any safety issues: backless booster vs high back?

Reeze · Sep 29, 2007

Our daughter is 7 yrs old, 50.5 inches high (128 cm), and weighs 62 lbs (28 kg). We currently use a large high-back booster seat in our cars (Cosco Summit). This month she started first grade and we are about to start carpooling with another mom. We need to buy a seat to leave in the other mom's car.

Our daughter has done a few rides in the other mom's car, using a borrowed platform (backless) booster seat. She looks good in it -- the shoulder and lap belt are placed correctly, and the tops of her ears are not above the headrest. However, my wife is concerned with the safety aspect of that design vs. the one piece high-back booster. I have searched the web looking for any direct comparisons of these two designs v.a.v. performance in a crash. My wife (who'se an occupational therapist -- this may help explain her concerns

) makes the point that if a one-piece seat shifts during an impact, the ENTIRE body of the child moves with it. On a platform seat, you could have a situation where the platform shifts the child in a sideways direction, however their backs are against the regular car seat which would not move in relation to the platform. This could possibly cause a rotation in the spine and result in an injury that may have been prevented if the seat was a high-back.

I'm wondering if this issue has ever come up. Is there a consensus that one type of seat is safer, or are the backless boosters fine (as long as the requirements for belt placement, weight & height minimums are followed). Thanks for any feedback!

UlrikeDG · Sep 29, 2007

There are a few advantages of a high backed booster (not all of them safety related):
1) A wiggly child may find it easier to sit still in a high backed booster (HBB).
2) A HBB usually provide much better sleep support for long trips.
3) A HBB may provide better side impact protection, depending on model. (This is less of a concern in vehicles with side curtain airbags for backseat passengers.)
4) A HBB provides whiplash protection in vehicles with low seatbacks and no or low built-in headrests.

A backless booster, however, is much more portable and has a lower profile which can be more appealing to older kids who still don't pass the 5-step test without a booster.

I'm not aware of any research or anecdotal evidence regarding injuries to the spine due to "rotation" during a crash. In a side impact, the big risk is for severe head injuries. While side impacts are statistically rare, they tend to be extremely deadly because there is no crumple zone in a side impact.

crunchierthanthou · Sep 29, 2007

High back boosters often provide more side impact protection than backless and help ensure that the shoulder belt stays properly positioned. They are a must if any of the vehicles she will be riding in do not have headrests.

Backless boosters are okay as long as the vehicles she is riding in have headrests, your daughter will leave the shoulder portion in position and the lap and shoulder belt are properly positioned on the child (which you've already mentioned).

The Cosco Summit is a large seat and not ideal for long term booster use as it doesn't adjust any higher for booster mode. You can choose a more manageable and adjustable HBB like the Graco Turbo or Air Boosters, Compass B510 or Britax Parkway for switching between vehicles for carpools.

edit: As usual, I'm slow and Ulrike said it better.

MomToEliEm · Sep 29, 2007

Here are some side impact crash tests showing you the different seat types:

Video of High Back Booster with deap side wings:
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_...ideos/test2002/seitencrash/concordliftpro.mpg

Video of high back booster with shallow side wings
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/seitencrash/htsbesafe.mpg

Video of a no back booster
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_...1/seitencrash/Baby_Sunny_touring_P3_vorne.mpg

Reeze · Sep 29, 2007

Thanks for the quick replies! We just ordered the Britax Parkway.

Rob

southpawboston · Sep 29, 2007

UlrikeDG said:
3) A HBB may provide better side impact protection, depending on model. (This is less of a concern in vehicles with side curtain airbags for backseat passengers.)

it may be less of a concern for an outboard position with side curtain airbags, but it is still a concern if the HBB is positioned immediately adjacent to a carseat in which the shell of the carseat is in close proximity to the head of the booster occupant, such as in a three-across arrangement. the HBB, especially one with SIP, will help prevent the child's head from slamming into the hard outside shell of the adjacent carseat. although, i doubt this is much of an issue in a standard two-across setup where there is no center occupant, and there is some airspace between the booster and carseat.

skaterbabs · Sep 29, 2007

Except that what little evidence we have either way suggests that (contrary to what you'd think) the shell of the carseat provides some protection. That said, there isn't that much real-crash evidence.

southpawboston · Sep 29, 2007

skaterbabscpst said:
Except that what little evidence we have either way suggests that (contrary to what you'd think) the shell of the carseat provides some protection. That said, there isn't that much real-crash evidence.

what data is there that suggests that the *outside* of a chell protects the person next to it?

common sense would say it can be an issue. there is at least one other tech here who has her own evidence in favor of this idea.

scatterbunny · Sep 30, 2007

There is at least one CPS study out that indicates that children seated in three-across situations do fare better in crashes than children with no one sitting in the immediate seating positions. Yes, it does seem to go against common sense, in some regards, but in other ways it makes sense; less room for the body to travel before it does finally impact something and stop, therefore more stress on the body in general? Who knows--like Skaterbabs said, we don't have a lot to go on at this point.

skaterbabs · Sep 30, 2007

southpawboston said:
what data is there that suggests that the *outside* of a chell protects the person next to it?

common sense would say it can be an issue. there is at least one other tech here who has her own evidence in favor of this idea.

scatterbunny said:
There is at least one CPS study out that indicates that children seated in three-across situations do fare better in crashes than children with no one sitting in the immediate seating positions. Yes, it does seem to go against common sense, in some regards, but in other ways it makes sense; less room for the body to travel before it does finally impact something and stop, therefore more stress on the body in general? Who knows--like Skaterbabs said, we don't have a lot to go on at this point.

