Question Travelling from Canada to Europe car seat questions

U

Unregistered

Guest
we will be travelling to Europe ( Croatia) and I wanted to know what to do about car seats. I worry that since cars are much smaller that my car seats may not fit in a European car. Right now I have my 4 year old in a Britax Frontier CT and the baby is in a chicco keyfit..but I will probably buy a RF seat soon as hes big and doesnt really like the infant seat. I know we can rent a large car when we are there but will probably get something smaller b/c of cost. Is renting car seats a better option ( I didnt think it was a good idea b/c then you dont know the history of the seat). Thanks.
 
ADS

AniW

New member
This was my post but I posted unregistered. Baby is going to be 4.5 months old. He's 15.5 lbs now. dS1 is 4 yrs old 35 lbs and 41 inches/ 104 cm
 

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I think that I would travel with the KeyFit baseless (does he have a seat on the plane? Do you have a plan for actually transporting the seat to keep it undamaged, if not?), and get a lightweight, sale Evenflo SureRide here and if you sign up for their Viva Baby program you get $15 off your first purchase, making it about $75 shipped to most places in Canada.

Practice a baseless install with a locking clip on the KeyFit, and be familiar with a locking clip install with the SureRide in case the vehicle doesn't have lower anchors (I have zero clue what you might find in Croatia for a rental).
 

Pixelated

Moderator - CPST Instructor
I had thought about buying a seat there. This one is under $100 http://www.ekupi.hr/Autosjedalica-Free-On-ERIDA-273011.aspx

So to install the keyfit base less you have to have a locking clip? What if you do it without one and just lock the belt ?

It is my (limited) understanding of European cars that the belts usually do not have a pre-crash locking feature like North American cars do. They will lock in a crash, of course, but the average lap/shoulder belt on most Euro cars won't have a mode to switch to locking, so you would have to use the locking clip. I do recommend practicing first so you aren't frazzled trying to do it at the airport after traveling.

Hopefully someone with knowledge of the seat you linked will come along, I have no clue :eek:
 

Adventuredad

New member
What kind of driving will you be doing? A four year old is not any safer in a harnessed seat compared to a high back booster. A low back booster will provide the same safety as harnessed or HBB but downside is when child is asleep and will then be out of position. A four year old will also be a little more still in a HBB. Will you be doing long drives or just around the city?

A US seat is illegal to use in Europe. Doesn't matter if it's for a day as a tourist or as resident. Personally I think it's great that parents plan ahead so please bring your infant seat. I don't understand what the big deal is about a locking clip? Anyone could place one in position in a minute or less unless extremely drunk.

The link you provided for a seat is a site in Hungary for a brand no one has ever heard of. I don't speak the language so can't even tell if it's RF or FF. Likely a horrible idea to purchase this seat.

I have travelled far more than anyone with small kids on an aircraft and recommend very strongly against bringing the seat on board for the little one. I did 60+ flight the first four years, lots of them long transatlantic flights.

Sitting next to a child in a car seat must be avoided at all cost. I have never, not once, seen child in a car seat on board an aircraft which has not been anything than hysterical and out of control. Same with the parents. Maybe I have just come across horrible parenting. My preference has always been to bring child in the lap.

All research, mainly by FAA, show extremely clearly that traveling with a car seat on an aircraft is completely irrelevant for safety. Most parents feel, think and believe it's safer but that is incorrect.

Cars in general are a bit smaller and far more economical in Europe than US although there are exceptions. A huge advantage is that front passenger airbag can usually be turned off. This is the safest place in the car for a rear facing child and very practical for space. I'm aware that airbags aren't allowed to be turned off in US but that is because the country is at least 30 years behind in car seat safety.

Renting a seat is rarely a good idea. Especially in Croatia where car seats are barely used.
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
What kind of driving will you be doing? A four year old is not any safer in a harnessed seat compared to a high back booster. A low back booster will provide the same safety as harnessed or HBB but downside is when child is asleep and will then be out of position. A four year old will also be a little more still in a HBB. Will you be doing long drives or just around the city?

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-01/esv/esv19/05-0330-O.pdf This is rear facing to booster, but it shows a decrease in injuries from four to five year olds in boosters. What studies do you have saying a four year old is safe, please? I'd like to see a link.

A US seat is illegal to use in Europe. Doesn't matter if it's for a day as a tourist or as resident. Personally I think it's great that parents plan ahead so please bring your infant seat. I don't understand what the big deal is about a locking clip? Anyone could place one in position in a minute or less unless extremely drunk.

The legality is hazy at best, but likely true. However, the issue with a locking clip is that we haven't used them here regularly in nearly 20 years. So North Americans don't know how to do them properly. So doing them in a car after a long trip? May as well be drunk.

I have travelled far more than anyone with small kids on an aircraft and recommend very strongly against bringing the seat on board for the little one. I did 60+ flight the first four years, lots of them long transatlantic flights.

The TC, FAA, NTSB, and AAP disagree with you.

