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Old 07-16-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
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Kiddy World Plus Preview

We ran an "unboxing" video today at CarseatBlog for a couple new child restraints from Kiddy.

http://carseatblog.com/17964/here-ki...-pro-boosters/

Kecia will have a full review of the Kiddy CruiserFix Pro at CarseatBlog very soon!

I've had the World Plus for some time, but we waited to run the video as I had some incompatibility issues that prevented me from working toward a review.

In specific, in my vehicles, the instruction that says, "The backrest of your car seat should sit right up against the vehicle seat back" implies that I cannot correctly install it in either my Toyota Prius or Highlander. For reference, the drawing in the manual that accompanies this instruction is similar in concept to what is shown in the manual for the Graco Nautilus combination seat. This can be caused by a fixed head restraint (especially when adjusted taller as with my 7-year old) or if the vehicle seat back has torso bolsters that cause it to push forward at the torso side impact features of the World Plus.

I did have an opportunity to show it to a couple forum members, JOII and momtoo3. The World Plus fit better in a previous generation Chrysler minivan, so I am going to let them share some photos and comments here. In the mean time, I have sent Carseatblog's review sample to LISMama810 for our full review that should appear later this summer, subject to compatibility issues!

Overall, the World Plus is a very interesting seat. For younger kids under 40 pounds, it operates with an energy absorbing shield system, rather than a 5-point harness. This is more common in Europe, but a similar system was used by Britax in their Laptop in the USA (and the Britax-Römer Vario in Europe). These models should NOT be confused with older shield boosters that were sold in the United States, as the shield boosters common back in the 1990s were generally not recommended.

For older kids above 40 pounds, the Kiddy Wolrd Plus operates as a typical high back booster seat.

If you personally own or have used the KWP, please feel free to add your comments and/or photos on this thread!
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:00 PM   #2
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Here's my 4 year old (27lbs 39.5") dd in our KWP.

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Old 07-16-2012, 06:15 PM   #3
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Here are my pics and thoughts on the Kiddy World Plus

2y6m, 25lbs, 35"


4y4m, 38lbs, 39"


Pros: great fit, easy to get tight on child.
One less step compared to a five point harness. With a five point you have to properly install the seat, then properly harness the child, with this there is only one step, tighten shield. I think any parent could do it properly, it was essy to get right, and get tight.
I can't see anyway a child could get out of position, I know there was talk of an accident going around about a child out of position dying, but I can't see how that would happen.
I liked the height adjustment pad for smaller kids so all size children could get a good fit. Worked very well with my two year old (she is shown with the pad folded twice above.)
It seemed safe for younger kids who should be RF, if they happen to be FF, 1-2 y/o age group.
Liked that the belt was 'locked in' in the shoulder belt guide in booster mode, and could not slip out.


Cons: flat against seat back rule (which I believe was for both modes)
didn't like the tall back piece that sticks out, just looked kind of sloppy.
didn't like where the tether was stored, made compatibility worse.
didn't understand why manual told you to install and tighten the seat with latch first, no reason to do so and might confuse most people, it confused us for a bit
Didn't like that the seat was only easy for the passenger side of the car, because the latch buckle was on the right side of the seat. Made it very hard to buckle when on the drivers side, either because you had to reach all the way around a pretty large seat, or if it was next to a seat in the middle you had to try and buckle between the two seats. Wonder if there could be a way to flip the buckle to be on either side on future models



You can see here, how it isnt compatible, not flat. The tether storage pouch is located where the white piece is behind the head rest, dead center with my vehicles head rest, so it pushed it even further away from the seat back, especially if the tether wasnt in use and stored in the pouch (not sure of the tether rules for this seat off the top of my head).


