How risky is it to. . .

[kellihope]

turn a 17 month old forward facing for a long car ride? In June we will be driving from VT to Maryland for a graduation and visiting friends and family. We drive a Subaru Impreza hatchback and my dd has a RF myride which currently sits behind the passenger seat. When my husband drives and I'm passenger, I have to sit pretty scrunched up (I'm 5'10") and as I am currently pregnant, by the time June rolls around my belly is going to prevent me from riding 10 hours all scrunched like that. We were all stressed out trying to figure out what we can do to make the ride better when it dawned on me that if her seat was FF there would be a LOT more room. She could even ride behind my husband's seat and I could lay mine right down if it was FF.

My daughter's a pretty big girl, she's 22lbs right now and over 30". . .so by June she should be, what, 25ish lbs?

Would it be stupid to risk turning her for this trip or do you think she's big enough that it would be all right?

Thanks so much!
Kelli

[ketchupqueen]

YOu don't get to choose when you're in a crash, or what kind of crash, or how hard.

Being in the car for that long INCREASES your risk because the more you're in the car, the more opportunities.

It's not about how big she is-- it's about spinal development. At her age it would be an EXTREME risk.

Also, you should not lay your seat down while driving-- that's extremely dangerous to YOU as an adult passenger.

I would consider sitting in the back with her, instead, which might give you more room and let you keep her RF.

[HONEYhas3]

What about trying to install the seat more upright??

Pull the seat out from the bight about an inch, then have your DH stand behind the seat, push down on the area of the seat where her feet are, and use his belly, hips to help push it in tight, while you tighten the belt/LATCH(which ever you are using).

What about installing it in the center, more upright, with the front passanger seat all the way up and you in the rear passanger side.

I would not turn a 17 mo FF.

[kellihope]

Well. . .if it's any more upright then the little ball isn't in the orange anymore. . know what I mean? The little thing on the side of the seat that tells you if the seat is in right? The way it is now it's just barely entirely in the orange.

We used to have her seat in the center, and that gives me in the passenger seat just a touch more room, less than an inch maybe? But the seat is wide enough that it doesn't give a ton of room next to it, so being a bigger, pregnant gal I don't think I would fit very comfortably there either. . .That is how we used to do long rides though when she was in the SafeSeat, we'd push the passenger seat all the way forward, take the headrest off (so it wouldn't block my view) and I'd ride back with her. I just think I'll be too big to do it again. . but maybe.

[Maedze]

In short, very risky. A 17 month old simply doesn't belong in a forward facing seat. It's a very, very dangerous thing to do.

Don't worry about the indicator. Measure the angle. It can be as upright as 30 degrees.


I would put the seat as upright as you can in the middle, or I would put it rear facing behind the front passenger seat and you can sit in the back behind the driver's seat.

Under no circumstances would I suggest turning the seat around.

[TechnoGranola]

The ball has to be entirely in the GREEN area when she is IN the seat. So, if it's a tad in the red on the left edge, as long as it goes into the green when she's in the seat, then it's fine.

FF doesn't always give you as much room as you think. Remember that she will be sitting much more forward than an adult would due to her carseat, and then she needs room for her legs too.

[kellihope]

ok. . .just to be devil's advocate here though. . .tons of kids get turned around at 12months, the pediatricians tell the parents it's ok to do it.

I *am* a believer in RF, the reason we got the myride was to keep her RF longer. . .I guess. . I just, I mean, are there some stats I can look at or something about rf vs. ff accidents and injuries?

[ketchupqueen]

Pediatricians who say that are going on old, bad information. And children ARE injured who are FF too young. One such story here.

Again, you don't get to choose when or how severe of a crash you may be in. What you CAN control is having your child in the safest seat possible. If the MR is too big for you to sit in front of for such a long trip, what about getting a Scenera and putting it in the middle for this trip? It might fit better there, and they are cheap.

HEre is a nice post with links on ERF.

[ntrenary]

In addition to being safer she'd also be more comfortable RFing on a long car ride because she'll be able to sleep better.
Can you borrow a shorter seat for the trip? Or buy one then return it after the trip? I had a Maxi Cosi Priori and it was the only seat that was short enough to allow the front passenger seat to move all the way back.

[kellihope]

Originally Posted by ketchupqueen

what about getting a Scenera and putting it in the middle for this trip? It might fit better there, and they are cheap.

wow, they are cheap! I just googled it. Let me read up on it a bit.

