter from the driver's side.