Fixing up an old vehicle for hauling kids

Kellyr2

New member
Okay, so my mom has this problem. She usually drives a Tahoe, a 5 seater version. She likes to get all the grandkids sometimes, but obviously, can't fit 4 kids 7 and under in her vehicle. This past week was her "Grandma Camp" and the either took two cars everywhere or borrowed a friend's Suburban.
For next year, she's wanting to get my dad to fix up their old VW van. Its, I think, an 85. Its been dead since around 1995. From what I recall, it has all lapbelts in the back, but I can't be sure.
We usually send the Parkway for my DS to use at her house. OF course, I could just install the Regent in the van instead, but by next year he'll be over 50 lbs and so there would be no question about it needing to be tethered.
So, I was figuring I"d need to tell her that if she really wants to do this, she needs to budget in getting new seat belts installed - and they need to be shoulder/lap. Is it even possible to retrofit different seatbelts though?
Safety wise - would 20 yr old seatbelts even be safe anymore? As a last resort, if I could just get her to get new lap belts installed and insist on getting tether anchors installed too. If she can't get either shoulder/lap belts or tether anchors, if not both, then there's not much point in her even getting it running again, because I won't put my kids in seats with lap belts other than to hold a carseat in place.
Her other idea is to plan the trip for sometime when she can borrow her church van - um, but that's is a 15 passenger with lap belts I think. I know they bought a newer one recently, it may have some shoulder belt positions.

Are there any other safety considerations for fixing up the old van? The other potential problem is that i know my dad would do all of the mechanical stuff himself - I'm afraid he'd want to cut costs and do the seat belts and tethers himself too, and since he's never done tether installations, I'm just not really comfortable with that. They're big fans of cutting corners to save costs and he would say that if he can bolt any kind of hook somewhere on the vehicle, it should work "just fine."
 
ADS

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
Installing top tether anchors yourself is not necessarily a bad thing. The LATCH manual from www.saferidenews.com has some suggestions on placement. It's unlikely that you'd find replacement or retrofit seatbelts from VW any more, even if they used to make shoulder belt kits. Overall, it's a tough situation.

If no other options present themselves, I'd consider an Ez-On vest/harness and install their heavy duty tether anchor mount. The Kid-Y plus Ryde Ryte booster might be the best option for kids over 40 pounds since they also provide some instructions for installing the tether anchor. Combined with the information in the LATCH manual, you could probably make a pretty good installation. You can find some information and instructions here http://www.safetyangel.com/products/kidY.shtml .
 

Kellyr2

New member
Hmm, I was hoping to not also have to buy new seats (vests in this case) JUST for use in that one vehicle the one week that they'll use it each year. If they could get tethers, I'm betting I could at least get a good install with lapbelts - assuming the ones in there are safe or that they could get new ones.
So if replacement or retrofits are out (which I'll check on), the best bet may be checking to see what the options are in the 15 passenger van. If it has tethers and lapbelts, I can install the seats in there - which I think I'd rather do for a 15 pass than a booster anyway.
I'll check into the ez-on stuff, and vw belts! Thanks!
 

Kellyr2

New member
Oh, the heavy duty tether anchors - do they come with good instructions on finding an appropriate spot for installing them?
Even if I don't get them to put them in the van, if they don't wind up fixing it, I might beg them to get some for their Tahoe sometime.
I did find some replacement lap belts, at least - though, "retractable" - does that mean totally non-locking? http://performance.thepartsbin.com/...odelid=532&year=1985&partid=5041&brandid=1671

And I found that VW will sell retrofit shoulderbelts for vehicles as far back as 1980, but at $70 each, I doubt my parents would go for that. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/Retrofit04/ListOfShoulders.htm They'd need 4.

*sigh* They need to just win the lottery so she can just get her Surburban!
 

Jeanum

Admin - CPS Technician Emeritus
Staff member
No offense, but personally I would be rather leary of a twenty year old VW van that has been sitting for 10+ years because I would be afraid it would break down again when the kids are riding in it, KWIM?

I'm thinking of a similar scenario where a friend's dad had an old '78 Cadillac El Dorado that sat in need of repairs for 5+ years. He's very mechancially handy but a procrastinator, lol, and he got the Caddy running somehow in the late 80s when my friend first got her license. Her dad wanted her to drive something big and safe, lol. The '78 El Dorado is enormous, about the last of the truly full sized Cadillac dinosaurs. The Caddy kept stranding her as various things went wrong with it, mainly due to things deteriorating over the time it sat around, and I was along for the ride a couple of times when it broke down. One time the transmission disengaged from the engine (that's how my friend explained the problem to me at any rate), and black smoke started belching out the dash into the passenger compartment. Her Dad "fixed it" and then the same thing happened a couple of weeks later, stranding her again. The old mufflers fell off, the tires were rotten and needed replacing, and when she had a flat the spare was also on the verge of rotting away. Fortunately, none of the numerous mechanical problems resulted in a crash, but it wasn't exactly a safety improvement to drive such a large vehicle prone to breaking down.