[bree]

Originally Posted by kellihope

ok. . .just to be devil's advocate here though. . .tons of kids get turned around at 12months, the pediatricians tell the parents it's ok to do it.

I *am* a believer in RF, the reason we got the myride was to keep her RF longer. . .I guess. . I just, I mean, are there some stats I can look at or something about rf vs. ff accidents and injuries?

Yes, there are stats. Children your daughter's age are more than 500% more likely to be seriously injured or killed when forward-facing. You can read the study where I got those numbers here or a shorter explanation of the study here. This link here has good explanations with links about rear-facing.

Pediatricians should be following the advice of their own AAP from as far back as 2002 and telling parents to rear-face to the limits of their convertibles.

If you want to put a face to the dangers of rear-facing children too early, you can read about the severe injuries suffered by a forward-facing 18 month old named Joel here.

ETA: Sorry, I was typing while others posted.

[ntrenary]

Scenera's have no padding, so it might not be great for a long trip. But, I've never used one so that's just my opinion.

[kellihope]

anyone have ideas of other seats that would take up less room? I didn't think of that route, since she wont be super tall or heavy she could be in a different seat than she has (one reason we bought the myride was so she could stay RF the longest, but maybe a seat with smaller weight/height restrictions would fit better)

[ntrenary]

I think the Cocorro (sp?) is a short seat that was made to fit RFing in small cars.

[mommy-medic]

One more vote for RFing the 17 month old and having you ride in the back as well. It's simply the safest option. As others have said, you can't predict when or if you will be in a wreck, but you can make you and your family as safe as possible for all the "just in case" scenarios. (K mart has Sceneras for $35 right now online too!). Hopefully, you won't be in a wreck and nothing will happen, BUT, if something bad does happen, wouldn't you rather be saying "wow I am so glad we....." instead of "boy do I really wish we hadn't..."?

[joolsplus3]

Evenflo Titan is pretty cushy and smaller than the My Ride

[niccig]

We did a 2 day road trip when DS was 6 months old. We had one driver and one in the back with DS - he needed to be handed things. When he fell asleep, we would stop and the passenger would get back up front. In your case, it's a 10 hour straight drive?? with stops for gas and food? I would ride in back with her. Forward facing OR rear-facing, she's going to want to be handed things - snacks, sippy, toys...and it's easier to interact and occupy if you're sitting beside her.

[kellihope]

is the scenera narrow or just shorter or both?

[kellihope]

Originally Posted by niccig

We did a 2 day road trip when DS was 6 months old. We had one driver and one in the back with DS - he needed to be handed things. When he fell asleep, we would stop and the passenger would get back up front. In your case, it's a 10 hour straight drive?? with stops for gas and food? I would ride in back with her. Forward facing OR rear-facing, she's going to want to be handed things - snacks, sippy, toys...and it's easier to interact and occupy if you're sitting beside her.

it's 10 hours of driving, not counting stops.

[littleangelfire]

Originally Posted by ntrenary

In addition to being safer she'd also be more comfortable RFing on a long car ride because she'll be able to sleep better.
Can you borrow a shorter seat for the trip? Or buy one then return it after the trip? I had a Maxi Cosi Priori and it was the only seat that was short enough to allow the front passenger seat to move all the way back.

Intentionally purchasing a car seat to use it and return it is dishonest, unethical, and since many stores are required to throw a used car seat in the dumpster - very wasteful. Not something I'd recommend.

Originally Posted by ntrenary

Scenera's have no padding, so it might not be great for a long trip. But, I've never used one so that's just my opinion.

They don't have much padding - but as is oft quoted around here - none of the kids in them seem to mind a bit. If padding is an issue - try a Safety 1st Avenue, or scour Big Lots for an uptown. OP -if you're going to have a need for a second seat anyways, you could get a True Fit - low profile seat, no base, so would take up less room. Especially when installed more upright. And ditto what Maedze said - ignore the indicator. They're not always accurate anyway depending upon the slope of your vehicle seat.

I would not turn a 17 month old forward facing, regardless of size, but 22lbs is pretty small for a 17 month old, at that. Especially considering if its a long trip it probably involves lots of highway miles? Faster speeds, more risk of injury, would not be worth it to me. And I third or fourth the suggestion that you sit in the back, too. That would solve all the problems.

[niccig]

Originally Posted by kellihope

it's 10 hours of driving, not counting stops.

