Sitting still in a BPB

drjanetm

New member
Did a quick search under "booster" and read some of the threads related to this, but there is one thing that I guess I still don't have the "answer" to, and also a question that popped up as a result of my reading:

1. Assuming my child meets the requirements for sitting in a BPB - weight, age, ability to sit still etc etc - why is a 5-pt harness still safer?

2. I used to use a Graco Turbobooster until I felt shamed into buying a 5-pt harness seat for DD (after she grew out of her Roundabout height-wise). When I used the TB, I used to pull the seatbelt all the way out and then let it retract so it couldn't be extended again (you know what I mean, can't remember the official name for it). But then reading the past threads, this is a no-no (I couldn't find any info on it either for or against in the TB manual). I would have thought this would make it inherently safer as it would mean a child would have less chance of wriggling out of the belt, sliding down in the seat etc, as it is snug across their hips and chest. Can someone shed any light on this?
 
ADS

KaysKidz

Senior Community Member
First off, none of your dc are old enough to be in a bpb. The MIN is 4yrs AND 40lbs. Your oldest is not yet 4, and I do not know her weight. So based on that alone, yes, she is safer harnessed. And even beyond 4yr & 40lbs, harnessing is in fact safer then a booster. Is a booster safe? If they meet the requirements, then yes. But they are safeR in a harness.

That said, can you direct me to where you saw that you are not to lock the seat belt when using a booster??? I've always heard that it's OK to do this, and what I do with a 4.5yr old 43lbs daycare boy I have.
 

skipspin

New member
A five point harness is safer for ANYONE. It will allow less head excursion, and especially holds anyone in the seat better in a roll-over type crash.

A high-back booster is safe when used correctly, but just can not be as safe as being harnessed.

Your daughter is *just* almost an age where boosters are recommended (my DD is about 6 months younger) in the first place, so that's one good reason to have a harnessed seat. Also, if she is under 40 lbs, then she is below the weight recommendation too.

I think that you will like using the 5 point seat. Also, she will probably be able to buckle and unbuckle herself easier in the harnessed seat, which to me is invaluable, especailly since I am expecting another in a few months. You have younger children to pass it down to, so I'm sure it will get a lot of use.

As far as "locking" the seatbelt, I am unaware of any reason that it is prohibited unless the car seat manual states not to.
 

KaysKidz

Senior Community Member
Here is a statement I've heard over and over by the techs...Each step up in seats, is a step down in safety.

Listed in order of safest to least.
RF (Infant or Convertible)
FF Harness
High Back Booster
No Back Booster
Seat Belt

So the longer you can delay moving from one to the next, the safer your child will be (providing they are not exceeding the seats limits!).
 

becca011906

Senior Community Member
I'm interested to see where/who/why you shouldn't/can't lock the seat belt by retracting it with a booster, i have my son do this most of the time when he's in his hi back booster... i heard it was better to keep him up in his place if he happend to fall asleep/ect (that doesn't happen very much), but still... TECHS??? anyone have info on that?
 

skaterbabs

Well-known member
The main reason we don't recommend locking the seatbelt with a boostered child is because if the child needs to belt locked in order to stay still, the child should still be in a five point harness.
 

bake1856

New member
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_...videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg


http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosirodi.mpg

These clips (hopefully the links will work) helped me make the decision to keep my dd buckled. She rides in a Husky 95% of the time and a turbo booster the rest. At 6 and really very mature I still have to remind her to sit up. If you notice in the video the dummy is sitting perfectly straight. So a child not sitting correctly could have worse results in a wreck.

karen
 

skipspin

New member
Yes, what Rebekah (Skaterbabscpst) said!

It's not that locking the seatbelt is bad, but if you have to lock it that means that your child isn't sitting the right way like they should!
 

drjanetm

New member
Thanks, everyone. At the time I bought the TB, I read that it had a minimum weight of 30lb, and didn't realise the law didn't actually allow it to be used at that weight. That's why she is now in a 5-pt harness (in case I didn't make that clear, as it seems everyone assumed I was still using a BPB!).

I do have other children to pass a new seat to, I'm just trying to work out the best combination. I already have 2 RAs, so DD2 is set for another year in that (DD1 grew out of hers heightwise at 36 months) and could then use the CarGo for a year (which will be idle when I get DD1 a new seat), and new baby will be set for 3 years in the RA. I love the look of the Radian, it's now a matter of confessing to DH that I made the wrong decision on the CarGo in the first place.

ETA: I never had a problem with DD moving, I just assumed it would be safer with the belt locked so I did that from the start.
 

kfelaco

New member
http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_...videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosipriori.mpg


http://www.oeamtc.at/netautor/html_seiten/kisitest_2002/videos/test2002/frontcrash/maxicosirodi.mpg

These clips (hopefully the links will work) helped me make the decision to keep my dd buckled. She rides in a Husky 95% of the time and a turbo booster the rest. At 6 and really very mature I still have to remind her to sit up. If you notice in the video the dummy is sitting perfectly straight. So a child not sitting correctly could have worse results in a wreck.

karen

Oh my gosh! :eek: These clips scare the heck out of me, especially the one with the dummy getting thrashed in the booster seat! I wonder at what speed these tests were conducted at. Regardless, that's enough to scare anyone into putting their "borderline" child back into a 5 pt harness.....
 

ingrid

New member
I mentioned to a tech that my son is in a 5-point harnessed carseat (a Husky and a Regent) because it is safer than having him in a booster seat. She asked if I had any references to studies that showed that harnessed carseats are safer than bpb for kids old/big enough to sit in a booster. I've done a quick look on the web, but didn't find anything definitive. It seems obvious, but does anyone have links to sites that discuss the comparative advantages?

