Question Upper tether anchor bracket for Acura Integra 3-door

Hello all! New guy here on car-seat.org

I just bought a Cosco Scenera 40RF seat for my 1994 Acura Integra 3-door coupe. This is a "secondary" car seat, as my son primarily rides in a Graco MyRide 65 in my wife's Toyota Corolla. The Scenera will be used only seldom, when necessary, as we definitely don't want to be switching that rather large Graco between cars, especially mine with only 2 doors.

Anyway, I just ordered a top tether strap anchor bracket for the Corolla from a Toyota parts website. I'd like to order a similar bracket for my Integra, as I really don't feel comfortable using this seat without it. I'm already having to use the seat belt bracket piece that came with the car seat due to my seat belts not locking when pulled all the way out (the Corolla's does). My owner's manual states there is (or was) one available that bolts in the rear bulkhead, just below the tail lights, but the manual does not give a part number. It says to write to Acura Customer Relations (this was back before the interwebs lol).

I saw another post on here about someone with a 1991 Legend and someone listed part number 82410-SE3-C01 "Plate Assembly" which I can get for 8 bucks. I just wanted to verify if this is the correct part. The bolt hole on my rear bulkhead is a 8mm x 1.25 hole, which incidentally is the same size as the bolt hole for the anchor in the Corolla.

*clap clap* That's it!

However, since you mention you got a 40 pound rear facing Scenera, I wanted to make sure you know that you don't use the tethers rear facing. Depending on how old your child is, it may be years before the top tethers are necessary.

Wendy

So you can install your own top tether anchors?

I need another in our Acura (back up car) and I hate to pay another $70 for it if I can safely do it myself.

christi2705 said:

So you can install your own top tether anchors?

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Usually. If there are predrilled holes, definitely. You just need to pop through the fabric covering them and screw them in. If you don't have holes predrilled then it's best to have someone who knows what they're doing, where things are on your car, and a big drill to make them for you.

In an Acura you can easily do it yourself. Check your manual (car's manual). Honda manuals include directions, so I would assume an Acura's does as well.

Wendy

wendytthomas said:

*clap clap* That's it!

However, since you mention you got a 40 pound rear facing Scenera, I wanted to make sure you know that you don't use the tethers rear facing. Depending on how old your child is, it may be years before the top tethers are necessary.

Wendy

Click to expand...

Both of our car seats are forward facing. Rear-facing convertible seats physically do not fit in either of our cars. So yes we will be using the top tether on both seats in both cars.

I certainly wouldn't pay anyone $70 to install a simple bolt anchor. The anchor itself is less than $10, and in the Corolla I just cut through the carpeting on the rear deck, or through the plastic trim panel in the marked location on my Integra. Then it's a simple matter of torquing the bolt to the specified amount as listed in the car owners' manual.

I noticed Canadian vehicles are required to supply these anchors when the car is first purchased new. Would be nice if US cars were the same way.

PS is there anything in here that can help me with the lingo I've seen on these boards? I get FF, RF, but not sure about EFTA, DH, DD, etc.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=9550 That'll help with the abbreviations.

How old and heavy is your child? If they're too old to rear face (3-4 years old), I wouldn't buy a convertible. If they're young enough to rear face (under 3-4), I would, and rear face them. You don't need the line level to the ground, if that helps. You can put it far more upright, as upright as 30 degrees.

I've put a convertible rear facing in a 2000 Porsche 911. I bet you can fit one in an Integra.

Wendy

Thanks for the abbreviations link. Why nothing like DW Darling Wife or LL Lovely Wife? Not too many men on this forum I guess?

Our son just turned 1 on 28 December and is 23 lbs. Both of our seats have a level indicator for RF and both of them just simply will not fit in our smaller cars when at the proper angle. I would love to keep our child RF longer, in somewhat larger vehicles, but that just isn't an option for us.

You say the seats can be tilted up somewhat. How much? Is there any documentation supporting such a practice? I have never heard of this. If there is no evidence of manufacturer support of raising the seat angle in RF configuration, there's no way I'm going to try something like that.

PatrickGSR94 said:

Thanks for the abbreviations link. Why nothing like DW Darling Wife or LL Lovely Wife? Not too many men on this forum I guess?

Click to expand...

DW is used, but you're right, most of us are female.

Our son just turned 1 on 28 December and is 23 lbs. Both of our seats have a level indicator for RF and both of them just simply will not fit in our smaller cars when at the proper angle. I would love to keep our child RF longer, in somewhat larger vehicles, but that just isn't an option for us.

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Honest, it is. Ignore the level indicator is what I'm saying. That line is for a newborn, not a child with head control. And in fact, it's safer for a child to be more upright when older. If I can put a seat in a Porsche 911, and ride in front of it, you can fit one in an Integra.

You say the seats can be tilted up somewhat. How much? Is there any documentation supporting such a practice? I have never heard of this. If there is no evidence of manufacturer support of raising the seat angle in RF configuration, there's no way I'm going to try something like that.

Click to expand...

Yup. So if you're looking at it from the passenger side, you can have it as upright as 1 o'clock on a clock face. 1:30 is the newborn angle. I don't think Dorel has anything in their manuals, but other seats (Graco, Britax, Learning Curve) have range indicators saying what range is acceptable. It's usually 30-45 degrees (Learning Curve True Fit is 35-45 for some reason). Britax states in their manuals that 30-45 degrees is fine. Seats with simply a line on the side don't really have that range ability. They just have one line.