Over all, I do like the seat, however it was incompatible my car, which I have yet to find a seat that is, so this could be a common problem. Though I like the concept, I don't think it will be a popular choice, mostly because the common parent won't really "get" it, and I think most people are not gonna see a reason to buy this over a five point. I wouldn't mind owning one (if it fit my car), but again, I don't really see a need, when my five point seats work just fine. I think it would be great for smaller FFers, but the average parent who FFs a smaller kid wont know/understand the seat, and most knowledgeable parents who would consider the seat, keep their smaller kids RF, so they would have no need for it. I can't see either group buying the seat in droves or anything. Might be good for the occasional older skinny child who is under 40lbs and FF (like my son was/is, he was under 40lbs till 6.5 y/o). I liked it more than I didn't, but it's just not something I can find the need to buy.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #4
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Oh, forgot to add a video Darren took my me "installing" my 2.5 year old in the seat

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Old 07-16-2012, 06:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOII
Here are my pics and thoughts on the Kiddy World Plus

2y6m, 25lbs, 35"

4y4m, 38lbs, 39"

Pros: great fit, easy to get tight on child.
One less step compared to a five point harness. With a five point you have to properly install the seat, then properly harness the child, with this there is only one step, tighten shield. I think any parent could do it properly, it was essy to get right, and get tight.
I can't see anyway a child could get out of position, I know there was talk of an accident going around about a child out of position dying, but I can't see how that would happen.
I liked the height adjustment pad for smaller kids so all size children could get a good fit. Worked very well with my two year old (she is shown with the pad folded twice above.)
It seemed safe for younger kids who should be RF, if they happen to be FF, 1-2 y/o age group.
Liked that the belt was 'locked in' in the shoulder belt guide in booster mode, and could not slip out.

Cons: flat against seat back rule (which I believe was for both modes)
didn't like the tall back piece that sticks out, just looked kind of sloppy.
didn't like where the tether was stored, made compatibility worse.
didn't understand why manual told you to install and tighten the seat with latch first, no reason to do so and might confuse most people, it confused us for a bit
Didn't like that the seat was only easy for the passenger side of the car, because the latch buckle was on the right side of the seat. Made it very hard to buckle when on the drivers side, either because you had to reach all the way around a pretty large seat, or if it was next to a seat in the middle you had to try and buckle between the two seats. Wonder if there could be a way to flip the buckle to be on either side on future models

You can see here, how it isnt compatible, not flat. The tether storage pouch is located where the white piece is behind the head rest, dead center with my vehicles head rest, so it pushed it even further away from the seat back, especially if the tether wasnt in use and stored in the pouch (not sure of the tether rules for this seat off the top of my head).

Over all, I do like the seat, however it was incompatible my car, which I have yet to find a seat that is, so this could be a common problem. Though I like the concept, I don't think it will be a popular choice, mostly because the common parent won't really "get" it, and I think most people are not gonna see a reason to buy this over a five point. I wouldn't mind owning one (if it fit my car), but again, I don't really see a need, when my five point seats work just fine. I think it would be great for smaller FFers, but the average parent who FFs a smaller kid wont know/understand the seat, and most knowledgeable parents who would consider the seat, keep their smaller kids RF, so they would have no need for it. I can't see either group buying the seat in droves or anything. Might be good for the occasional older skinny child who is under 40lbs and FF (like my son was/is, he was under 40lbs till 6.5 y/o). I liked it more than I didn't, but it's just not something I can find the need to buy.
Im pretty sure there is a way to switch the side of the latch buckle but I think it involved several steps. I am out and do not have access to the manual right now though.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOII
Oh, forgot to add a video Darren took my me "installing" my 2.5 year old in the seat

Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxLFRQbKkQs
She's so cute! Interesting seat.

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Old 07-16-2012, 06:58 PM   #7
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In light of the recent booster support discussions a couple months back, what is Kiddy's stance on head support? Can you use the seat in a position that has no head restraint?

I'm not sure I understand compatibility issue. So the seat has to be 100% flat against the vehicle seat? Is that similar to Diono's "no open space" rule with the Monterey?
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:33 PM   #8
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarynsmum View Post
In light of the recent booster support discussions a couple months back, what is Kiddy's stance on head support? Can you use the seat in a position that has no head restraint?

I'm not sure I understand compatibility issue. So the seat has to be 100% flat against the vehicle seat? Is that similar to Diono's "no open space" rule with the Monterey?
I don't know dionos rule, but I think it's the same, see the manual, page 13/14, fg.s 9 and 10? They do say you can remove the head rest if it interferes, but I think another company says the same thing, but says you have to have head support.

http://www.kiddy.de/blog/us/files/20...S_ENGL-web.pdf
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:40 PM   #9
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Here's my son. Hes 2y3m, 36" tall an 31 lbs

Attachment 17430
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:02 PM   #10
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Here is ds3 in the KWP from the same day as JOII when we met with Darren. He was right at 30 pounds and about 37.5 inches. The first 3 are with the seat pad removed. The last 2 are with the pad in unfolded but in place. I believe it said to use it unfolded from 25-30 pounds and then take it out. We tried it both ways since he was right at 30 pounds.