Thanks.

- Ingrid
 

wendytthomas

Admin - CPST Instructor
Staff member
Oh my gosh! :eek: These clips scare the heck out of me, especially the one with the dummy getting thrashed in the booster seat! I wonder at what speed these tests were conducted at. Regardless, that's enough to scare anyone into putting their "borderline" child back into a 5 pt harness.....

Most are done at 30 mph.

That's what we'd do too, especially without airbags. :-( I want a harness. I personally want a booster, since I am constantly redoing my shoulder belt so it's not against my neck, and I have to sit as close to the steering wheel as possible so I can reach my clutch. Just not going to happen.

Wendy
 

scatterbunny

New member
Those crash tests were conducted at approximately 30 mph. They are European tests, so they were actually in kilometers per hour, but if I remember correctly it was about 30 mph.

They ARE scary, aren't they? When I came to this board 3 years ago I was about to move my 33 pound, 38 inch 2.5 year old into a bpb because she was too tall for her convertible carseat. The information I found here, including those crash test video comparisons, convinced me of the safety benefits of extended harnessing.

I also learned that even though boosters come with a 30 pound minimum weight limit sometimes, that's mostly to accomodate the very tall 5-6 year olds who are mature enough to use a bpb but who happen to be underweight. Still, the recommendation by techs and all the child passenger safety advocates I know are to wait until the child is both 4 years old and at least 40 pounds, bare minimum. My dd is 5.5 years old and very large for her age (stats in my sig), but she's still not mature enough to use a booster properly at all times.

On top of that, as the crash test video comparisons showed, five points of restraint protect better than three points of restraint, especially in a rollover or side impact crash. Those videos are frontal crashes.

There isn't really hard data comparing harnessed vs. booster; mostly it's just restrained vs. unrestrained. But it stands to reason that more points of protection can hold a body in place better, which is highly advantageous in a side impact or rollover crash. In a vehicle with stellar crash test scores and side impact airbags, if my 4+ year old, 40+ pound child were mature enough to use a booster properly I would probably go that route, or at least consider it. There are always factors to consider, more than one would originally think!
 

Victorious4

Senior Community Member
1. Assuming my child meets the requirements for sitting in a BPB - weight, age, ability to sit still etc etc - why is a 5-pt harness still safer?
Because a 5-point harness spreads the crash forces out more evenly to reduce risk of injury & also because they cover more points of the body to contain the occupant more reliably in lateral/side impacts + roll overs (occupants in 3-point lap/shoulder belts can fling out of the unprotected shoulder) ~ especially when the occupant is not yet mature enough to sit as still as the crash test dumby for the entire length of everty ride, including when asleep :eek:

2. ...I used to pull the seatbelt all the way out and then let it retract so it couldn't be extended again ... But then reading the past threads, this is a no-no
Hmmm, where specifically did you read this & by whom :confused: Engaging the Automatic Locking Retractor is acceptable (unless the vehicle manual states otherwise, but I've not seen that before) & in fact I prefer to use ALR for young children, especially those who must ride in a booster with other adults outside of skilled care (like grandparents or carpools, etc.) -- correctly used harness is safest, but correctly used booster is safer than incorrectly used harness :)
 
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joolsplus3

Admin - CPS Technician
ETA: I never had a problem with DD moving, I just assumed it would be safer with the belt locked so I did that from the start.[/QUOTE]>>

I've heard some preliminary data that it would be better if people did lock their seatbelts, as they can sometimes take too long to lock automatically in a crash... It was kind of a rumour, but I think it justifies your opinion :). I'll post more if I ever hear more about it. :cool:
 

becca011906

Senior Community Member
thanks for the info, i just had ds doing it b/c i had to have my middle dd retract her seat belt when she was in a turbo booster for about 5 months before i replaced it with a 5pt seat... after finding this great place. and my ds just does it b/c i think it keeps him reminded to sit how he's supose to but he's a good booster rider, although he's almost 7 years old NOT only almost 3 years old...
 

KaysKidz

Senior Community Member
The main reason we don't recommend locking the seatbelt with a boostered child is because if the child needs to belt locked in order to stay still, the child should still be in a five point harness.

Well I know in our specific situation, I don't know if he'd move out of place or not, since I've always locked the belt! It makes ME feel better about having him in a booster. Soon it won't be an issue, as I'll be dropping the 2 oldest from daycare, and won't have any kids in boosters.
 

drjanetm

New member
Sorry, I forgot to reply to the Q about where I read that the belt shouldn't be locked with a BPB. I can't remember which thread it was, but it was on here, although I could have misinterpreted what was being said, and maybe it was talking about using a locking clip instead? I was a tad confused, that's why I asked again!
 

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