It's a study I read a while back; I honestly don't have a clue WHERE I saw it.... Possibly one of the medical journals?

MommyG · Mar 26, 2008

Bumping this post because I am wondering if there is any new research. I am considering using a backless booster for my 6 year old for when we car pool....extremely rarely.

Thanks!

MommyG · Mar 26, 2008

Appending this thread for more info:

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=12311&highlight=carpooling,+backless+boosters

And does no one here carpool....? Is it just never a good idea?

scatterbunny · Mar 26, 2008

When my dd rides with others, she uses a highback booster. *shrug* It's not that much more of an inconvenience, IMO. We have a Compass B510, which is very light, and dd knows how to use it properly on her own (in case an adult driving her doesn't know, which happens often). The Britax Parkway is also a great carpool booster because it's narrow and fits in tight spots well.

A backless for very rare use is okay, for a child big enough to use one safely, and I'd also feel more comfortable with a backless if the child will be seated in a center location (only with a shoulderbelt available), or if the vehicle has side airbags. Otherwise, I really feel that a highback provides more protection and should be used when practical and possible.

skaterbabs · Mar 26, 2008

My own sons used a high back at all times as long as they fit in one (eldest has now outgrown all available high backs). We keep a backless at Grandma's hoise for emergencies, but my boys are 10 and 11.

H. Pickett · Aug 6, 2009

Two reputable organizations give the BACKLESS Graco TurboBooster higher ratings than the HIGH BACK! Consumer Reports gives the backless TurboBooster its highest score (92), while the high back gets 82. Secondly, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) rates the backless TurboBooster a "BEST BET" while the high back doesn't make the list.

Interesting statistics. In both cases, the backless was used with the shoulder belt positioning belt that comes with the seat. This ensures the proper fit of the seatbelt around the child, which is really the main safety function of a booster seat.

Admin · Aug 6, 2009

H. Pickett said:
Two reputable organizations give the BACKLESS Graco TurboBooster higher ratings than the HIGH BACK! Consumer Reports gives the backless TurboBooster its highest score (92), while the high back gets 82. Secondly, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) rates the backless TurboBooster a "BEST BET" while the high back doesn't make the list.

Interesting statistics. In both cases, the backless was used with the shoulder belt positioning belt that comes with the seat. This ensures the proper fit of the seatbelt around the child, which is really the main safety function of a booster seat.

There are a few possibilities for this. First, you don't know how Consumer Reports rates anything. They don't tell you. Suppose they measure crash protection only by head excursion in a frontal crash. The head of a child in a backless booster could start an inch behind one in a high back. Based on that alone, the head excursion numbers may be better. Of course, this tells you nothing about actual frontal crash protection, side impact protection (which could be measurably better in a high back) or rear impact protect (where a high back may provide better whiplash protection than some vehicle seats). Another possibility is that the scores are normalized within the backless and high back categories and not directly comparable. Too bad Consumer Reports is so secretive with their methods.

As for the IIHS testing, the Graco Turbo high back also did well in the lap belt testing. It performed only slightly worse in the shoulder belt fit. It was listed as a "Good Bet". The Graco Turbo is (or was) one of the few backless models that features a shoulder belt clip, so that could be part of its good results compared to other backless models.

Anyway, high back or backless, the important thing is that it fits your child well and they use it correctly. You can choose the highest rated model and your child will still be unsafe if it doesn't work well with the position of your vehicle's seat belts or if it the belt guides are too cumbersome for you or your child. Neither the IIHS or the CR or anyone can give you this information, you need to evaluate yourself or with a certified technician to do this.

Defrost · Aug 6, 2009

H. Pickett said:
Interesting statistics. In both cases, the backless was used with the shoulder belt positioning belt that comes with the seat. This ensures the proper fit of the seatbelt around the child, which is really the main safety function of a booster seat.

Yes, but if you've had to use one of those on a day-to-day basis, you'll understand why they rarely ever get used with a backless booster, regardless of whether or not the child needs it. I'm sure they work great with crash-test dummies, though!

mom2boys · Aug 6, 2009

Wow! In watching those videos posted in this thread with the different types of boosters and the side impact crash test I am wondering if the Britax Parkway is safer than the SK Monterey. The Monterey seems to me to have the deep side headwings but the Parkway looks like it has only the more shallow headwings. I have not seen either in person, but I am desperately trying to decide between the two and I am thinking the Monterey is safer based on these videos. Am I correct?

joolsplus3 · Aug 6, 2009

mom2boys said:
Wow! In watching those videos posted in this thread with the different types of boosters and the side impact crash test I am wondering if the Britax Parkway is safer than the SK Monterey. The Monterey seems to me to have the deep side headwings but the Parkway looks like it has only the more shallow headwings. I have not seen either in person, but I am desperately trying to decide between the two and I am thinking the Monterey is safer based on these videos. Am I correct?

No, they are about equal, likely. There's a monterey video on youtube that shows a direct side impact crash, and there are videos on the britax site (probably youtube, too) that show similar crashes. Britax does take the extra step of making their crashes more like real life, like the car is moving forward and then slammed from the side, to make sure the head stays contained in the headwings. I would buy based on your current seating situation and fit to car and child. If you need a narrow booster, the Parkway is great. If you have room for a very wide booster, the SK Monterey is great. If you have a very tall child, the PW is taller. And the SK can make the belt ride too far out on some kids shoulders. So there are plusses and minuses with either seat, but both are extremely well engineered and likely to do a fantastic job protecting your kid when used properly :thumbsup:

any safety issues: backless booster vs high back?

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