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/108/5/1218.full
http://www.ntsb.gov/safety/children.html
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/air-passengers-children-564.htm

Sitting next to a child in a car seat must be avoided at all cost. I have never, not once, seen child in a car seat on board an aircraft which has not been anything than hysterical and out of control. Same with the parents.

You've never traveled with me. My kids have also traveled quite a bit trans-Atlantic, trans-Pacific, trans-America (several times a year). They're the ones chilling in their seats, or up moving about somewhat when the seatbelt light is off. If you were on my flights with me from North Carolina, US to Shanghai, China when my older was 4.5 on the way there you would have seen her go to the bathroom 12 times, and on the way back sleep for seven hours straight in her Sunshine Kids Radian. Comfortable in a seat that fit her properly. When we stopped flying with her seat it took her three years to learn how to sleep comfortably in a seat too big for her.

All research, mainly by FAA, show extremely clearly that traveling with a car seat on an aircraft is completely irrelevant for safety. Most parents feel, think and believe it's safer but that is incorrect.

Links, please? We ask you every.single.time you make this claim to see a link. I've provided you with the links to the FAA, AAP, NTSB, and TC stating a child is safer restrained. If *I* need a seatbelt, what in the world means my child doesn't?? Please, provide your links! I don't care what language they're in. At this point, if you don't have any, stop saying this.

Cars in general are a bit smaller and far more economical in Europe than US although there are exceptions. A huge advantage is that front passenger airbag can usually be turned off. This is the safest place in the car for a rear facing child and very practical for space. I'm aware that airbags aren't allowed to be turned off in US but that is because the country is at least 30 years behind in car seat safety.

Hardly. We recommend rear facing until four now and booster to 12. Remind you of any other country you love?

European cars can have the airbag turned off. It is true. As for the rest, here are some studies. http://www.carseatsite.com/statistics.htm

Renting a seat is rarely a good idea. Especially in Croatia where car seats are barely used.

This I completely and utterly agree with. Bring your seats.

Contact Chicco Canada and see if they're ok with a locking clip on the seat baseless. If you bring a SureRide you may have an issue with front to back space, but likely you can make it work. I had a First Years True Fit Premier rear facing for six months in eight different German cars. Even in the small car (they made a mistake one month) I was able to install the seat far enough back (literally standing behind it and wiggling it toward the trunk) so my 5'11" husband could drive in front. So I think it's doable with a SureRide, but you might need to work at it a bit more than a Keyfit baseless. But contact Chicco Canada (or Chicco USA, either way).

Wendy
 

bubbaray

New member
I'm not entering into the debate other than to say my girls HATED being in child restraints on the plane. We always purchased tickets for them, but quickly moved them to the lap belt because until you've sat beside a child screaming blue murder the whole way to Maui, you haven't lived.
 

creideamh

Well-known member
August 1991 FAA brochure (I was 11 months and my dad used to fly small planes.)

http://instagram.com/p/lyQjxVBpVy/

Not much more to add except to agree with Wendy- my daughter has been on over 100 flights and never rode as a lap baby (I would want to die) and the twice she's ridden in the seatbelt alone has been a PITA (it does fit). She's so much better behaved in a car seat. I might still skip it if we're vacationing somewhere and only using public transport/RSTV, but I wouldn't dare fly overseas without a car seat til she's at least over 5yo. Even more so, I'd personally never ever fly with a 4mo without a car seat, anywhere.

I do agree to skip that sketchy looking seat, though. There are some scary ones mfc in China/other places with no car seat standards, so who knows how safe they really are. The Britax-Romer Evolva is a harness to booster that he may fit in, but it'll depend on his torso length and it maxes out at 18kg for the harness. I don't know if you can buy it in Croatia or how much it would cost, though; your likely most cost-effective option is above- to buy a SureRide or Maestro in Canada and take it with you. That way you can also get used to installing it vs being stressed and pressed for time after flying overseas with two young children.
 

safeinthecar

Moderator - CPS Technician
What kind of driving will you be doing? A four year old is not any safer in a harnessed seat compared to a high back booster. A low back booster will provide the same safety as harnessed or HBB but downside is when child is asleep and will then be out of position. A four year old will also be a little more still in a HBB. Will you be doing long drives or just around the city?

A US seat is illegal to use in Europe. Doesn't matter if it's for a day as a tourist or as resident. Personally I think it's great that parents plan ahead so please bring your infant seat. I don't understand what the big deal is about a locking clip? Anyone could place one in position in a minute or less unless extremely drunk.

The link you provided for a seat is a site in Hungary for a brand no one has ever heard of. I don't speak the language so can't even tell if it's RF or FF. Likely a horrible idea to purchase this seat.

I have travelled far more than anyone with small kids on an aircraft and recommend very strongly against bringing the seat on board for the little one. I did 60+ flight the first four years, lots of them long transatlantic flights.

Sitting next to a child in a car seat must be avoided at all cost. I have never, not once, seen child in a car seat on board an aircraft which has not been anything than hysterical and out of control. Same with the parents. Maybe I have just come across horrible parenting. My preference has always been to bring child in the lap.

