Boulevard/Advocate Click Tight weighted dummy harness failure - is this Consumer Report issue new?

Hazelandlucy

Active member
I remember the G4 Britaxes having the harness pull through the shell issue with the heavy dummy, but I thought CS loved the Click Tight. Now it looks like the Boulevard and Advocate Click Tight had the same problem - which I swear is new from when I last looked! Is this from the second round of testing? They now have a 'basic" rating in crash protection.

This is what it now says:

In Consumer Reports’ new crash tests, 2 of 2 Britax Boulevard ClickTight seats tested forward-facing with a weighted 62 lb. dummy, representing a heavier 6 year old child, experienced the seat’s internal harness pulling through the shell, when the harness was tested in the top harness position. This could provide a lesser margin of safety when compared to other models subjected to the same test protocol. Though the child-sized dummy remained within the harness, the loose harness could jeopardize the seat’s ability to effectively protect a child in any subsequent impacts occurring during a crash event. As required of all car seats sold in the U.S., the Britax Boulevard ClickTight must comply with all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, and the manufacturers self-certify to such compliance. The federal standard is designed to ensure an essential level of crash protection. CR’s crash evaluation of infant and convertible car seats is based on how each seat’s performance compares with that of similar models in our 35 mph frontal crash tests. Given the results for the Britax Boulevard ClickTight, we believe there are better choices that could provide a greater margin of safety in certain crash conditions similar to those simulated in our tests
 
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SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
These results were added last week to their convertible ratings. The Marathon ClickTight retained its BETTER rating, as it does not have the top two harness height settings that the Boulevard and Advocate do.

As we do not know all the details of Consumer Reports testing, our advice would be the same as other convertible carseats that had similar findings when forward facing with the 62 pound dummy. In this case, forward facing children who are near 60 pounds AND who require the top harness height setting may wish to transition to a booster seat (or a combination harness/booster seat with higher limits to remain in a 5-point harness longer).

The vast majority of children are using boosters at 6 years and 60 pounds anyway, so this is not a major drawback. In addition, the Boulevard CT and Advocate CT are nearly outgrown at this age and weight for many kids. Obviously, the essentially identical Marathon CT performed well so there is likely no concern using this for slightly shorter forward-facing children in lower harness height settings. This would not affect rear-facing use at all, of course.
 

Hazelandlucy

Active member
My issue is not the 62 lb dummy, but the unknown of where it first will happen below 62 lbs. What is the next lowest weight they test at? Is it not false advertising to say a product can go to 65 lbs when it really doesn't?
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
It's definitely NOT false advertising. I am almost certain no manufacturer advertises about passing proprietary tests from third party agencies like Consumer Reports, especially since these tests likely were not even public when most carseats on the market were designed. In fact, CR generally prohibits any advertising from mentioning them by name. It's possible some advertise this indirectly, but only after the ratings are released, of course.

It certainly passes the required federal testing with the 62 pound dummy in order to be rated at 65 pounds. Of course, the sled, crash pulse and crash speed vary from the Consumer Reports testing.

As for the specifics about the Consumer Reports testing, I will try to determine that. In that the Marathon CT passed, we know that both the 52 and the 62 pound dummy worked in a lower harness height setting. I read that the failure was only with 62-pound dummy at the highest setting, but it's not clear if they tested other scenarios. That comes back to the flaws with only doing one or two tests of a carseat. You really need numerous tests in each use mode to be thorough, and that is prohibitively expensive for small agencies, and perhaps even the NHTSA and IIHS.
 

Hazelandlucy

Active member
If it's pulling through at 62 lbs and 35 MPH, which isn't a concern because 62 lbs won't really be in the seat, is there a concern that say a 50 lb dummy will pull through at 40 MPH? Hope that makes sense. Thanks.
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
If it's pulling through at 62 lbs and 35 MPH, which isn't a concern because 62 lbs won't really be in the seat, is there a concern that say a 50 lb dummy will pull through at 40 MPH? Hope that makes sense. Thanks.

Impossible to say without testing, but the energy in 40mph crash with a 50 lb dummy is only about 5% more than a 35mph crash with a 62 pound dummy. Since the energy is similar, it may depend on how the weight is distributed and which harness slot is used as to whether there would be a failure. For that reason, any other seat might fail in that scenario as well.
 

Hazelandlucy

Active member
It's definitely NOT false advertising. I am almost certain no manufacturer advertises about passing proprietary tests from third party agencies like Consumer Reports, especially since these tests likely were not even public when most carseats on the market were designed. In fact, CR generally prohibits any advertising from mentioning them by name. It's possible some advertise this indirectly, but only after the ratings are released, of course.