I think you're going to end up in the back seat to occupy your DD, hand her things regardless of how she's sitting in the car...RF is safer, but will also be more comfortable for her...easier to go to sleep without head dangling about.

[TechnoGranola]

Originally Posted by littleangelfire

OP -if you're going to have a need for a second seat anyways, you could get a True Fit - low profile seat, no base, so would take up less room. Especially when installed more upright.

I've go a MR in 2 different vehicles that I previously had 2 TFs in. The front vehicle seats are in the exact same position they were with the TF and the MR fits in the same space. In one vehicle I actually get a tad more recline than I did with the TF in the same space (TF @ 35° as measured by digital angle finder, MR slightly greater than that). Vehicle fit can change things of course, but I wouldn't expect a TF with headrest to take up less room than a MR.

Originally Posted by littleangelfire

And ditto what Maedze said - ignore the indicator. They're not always accurate anyway depending upon the slope of your vehicle seat.

Again, my experience, so take it with a grain of salt if you wish, but both my MR indicators are quite accurate. The ball at the left edge of green is bang on 30° in two different vehicles with 2 different styles of seats.

[ketchupqueen]

My daughter rode in a RF Scenera as a primary seat for almost 2 years, and she was plenty comfy in it. RFing is inherently comfier, IMO, as well as safer! The Scenera is also narrower. The Titan, as mentioned, is also small and padded and cheap-ish, but it's neither as cheap nor as tall and will not last as long. (I think it might not also be quite as narrow.) The Avenue is another good choice though again not as cheap.

I would have no hesitations putting a kid in the middle RFing in a Scenera if the other option was FF in the MyRide.

[snowbird25ca]

The MR actually is quite a compact rf'ing convertible seat. I would work towards compressing it more in to the back of the vehicle seat when you tighten up the belt or LATCH belt to see what happens there. It is definitely going to take up less room than the Titan - I find the design of the Titan just doesn't make it very friendly in terms of the front to back space it takes up.

I've had the MR in the back of a MAzda 3 sport with room for front passengers to be comfortable, so I'm sure it's doable.

And I'm with Techno. I absolutely would not ignore the indicator on the My Ride. It has a wide range that basically creates anywhere from 30* to 45* while still staying within the green and once you get outside of that, then you're either too upright or too reclined - but it is important to check angle with the child in the seat. The manual very explicitly states to check the angle with the child in the seat. It's possible this may change how upright you can have the seat.

As others have said, I wouldn't turn a 17mo old ff'ing for a long trip. If anything I keep my kids rf'ing a little longer than planned if I know a long trip is coming up. Kids do die due to ff'ing early. It may not be all over the news, but it happens. There was an 18mo old in the city here who died of a broken spinal cord a few years back. I know speaking for myself personally, that if the 1 trip I crashed was the 1 trip I had turned my kiddo ff'ing and that kiddo was injured, I would forever blame myself.

Someone else mentioned her needing leg room ff'ing as well, and I just wanted to touch on this as well. One of our vehicles is a Saturn Astra - really compact. My dh is a big guy, and while he can fit in the passenger seat, it's not comfortable for trips longer than an hour. He remarked the other day that he was looking forward to my ds ff'ing because he'd be able to have his seat back further. To which I told him that no, he would not be able to because ds will need that room for head excursion and leg excursion. Head injury or broken leg due to impacting the front seat back is something I'm going to reduce the risk of as much as possible once he's ff'ing, and that means that I will not allow a front passenger to have that seat pushed further back than it is right now. Just because a kid isn't killed doesn't mean they haven't suffered life-changing injuries. (And as a side point, I'm considering keeping ds rf'ing longer in our car simply to keep that risk of leg and head injury at an absolute minimum. Given that leg injuries are a full 25% of all ff'ing injuries, I'm going to do what I can to prevent that with the car having such a small passenger space...)

[Athena]

That is a really difficult situation. We are a tall family and have a similar vehicle so I really feel for you. I worry a lot about my husband being too close to the dash/airbag. IMO, it is important for your entire family to be safe and it sounds like, especially being pregnant, it may be about more than just comfort, but about you and the new baby who is traveling in your belly being safe as well. Is there any way you could rent a larger vehicle for the trip? I think that is what I would try to do in your situation. I understand how expensive that is though and really do feel for you. Good luck! I hope you have a wonderful trip.