All research, mainly by FAA, show extremely clearly that traveling with a car seat on an aircraft is completely irrelevant for safety. Most parents feel, think and believe it's safer but that is incorrect.

I really wish you would stop this song and dance. I respect a lot of what you do, but when the FAA clearly recommends carseats as being safer for children on airplanes you undermine yourself to the point where people are less likely to listen to you when you are giving out good advice.

Your kids travel better without seats...that's great. Mention that as your experience, but don't assume that everybody has the same children as you, and don't use your experience to redefine the word irrelevant. Crash safety aside, how do you expect a parent traveling alone with a sleeping baby and sleeping toddler to carry both to the bathroom and keep their balance during sudden turbulence. With a carseat, you can leave sleeping children in their row and be assured that they will not roll off down the aisle while you pee.

Furthermore, the OP is from Canada, where there is no such thing as a booster rated for her 35# child. She can't exactly put rocks in the boy's pockets to weigh him down so he's heavy enough for a booster, so, putting the booster/harness debate aside...a 5 point that fits him will hands down be a safer choice than a booster that doesn't.

Finally. Sweden is not the US, Canada, Europe, or any other place in the world. You have a longstanding culture of car safety compliance and kids behave differently in cars because of it. Most of the rest of the world is still trying to get the parents on board with car safety and even 4yos pick up on the culture of "it's no big deal" regarding buckling up properly. Those of us that are fighting to reverse this culture really, really don't appreciate it when people hamstring our message by giving out advice that only applies to kids halfway around the world.

Our kids, even those who have been taught proper use from birth, pick up bad habits through observing that the majority of the people in their lives do not care if they buckle up and need more time to absorb how very serious sitting properly in a booster is. (and more consistency- hence why not allowing plane travel without a seat is a big deal to us even though we do understand that the risks are comparatively much tinier than car travel. Not irrelevant. The math proves otherwise, even if statistically the sum risk of airplane travel is small)

I'm happy for you that children in your country are easier to keep alive. Yay for Sweden. (really, no snark)

But man...it would sure be nice if you were on our side instead of against us all the time when it comes to protecting kids that aren't Swedish.
 

biddyk8

New member
My only comment would be to say that we have done 8 transatlantic flights with my dd. 4 as a lapbaby ( before we knew better) and 4 in her seat. The 4 in her seat she slept 21 hours of the 22hours flying time.

The other 4 I would say she was screaming and generally awful for all but about 2 Hours of it. Every kid is different some will be better out of the car seat and some will be better in. But in is safer!

Also the last 3 cars I've rented in Europe have been Nissans and fords with locking seat belts and latch so installs were easy.

Our relatives rent in Croatia every year and always manage to get a new car which would have latch for installs.
 
Last edited:
Sorry for the busy thread, OP!

If your youngest still fits in the KeyFit when you leave then I would take that. As for the 4 year old, he is too light for any Canadian booster and without any prior experience in a booster it will likely be difficult to get him to sit properly (especially being in a different part of the world with new things to see!), and that is very unsafe. As you know, he must sit properly at all times in order for the booster to do it's job. I would recommend purchasing an Evenflo SureRide (also called the Titan 65) for him. It is around $100 at Walmart, and a little more at Toys R Us. It will last him until he is well over 6-7 if he is of average height and weight (it makes an awesome back-up seat because it is very light and relatively easy to install). It could also be a travel seat for your youngest once your oldest is ready for a booster.

Seeing as how you have a few long flights, I would personally recommend bringing your car seats on the plane. It will likely be more comfortable for your children to sleep and even more secure incase of turbulence or an emergency landing because the seat's harness fits them properly, verses the plane's lap belt which may not.

It is a parental choice to use a car seat for your child on an aircraft, so the decision is yours, but having a familiar, clean, comfy place to sleep just might make the flight a little easier on everyone. You know your children best so think about how they would react to being in a car seat on an aircraft and whether or not you think they'd sleep, if they'd be totally opposed to the idea, if they wouldn't notice, etc.

Enjoy your trip!!
 

AniW

New member
My kids hate car seats so I think they would both prefer not to be in them! Lol but they don't have a choice.

The evenflow seat that was recommended (sure ride)..why it? Because it's cheap? Is it light? BRU has a car seat sale and I could buy a britax or diono for the baby to use in a few months but bring it traveling with us?

Is the seat aircraft approved?

Thanks
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Britax, Diono, and Evenflo are all airline approved. There are very few that aren't (and in Canada I think they all are).

The SureRide/Titan 65 has 19" top slots, some of the tallest on the market. It has a 65 pound harness limit, weighs 10 pounds, is not super narrow nor is it super wide. It's $100 at Walmart http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/evenflo-titan-65-chessburg/6000069431796.

The downsides of it, the straps can be close together on the neck. My daughter mentioned it, I said I couldn't do anything, and that was the end of it. But it bothers some kids. The buckle forward facing on the plane can end up behind their backs as well. Same thing, she mentioned it, I said I couldn't do anything, and that was it. It wasn't bad enough that she chose to be rear facing rather than watch the movies/TV shows in front of her.

Wendy
 

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