It certainly passes the required federal testing with the 62 pound dummy in order to be rated at 65 pounds. Of course, the sled, crash pulse and crash speed vary from the Consumer Reports testing.

As for the specifics about the Consumer Reports testing, I will try to determine that. In that the Marathon CT passed, we know that both the 52 and the 62 pound dummy worked in a lower harness height setting. I read that the failure was only with 62-pound dummy at the highest setting, but it's not clear if they tested other scenarios. That comes back to the flaws with only doing one or two tests of a carseat. You really need numerous tests in each use mode to be thorough, and that is prohibitively expensive for small agencies, and perhaps even the NHTSA and IIHS.

What about with the G4? What worries me is the Roundabout G4 failed at 52 lbs. Are they all the same shell and harness? If so, wouldn't that mean that the Boulevard (G4) would also fail at 52 lbs? 52 lbs is getting a little close to 40-45 lbs, which what my kids will be in the last year of use.
 
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SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
The G4 is a different platform altogether compared to the newer ClickTight models.

We are advised that the Boulevard/Advocate ClickTight models ONLY had a harness pull through with the 62-pound weighted dummy at the highest harness setting. They did test with both 52- and 62-pound dummy at other settings and observed no similar harness related excursion issues.
 

Hazelandlucy

Active member
The G4 is a different platform altogether compared to the newer ClickTight models.

We are advised that the Boulevard/Advocate ClickTight models ONLY had a harness pull through with the 62-pound weighted dummy at the highest harness setting. They did test with both 52- and 62-pound dummy at other settings and observed no similar harness related excursion issues.

I am totally not meaning to beat a dead horse and that is great news about the 52 lb dummy passing with the CLicktights.

With the G4s (I have them as well so that is why I am so interested), the Roundabout G4 pulled through at 52 lbs. Is that shell similar enough to the Boulevard/Advocate G4 to worry about?

Thank you!
 

SafeDad

CPSDarren - Admin
Staff member
I am totally not meaning to beat a dead horse and that is great news about the 52 lb dummy passing with the CLicktights.

With the G4s (I have them as well so that is why I am so interested), the Roundabout G4 pulled through at 52 lbs. Is that shell similar enough to the Boulevard/Advocate G4 to worry about?

Thank you!

It's impossible to say.

First, though I believe their methods have improved, they are still proprietary. For example, their results have not been peer-reviewed and published in a major medical or scientific journal. Unlike some vehicle crash testing protocols, there is zero correlation between these ratings and any real-world risk of injury or fatality. That alone should give pause to any consumer who uses these crash protection scores as the only factor to choose, or not choose, any particular carseat.

Plus, even with these specific results, I don't know the failure mechanism or how serious the failure was. So, I certainly can't say if it is a major concern, or if it would be the same on a no-rethread harness like Boulevard/Marathon/Advocate as it would on a regular harness like Roundabout. I would assume they also tested with the 52-pound dummy on the Boulevard/Advocate G4, just as they did with the CT model, but I don't know for certain.

To summarize, the information that I have is that the Boulevard ClickTight, Advocate CT and Marathon CT ALL performed very well in nearly every test done by Consumer Reports, well enough that each would earn a BETTER or BEST rating for modes that apply to the vast majority of situations where these carseats are actually used. The single exception is the one test using a 6-year old, weighted 62-pound dummy in the very highest harness setting on the Advocate and Boulevard. This is a harness height adjustment that does not exist on the Marathon because it does not adjust as high as the other two models.

In that single test, the dummy measurements exceeded their thresholds enough to lower their overall crash protection score to "BASIC", because this score is a composite of numerous rear-facing and front-facing crash tests with various dummy sizes and weights. In my opinion, this is a major reporting flaw in what may otherwise be a reasonable crash testing protocol. Why? Because the vast majority of parents have stopped using their convertible carseat by the time their child is 6-years and 62 pounds and using the highest harness setting of the Boulevard CT or Advocate CT in forward-facing mode! (Nearly all kids are in booster seats or combination harness/booster seats by then)

In all other modes and tests, these models performed very well, and even in this one test, we don't know how significant this one poor crash test result would be in a real-world crash. For that reason, the single composite crash protection score with an unknown weighting for all the included crash test results appears to be rather unfair in this example. That is magnified when you consider how many parents blindly use just the crash protection score as a reason to choose (or not choose) a particular carseat.
 
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