safest carseat arrangement in sienna

i think we are going to bite the bullet and get a 2004 sienna. i am wondering what the safest placement for carseats would be. we have a 3 yo in a ff marathon, and a month old infant in a rf wizard. we are getting the 8 seater so there will be 3 seats in the middle row. thx!

Have you seen the 8 passenger?

I know a few people who were 100% sure they wanted the 8 seater til they saw it. The observations were that the second row was designed for 3 car seats, not 3 adults. I have the 2004 7 passenger and love it. We've had it about 3 months. The gilrs (1 and 3 years) sit in the captain seats in the second row. One RF in a FPSE and 1 FF in a FPSE. Both soon to be replaced by the Marathon (they both HATED the Wizard!), which BTW fits amazingly well both FF and RF in the captain chairs using the lower anchors. I figure these are the 2 seats furthest from a front and rear impact, which of course are the most common types of crashes.

i really want the 8 seater to sit in btwn the 2 children. both the wizard and the marathon are wider than most adults so i don't see how the seats would be that much smaller.. my husband said the middle seat can be removed to make a 2 seat row with regular sized seats. do you know if that is true? have you seen one? thanks for the heads up-

I haven't seen it, but one of my friends that went to see it and was set on it had planned the Husky in the third row, A marathon FF in the second row outboard, her in the middle and a RA in the other outboard seat. She is a small woman, and said she didn't fit. That middle seat is optomized for a child seat, not an adult. ALso she didn't see how she could get to the middle seat with the MA and RA in the ourboard seats. Also with the in the middle row, they found it EXTREMELY difficult to access the third row. What my two frined like and whay you like may be very different. I would just try to see it before you buy it, or make sure the dealer you use won't keep your deposit if you decide against it after it gets to the dealership.

You don't say why you want to sit between the kids, but we have been on long road trips with our girls and sometimes one of us sits in the third row while they are in the second row, and all worked out well.

On long trips, I often put one child in the middle of the back row, one in the middle row driver's side, and I sit in the middle row passenger side...that way I'm in the back with them, watching a movie, maybe, and we can all reach each other easily to hand things around....and with a Sienna, you could fold down one of the seats of the third row, and not lose much cargo space.

Some moms want to sit next to an infant so they can nurse while the car is driving, and not have to take the baby out of the seat...unfortunately, this is extremely dangerous but most people don't know that, so I thought I'd mention it.

You are right that nursing is the main reason i want to sit by the infant. But I always do it still buckled in. IS THAT STILL SO DANGEROUS?

Does anyone know if the two captains chairs in the second row of the sienna will be the same whether it is a 7 or 8 seater? Can you remove the middle seat in an 8 seater?
We are ordering the car from far away ( a few hours) and it will be very hard to go see it and then go back and pick it up, so any info is greatly appreciated!! kk

There is *no* safe way to breastfeed in a moving vehicle!!!

This is coming from someone who used to recommend the method you're talking about (strap baby in rear facing seat, strap mom in 3 point belt, mom leans over baby in seat so baby can reach nipple). Now, I'm horrified at the thought of how many moms & babies I put at risk when I suggested that method!

So, why isn't it safe? Well, the carseats certified to hold 20-35 lb rear facing, depending on the model. If you are leaning over the seat during a crash, your body will slam into the seat as well. Assuming you don't actually crush the baby, killing him/her with your own body, you will still be putting a great deal more force on the seat than it was intended to handle. This could cause the seat to fail altogether, resulting in severe injury or even death. Best case scenario, your baby will be more injured than he/she would have been if your body hadn't interfered with the performance of the seat.