I'd be very cautious about a car that has been sitting around and brought back to life, especially if my kids were riding in it. Maybe you could encourage them to swap cars with you or rent a minivan for the time the kids are staying?
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
Kellyr2 said:
Oh, the heavy duty tether anchors - do they come with good instructions on finding an appropriate spot for installing them?
Even if I don't get them to put them in the van, if they don't wind up fixing it, I might beg them to get some for their Tahoe sometime.
I did find some replacement lap belts, at least - though, "retractable" - does that mean totally non-locking? http://performance.thepartsbin.com/...odelid=532&year=1985&partid=5041&brandid=1671

And I found that VW will sell retrofit shoulderbelts for vehicles as far back as 1980, but at $70 each, I doubt my parents would go for that. http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/childps/Retrofit04/ListOfShoulders.htm They'd need 4.

*sigh* They need to just win the lottery so she can just get her Surburban!

The Ezon instructions have basic information only, you can find them online at the web link I posted. The LATCH manual has more specific instructions. If it comes to the last resort, I or another person could fax you the relevant pages if necessary.

VW may have made retrofit belts, the question is if you can still find them. Many domestic companies also made retrofits, but they can be very hard to find now since they are no longer manufactured.

I agree with Jeanum about having kids in a 1980s van in general. For an occasional trip it would be fine if they were otherwise restrained properly. For every day over a summer or something, I would have second thoughts. Even properly restrained, the crash protection is questionable. I'd be just as concerned for your parents.
 

Dawn

New member
What year is the Tahoe? Would it be safer and cheaper to have a disable switch put on the airbag if it has one or disconnect it all together? I know it isn't ideal but versus a possibly unreliable and unsafe vehicle it could be safer. Can they budget a rental mini-van for the week or part of the week?
 

Kellyr2

New member
I'm not sure what year it is, but it seats 5 ppl total, and there are 4 grandkids, and she wouldn't be taking them anywhere just by herself, so it won't work at all to use it.
Darren, I figured that was you.
It'll be around a year before they do this again anyway, so I've got some time. I'll wait until I hear that my dad is actually starting to get serious about working on the van before I worry about dealing with it too much, I just want to be prepared. My mom wants it... but I'll believe it when I see it, LOL. He hasn't taken the time/money in over 10 yrs to do it, even when they truly NEEDED it, so I don't have high expectations.
I might suggest renting a minivan.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
3rd row

With all of the expenses, you may want to consider buying a 3rd row for the Tahoe- all Tahoes/Yukons are equipped with the capability of adding a 3rd row seat. It would be easy, safe, permanent and next year when "Grandma camp" comes around there will be no problem. Just an idea. I know they are on Ebay for sale around $500.
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
(kellyr2 not signed in...)
Are those 3rd rows really, truly safe? That would be a great option, if they really are safe enough.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
If they are aftermarket products not endorsed by the vehicle manufacturer, then your only guarantee of safety is the word of some small company that makes it.

Standards don't exist for such products. They can test them on a sled or in a specific vehicle to see if they would meet other standards that apply to vehicles. Unfortunately, without uniform standards and crash testing in vehicles by the IIHS and NHTSA, there's only one way to find out if it would be safe for your load of passengers in your particular vehicle:-(
 
U

Unregistered

Guest
For the Tahoe's though, I know I've heard that the vehicle itself comes equipped to add an optional 3rd row, and I always assumed these were actually sold by GM.
I wouldn't do an aftermarket that hadn't actually been tested with the vehicle. But I'd always thought that basically, all the Tahoe's were built the same, some just didn't have the 3rd row installed in there, others did. (kelly, again)
 

KaysKidz

Senior Community Member
I don't think 3rd rows in Tahoe's became available until the newer models. You would have to put a call into GM to find out for sure. I have a '97 Suburban w/3rd row. My 3rd row is removable, but it's not an after market seat. They have been standard in the Sub for years, although our old '75 we used to have did not have a 3rd row.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
If it is standard or a factory option, then it should be properly designed and tested compared to an aftermarket model from a 3rd party.
 

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