Here's my 15.5 month old this week.



I don't know the number of her angle, but I do know it's far more upright than 45 degrees. I'd like to take her up to the 35 allowed for that seat. She's still a bit reclined, I think. But it's also not a big deal. I'm short and drive an SUV (my front seat isn't pushed up to take the picture, that's where I need to sit to reach the clutch).

Here was her seat installed for her before she was born. You can see it takes up more space.



And her seat's level indicator showing the different ranges. X is overreclined, 1 is newborn, 2 is toddler (and it showed toddler for her before she was born even though my level app showed a solid 45 degrees on a flat surface).



Wendy

Neither the My Ride 65 nor the Scenera manuals say anything about using them RF at any other angle than the one prescribed for newborns. The MR has the little ball indicator, with a narrow green stripe barely wider than the ball itself, and everything says the ball must be in that area when the car is on level ground.

I see nothing anywhere about installing either seat RF at any other angle. The flip-out "feet" on the MR would definitely get the angle higher, but the manual definitely doesn't say anything about that. I'm just not comfortable installing the seats in a way not prescribed by the manufacturer.

Then I would get different seats so I could rear face him longer. A Britax, for instance, or a Learning Curve True Fit Premier or Recline. Simple. At his age forward facing is far from the best option.

Wendy

RF isn't really an option for us in our current situation...

We kept him in the infant carrier RF for as long as possible, and it barely fit in the Corolla with enough room in the seat in front for us to ride in (my wife and I are both fairly tall).

Well, I'll say it again. An upright convertible (which is allowed) will take up less or equal room than an infant seat. If you won't set the Scenera or My Ride more upright, then I'd return them and get something else.

Otherwise, I'm glad you're getting tethers installed since they are SO important for a premature forward facer.

Wendy

If your child is not 34", he cannot forward-face in the Scenera.

Is there any crash test data for RF seats oriented more upright? It seems to me an upright RF seat would be more dangerous in a rear-end crash than would a FF seat in a somewhat reclined position (as both of ours are) in a front end crash.

Quite the opposite. First, rear facing is much safer in any crash other than a rear collision (and those account for 4% of serious collisions). At any age, for any crash, at any recline.

Then, rear facing while more upright is safer than reclined. The 45 degree angle is a concession to newborns, who cannot hold their heads up. They'd prefer to lay flat. That's not safe in a car, though, so we put them at a 45 degree angle, and put them more upright and safer as they have head control.

In a frontal collision rear facing, you want the spine to move as one unit. To do that best, it's pretty much straight up and down. Then the spine moves forward, then rebounds, all together.

With a 45 degree angle or more, what happens is the vertebrae move each. It's still safer than forward facing, but it's less safe (I don't know by how much) than more upright. You end up with more of an accordian, with each vertebrae moving forward and rebounding from a slightly different position, then collapsing back. Like an accordian. They stretch and then collapse.

Like I said, we make this concession for newborns. It's a question of safe but not safEST spinal position but a crash is unlikely, or the very likely problem of their chins slumping to their chests and cutting off their airway if they're too upright.

Carseats are playing to the odds. The safest way to ride for 96% of collisions for 100% of passengers are rear facing. Adults have an ossified skeleton at adult strength going for them, and it's rather difficult to drive rear facing. So we don't sit that way. For grade schoolers and preteens (who have an ossified skeleton but not adult strength) we put them in the backseat (here in WA it's law) until about 13, or puberty. For preschoolers we have them riding in harnesses, usually forward facing, but rear facing is safer still. They have mostly, but not completely, ossified skeletons. So depending on their size they can ride forward, but rear facing is best. For a one year old or an infant, rear facing is the absolute safest way to travel. Their skeleton is not ossified at all, and of course it's not adult strength. Their spinal column runs through their spine, and those bones can move up to two inches. The spinal column can move only up to 1/2". That's why when you read news articles about car crashes you hear that the mom was banged up, the older sister has a broken arm, and the two year old died of a neck injury. There are many documented cases of kids suffering internal decapitation, most not surviving, some surviving.



On the left is a vertebrae of a one year old. You can see it's still in three pieces. The right is a six year old's. It's all together, but not yet at adult strength.

http://www.freewebs.com/sacredjourneys/newbornpreschool.htm

Wendy

For a child your son's age, rear-facing is 500% safer than forward-facing. If there is any disadvantage to being more upright rear-facing (and there's no reason to believe there is), it would be much much MUCH smaller than the disadvantage of forward-facing.

Also we can't afford a $200-$300 car seat. My MIL graciously bought us the MR 65 after putting it on layaway, and I can only afford up to about $100 for a seat for the Integra. Are there any seats that can go RF upright (per manufacturer's direction) for $100 or less?

I hope to have a slightly larger 4 door car one day (we hate SUV's and minivans in our family) but until we have the cash for one, the Corolla and Integra will have to suffice.

I definitely agree with all the RF info that everyone else already provided, but I just wanted to add that you can call your local Acura dealer and a lot of times they'll have the tether anchor in stock, they're around $10. I ordered one for a customer in our shop a few weeks ago for a 97 Integra.

Please continue discussion of our RF seats in this thread, which show pics of our seats rear facing in our cars for comment: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=153660

Mods please close this thread as the original question was answered.