Additionally, it is not safe for YOU. It doesn't matter how dedicated you are to breastfeeding, your nursing relationship will end real fast if you are killed in a car crash! (For reference, I'm currently tandem nursing. I believe in extended nursing and child-led weaning.) In order to breastfeed a child in a car seat, you must move your own seatbelt out of the correct position. The lapbelt should ride low on your hips or across your thighs, while the shoulder belt should cross the center of your chest and lie across your shoulder. If either belt is improperly positioned, you increase the risk of internal injuries or even ejection from the vehicle & death! If you do manage to keep the belt in the correct position, but you are leaning forward or scootch your body forward, you are introducing slack which could allow you to be ejected during a crash. Even if you stay restrained by the belt, your body will move a lot more than it is supposed to, which will increase your risk of injury as well as increasing the risk that you will injure someone else.

Crash forces are *extreme*! Even when properly restrained, a person moves a LOT during a crash. Seatbelts are designed to stretch (which is why you must replace any seatbelts which were in use during a crash). This page (http://www.highwaysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/vrc2.htm) has 2 videos which illustrate my point. The first is the "5th percentile female test video." The second is the "BMW side impact test video." Both these videos give you an idea of how much movement is involved during a relatively low speed collision. The frontal/airbag test is done at 35 mph, while the side impact test is done at a mere 20 mph. Additionally, the 5th percentile dummy impacted on the steering wheel & airbag; if not for that, "she" would have moved significantly more. Both these dummies are 100% properly restrained. If there had been slack in the belt to begin with, the dummies would have moved even farther.

As another reference, government requirements for child safety seats limit head excursion, the distance the head moves forward) to a maximum of 28". An adult, who weighs much more than a child in a safety seat will also move farther. http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/stayrearfacing.aspx Scroll down to view a picture of how far a child moves forward during a frontal impact. You can also view test footage for a front facing child seat. Remember, a full grown adult will probably move *more* than that!

When my daughter was 5 months and my son was 2.5, we moved from Des Moines, Iowa to Ft. Leonardwood, MO. It was a 7+ hour drive to visit my parents and ILs who still lived in Des Moines. We pulled over to nurse, stretch our legs, diaper change, etc as often as necessary. Yes, it made the trip "longer," but it was healthier and safer for everyone. You are *supposed to* pull over to take a break every 1-3 hours during long drives, whether you have a small child with you or not. You are *supposed to* change a wet diaper as soon as it is wet, whether it is going to leak soon or not. If you plan on stopping "often" and budget your time accordingly, it really is not a hassle.

Like I said, it doesn’t matter how dedicated you are to nursing, your breastfeeding relationship will end real fast if one or both of you is killed in a vehicle collision!

The captains chairs in the 8 passenger are not the same as the big wide nice captain's chairs in the 7 seater. My friend specifically commented on that.

I agree that there is no safe way to breast feed in the car. When my first was 3 months old we had a 350 mile trip for a wedding. We had to stop often. It was ok, and certainly more safe than nursing in a moving car. Believe me I am a dedicated nurser-my first was nursed til 16 months, and my second is in no way ready to be weaned and she is 15 months. It really is not too much of a hassle to stop ever 2 or 3 hours on a long trip anyway. It is actually recommended that we stop and walk around anyway. You never want to be sitting for extended periods of time like that anyway. Good luck in what ever you get. As you can tell, I am very happy with the choice we made to get the 7 passenger.

tHANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH. i KNOW YOU ARE RIGHT, AND i GUESS MY CAR/NURSING DAYS ARE OVER! But oh, how nice it was while it lasted. BTW, it is wonderful to meet *2* extended nursing mothers! I am tandem nursing, too. It must be that we are all concerned with safety and doing what is beat for our kids, huh?
I couldn't figure out how I was going to nurse the baby in the wizard anyway LOL!!

would you count 3 extended nursing moms, even though mine are 4 and 6 and weaned They both went to 18 months and we just pulled over and took a break when they were hungry

I can't believe we are all extended nursers!!! there MUST really be a correlation here!!!! OK, OK............... no more car nursing and we'll pull over to take nursing breaks!!! I don't want to hear it, BUT I WILL listen! thanks all you nursers.............kk

Karen and Julie we NEED to take a CPS class!!!