Overall I really liked the seat and how it fit in my van and how ds3 fit. It was installed without the headrest on the seat of my van. Ds3 was not as happy with the shield as he was when we tried out Darren's FR85 SICT. I just showed him the pictures and he said "no, I want the red seat with the cup holders." That may be because he doesn't like to be confined (minor sensory issues) or because ds2 has a red Vivo and he wants to be like his brother. He is also very insistent on cup holders.
The 2 cons that I saw were
1. The directions telling you to tighten the seat with the LATCH strap before putting a child in it and then having to loosen it back up to fit the child
2. The piece that sticks up above the headrest (the one the headrest slides on) because it is strange looking and blocks the view out of the back window. I could see the kids that climb into the 3rd row pulling on it as they pass through.

I am not sure that I would buy one for ds3 if he had liked it more just because of the price. With the shield only being able to be used until 40 pounds, it may not be the best to recommend for average/large sized kiddos. While ds3 would fit well, he is on the small side and an average sized child may outgrow the shield before being booster ready.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:41 AM   #11
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarynsmum View Post
In light of the recent booster support discussions a couple months back, what is Kiddy's stance on head support? Can you use the seat in a position that has no head restraint?

I'm not sure I understand compatibility issue. So the seat has to be 100% flat against the vehicle seat? Is that similar to Diono's "no open space" rule with the Monterey?
They do not require head support behind the seat. I e-mailed them about it when the whole Recaro thing came up.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:56 AM   #12
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

I wasn't a carseatblog tester but I thought I'd share our KWP pictures. I bought ours as soon as it was released. My oldest uses it as a booster.



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Old 07-17-2012, 09:58 AM   #13
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

According to the description this seat is approved by TÜV for use in aircraft. (That's a German regulatory body that approves seats for use in aircraft like the FAA does in the US.) This is very exciting to me because when I lived in Europe there wasn't a single forward-facing seat currently on the market that was approved for use in aircraft. Can anybody check for me and see if there is actually a TÜV sticker on the US version of the seat?
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalMama
According to the description this seat is approved by TÜV for use in aircraft. (That's a German regulatory body that approves seats for use in aircraft like the FAA does in the US.) This is very exciting to me because when I lived in Europe there wasn't a single forward-facing seat currently on the market that was approved for use in aircraft. Can anybody check for me and see if there is actually a TÜV sticker on the US version of the seat?
I don't have it (yet) but I doubt it would have a foreign designation on it. But will the EU (or whoever) accept FAA certification? Here, the FAA allows seats that meet other countries' regulations.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:06 AM   #15
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

As far as ”out of position”- that discussion was because Kiddy said a sleeping child leaning forward onto the shield would be oop. That sounds pretty easy to do to me, not unlikely at all. Also, there was concern about multiple-impact crashes, especially with rollover. Those were the concerns at the heart of the discussion.

I do see this as a possible solution for people who want a combination seat that goes from younger child to booster without uninstalling!
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:08 AM   #16
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISmama810 View Post
I don't have it (yet) but I doubt it would have a foreign designation on it. But will the EU (or whoever) accept FAA certification? Here, the FAA allows seats that meet other countries' regulations.
Yep, there's not a unifying rule but when I've read policies they've all said ”or equivalent certification from another government” or similar language.
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:08 PM   #17
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISmama810 View Post
I don't have it (yet) but I doubt it would have a foreign designation on it. But will the EU (or whoever) accept FAA certification? Here, the FAA allows seats that meet other countries' regulations.
Most airlines will, but some domestic European airlines that I have flown with will not. I flew with a German carrier once that would *only* accept seats with the TÜV certification. (Luckily at the time DS1 still fit in an infant seat!) It looks like that is still GermanWing's policy. I'm happy to see they have updated their list of accepted seats to include the German seats by Kiddy! Although *not* the KWP.