I can't wait to get my Marathons and join that crowd too! Julie-I pm-ed you the other day-don't know if you saw it. I went to the store to get my Fido Marathon, and was not too happy to find it discontinued. The store I wanted to get it at has only the COloial Blue for $249, and I can get that for $200 at TRU next coupon sale, so I already called TRU and the coupons will be out sometime in September.

dang, I missed a PM...do you have AIM or yahoo? I'm joolstag ...we can whip each other into shape on this cps training issue, lol. I volunteered at a check last week, and it was FUN...even being a scribe and having to keep my mouth shut, it was still SO cool to be there!
Yay! new TRU coupons coming in september! Thanks for sharing that tidbit

I sent you a PM through this website. I had a PM from Karen sitting in my box for about 3 months before I noticed it. I didn't even know the function was available.

I pretty much install all my family and friend's car seats-and then send them off to the real installation place in my area! They all think I am a nut since I know too much about way too many seats-especially given the fact that I have only owned a Graco SnugRide, FPSE and a Next Step.

ok- back to the 8 versus 7 seater. my husband just called from a toyota dealer out of the area (he stopped by on his way home from a workshop) and he was looking at both models. now what i am wondering is if you have 3 children (which we may) wouldn't it be better to have all 3 of them in the second row? would 3 britax seats fit in the second row? anyone?anyone?

I think you need to go look at the Sienna in 7 and 8 passenger configurations and see what you like. It really is a personal preference. I hope I will have 3 kids within the next year, and will put my oldest in the third row. She rides there sometimes now and really likes it. I don't know if she is significantly less safe back there though. What color did you decide on?

I don't see how the 30/30/30 center seat on the Sienna could possibly be any worse for an adult than sitting next to a child seat in a moderate to small sedan!

We got a Honda Pilot, because I "needed" to be able to put my kids 3-across in the 2nd row of whatever vehicle we got, and didn't want another sedan/wagon. If the '04 Sienna had been an option for us, we'd have gone with that, hands down!

Yes, if you have all 3 center seats in use, you cannot easily access the 3rd row. When we have people with us and need to use the 3rd row, we've done 2 things. 1, we just move one of the kids to the back (Roman, because he's in the 40 seat of the 40/60 split), and I sit in the 2nd row. Or, when we've had 5 carseats in there, we put 2 kids in the far back, 3 in the middle, and let the 2 in the way back climb in through the rear hatch. For me, the convenience of putting my kids all in the 2nd row where I can reach them (to buckle them in and to pass them things while the vehicle is moving) is worth the loss of convenience when carrying more than 3 kids and 2 adults.

So are you happy with having them all in the second row? I still can't decide btwn the 7 or 8 seater. i am thinking with an infant and a 3 yo, it would be very nice to be able to sit beside one of them and either read and play with the 3 yo or soothe the baby from crying. I am afraid if I get the 7 seater, i may be getting out of my seat and doing things for the kids and that would be dangerous.

Question: How do the experts compare the safety of the rear row to the safety of the second row in the Sienna?

I'm definitely happiest with this arrangement. Having one or more of them in the 3rd row all the time would be a real PITB. I think I'd be even happier with the Sienna 8-seater.

Access to the third row is excellent in the 7 seater. When my 3 year old is in the back, she is easy to get to. She does actually buckle her own harness, so all I have to do is reach back to double check she's buckled correctly and give her harness adjuster a tug. The sliding door on the Sienna is very big, so that helps. Not trying to push the 7 seater, just letting you know how I find the 7 if you end up with one. I still say try to look at both before deciding. My hunch is that it ie all about personal preference

Ulrike-would you recommend a Pilot? I really like them, but people have told me they are very small inside. We will be in the market for another car soon (yes, even though we have the new Sienna!) and we both like the Pilot. How is the gas mileage. DH would use it on his 40 mile er way commute every day.

Thanks!