ETA: Here is where I read that it is certified by the TÜV, but it does make sense to me that it wouldn't be able to be so I don't know why it says that. Perhaps the description is just copied and pasted from the German? But the German website says the German ones are, so I guess that's still exciting if they are appropriately labeled to that effect.

ETA Again: Interestingly, EasyJet, a popular European budget airline, says this on their website re: carseats: "The seat and its harness must be designed so your child can easily and quickly be secured or removed from it. The harness must be a minimum of 1 inch / 2.5 cm wide and the car seat must be rigid and forward facing." So I wonder if they would accept the KWP even if it *is* approved by the FAA & TÜV.

Sorry for the multiple edits. Since there is probably limited interest in this topic I didn't want to create multiple posts.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:24 PM   #18
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

I used a Britax Laptop frequently for my kids and had no concerns at all regarding the safety of this type of system. Of course, it was also significantly less expensive and easier to use than the KWP. So easy, in fact, it was an ideal seat for for my mom to use correctly.

People were fearful of the Laptop when it was first introduced, also, especially with the concern over shield boosters that were still on the market at that time. It took some time but ended up being a great niche seat. I think the KWP has similar potential, and like every product on the market, should be very safe when used correctly. Obviously, as have been mentioned already, there are a number of quirks and we really have very limited data with a restraint of this type in the USA.

Of course, there are always misuse concerns, as with any product. Is anybody aware of any major concerns from markets in Europe where restraints of this type have been marketed for years? That's a great piece of information to have, because usually with innovation someone has to use it first. Unlike cell phones, a safety device isn't always the thing that you want to be the first to try. Of course, without innovation, we'd still be using old-style shield boosters, and worse.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:36 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InternationalMama
ETA Again: Interestingly, EasyJet, a popular European budget airline, says this on their website re: carseats: "The seat and its harness must be designed so your child can easily and quickly be secured or removed from it. The harness must be a minimum of 1 inch / 2.5 cm wide and the car seat must be rigid and forward facing." So I wonder if they would accept the KWP even if it *is* approved by the FAA & TÜV.
I have no idea about Europe, but in the US, airline websites and customer service personnel (and gate agents/flight crews) are notoriously incorrect about car seat stuff. Like, I could easily see a US airline putting something like that on their website, but it holds no water because FAA regs trump whatever crap airlines want to think they can enforce.

Doesn't the EU have some kind of overarching aviation authority? I would look at what they say rather than what an individual airline says.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #20
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Re: Kiddy World Plus Preview

Quote:
Originally Posted by CPSDarren View Post
I used a Britax Laptop frequently for my kids and had no concerns at all regarding the safety of this type of system. Of course, it was also significantly less expensive and easier to use than the KWP. So easy, in fact, it was an ideal seat for for my mom to use correctly.

People were fearful of the Laptop when it was first introduced, also, especially with the concern over shield boosters that were still on the market at that time. It took some time but ended up being a great niche seat. I think the KWP has similar potential, and like every product on the market, should be very safe when used correctly. Obviously, as have been mentioned already, there are a number of quirks and we really have very limited data with a restraint of this type in the USA.

Of course, there are always misuse concerns, as with any product. Is anybody aware of any major concerns from markets in Europe where restraints of this type have been marketed for years? That's a great piece of information to have, because usually with innovation someone has to use it first. Unlike cell phones, a safety device isn't always the thing that you want to be the first to try. Of course, without innovation, we'd still be using old-style shield boosters, and worse.
All I'm aware of is that while they claim they outperform rear-facing seats, when we read the document they provided to back that up, they did not appear to outperform rear-facing seats in any crash test criterion, and they in fact fared worse than forward-facing harnesses on most.

I don't know where one would find such data, and unfortunately I am not fluent in any other languages to go search out international news articles that might provide information on any instances of failure, if they exist. Maybe someone can, though.

I don't think this is necessarily unsafe. I do think that in certain types of crash, a five-point harness would be more beneficial, potentially. I also think there may be types of crashes (and there are certainly children with medical conditions) for which the shield would be more beneficial.

Other than that I just really wish they had rated it to more than 40 lbs. with the shield, since almost any child can now rear-face to 40 lbs. so the number of children who would ideally be using this seat rather than rear-facing would be pretty small.
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