Intalling a Radian in an '05 Town & Country

I've been reading about how hard this seat is to install, so I am worried that it was so easy for me. I have it on the passenger side in the 3rd row. It's a stow & go row. I have it FF and it is very snug without using the recline foot.

I admit that I don't understand the "forward of the bight" thing that I have been reading about. Can someone explain this to me and tell me if the T&C 3rd row has this? What should I look for in a proper/improper install? I followed the instructions exactly so I assume that would be enough, but is there something I'm missing?

It's fine as long as it moves less than 1" in any direction (front to back or side to side) at the beltpath.

Forward of the bight means that the seatbelt buckles come out of the bottom of the vehicle seat instead of the crease where the seatback and bottom meet (the bight). That puts the buckle a few inches away from the back of the carseat and can make it difficult, if not impossible, to get a tight install on some seats. I don't think that's an issue in your van.

edit: here's a picture of the GMC Yukon for an example.

Ah, OK that makes sense. Thanks! Yes, in our van they come from the floor a bit behind the seats.

I did notice that the seat is very slightly angled towards the left (looking at it from the back of the van). I think this is because the van seat is a little more padded towards the outside edge. I still can't get it to budge, so is this OK?

Well, I was wrong. I just went outside to tug on the seat again and it totally pulled froward when I pulled on the bottom front of the seat. I tried it in the captain's chair with no luck - same thing happened. I called USA Baby where I purchased it and it can't be returned or even exchanged for another seat. They said I can have a certified tech look at it and write a note stating that it doesn't fit in my vehicle - then I can exchange it.

AH!! This has been such a headache! Now I need to find a tech nearby.

When you check for tightness, check at the belt path. Use your weaker hand and try to move the seat from side to side, and front to back At the belt path.

I have never installed the Radian, but some here find that if you use the recline, you get a better install. ** Not the part that attaches for rear facing, but the part that pops out at the front of the seat for use forward facing.**

Forward of the bight seatbelts happen when the female part of the buckle is 1 - 2 inches in front of the vehicle seatbight (crease where the vehicle seat bottom and vehicle seat back meet).

Your T & C should have forward of the bight seatbelts since this is the same vehicle as the Grand Caravan's only loaded with more features.

The tether anchor for the 3rd row is located in the center position, so I will give instructions on how to install the seat there.

Start by lowering the recline foot on the Radian. This is the part that pops out of the Radian (*not* the foot that attaches).

Remove the vehicle's center head restraint for easier installation and stow in the under storage bins so you won't lose it.

Loosely attach tether to the anchor to keep from losing it between the carseat and vehicle seat while you are installing.

Position the seat approximately 1.5" out from the vehicle seat bight.

Open the velcro openings on the seat for easier installation.

Feed the lap belt through the forward facing belt path. Twist the female end of the buckle two full 360 degree twists and buckle the lapbelt. Pull the majority of the slack out of the 'tail' of the lapbelt.

Feed the tail end of the lap belt from the back of the seat, through the velcro opening to the front of the seat.

Kneel straight down in the seat (*not* back) and pull the tail end of the belt straight up and in towards the center of the seat to get all remaining slack out of the lapbelt. You may need to make sure the seatbelt buckle is not trying to untwist in a weird angle, preventing you from getting the seat tight (I'll include pictures so you know what I mean).

Check for movement by using your weaker hand AT the belt path. Give it a gentle tug looking for less than one inch of movement both side to side and front to back. No "reefing" on the seat when checking for movement.

If the seat is not tight enough, kneel in the seat again and pull more slack out of the lapbelt.

Once the seat is tight, feed the tail end of the lapbelt through the velcro opening to the back of the carseat again. Refasten the velcro openings.

Tighten up tether strap on the back of the seat.

Pictures... all pictures were taken in the third row of an '03 Grand Caravan with 50/50 split bench. It is the same design (with the exception of no stow n' go) as the '05's.

Here is the buckle side of the Radian. You can see the twist in the female portion of the buckle and the space between the vehicle seat and the carseat...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1411/980609912_80dce0ad90.jpg?v=0

Here is the opposite side of the Radian. Again, you can see the space created between the vehicle seat and the carseat. This is okay since it is space at the lower half of the Radian and not all the way up...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1429/980609960_18f7ed2f97.jpg?v=0

Here's the final install. The seat looks very reclined, bad picture angle (sorry). You can see the recline is popped down on the base of the Radian...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1059/980610250_183bdc014d.jpg?v=0

This picture shows the tail end of the lapbelt pulled through the velcro opening to the front of the seat. Much easier to get a tighter install by doing this...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1421/980610430_5a2b9432f2.jpg?v=1186020305

Just for fun. Here's three of them installed across the 3rd row. This picture shows that it's not always necessary to use the recline to get good installs. It is necessary on the split part of the 50/50 split bench, but not necessary on the outboard seats where there is no split...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/980610484_abcb043909.jpg?v=0

That description was extremely helpful! The pictures make it easier to understand, too.

In the T&C, the bench seat is 70/30 split with the lap belt and LATCH postion on the 70 part. The lap belt is also narrower than normal and it comes from behind the Radian with the female part being right up against the side. I tried exactly what you described in dh's car and got a great fit, though.

I talked to Russ at Sunshine Kids and he was really helpful. He said that if I want to use the outboard lap/shoulder belt I can twist the lap and shoulder part together 3 times at the male point after tightening the seat (unlatch the buckle to do this) and that will work like a locking clip. That trick made it considerably tighter as well. I lose the top tether with the seat there, but he reassured me that the Radian has very low head excursion. He also said to try it with LATCH since DD isn't quite 48lbs (actually she weighed 46lbs this morning). That is a very tight fit. So it will work with the lap belt in dh's car and both LATCH and outboard in the van. I'll play with lap belt position more in the van to see if I can make it work, but having the belt come from behind and then around the side of the seat seems very weird.

Thanks, again!

I have an '07 rental sitting in my garage... guess I'll stop being lazy and go try it there. It also has the 70/30 split with latch and should be an even closer match to your '05 than my '03 I normally have. I'll see what else I can come up with.

KsJET said:

I talked to Russ at Sunshine Kids and he was really helpful. He said that if I want to use the outboard lap/shoulder belt I can twist the lap and shoulder part together 3 times at the male point after tightening the seat (unlatch the buckle to do this) and that will work like a locking clip. That trick made it considerably tighter as well. I lose the top tether with the seat there, but he reassured me that the Radian has very low head excursion. He also said to try it with LATCH since DD isn't quite 48lbs (actually she weighed 46lbs this morning). That is a very tight fit. So it will work with the lap belt in dh's car and both LATCH and outboard in the van. I'll play with lap belt position more in the van to see if I can make it work, but having the belt come from behind and then around the side of the seat seems very weird.

Thanks, again!

Click to expand...

He said what, now? No, you cannot twist the male end 3 times. You can twist the female end alone up to three full twists if you need to shorten the buckle stalk. You can twist the male end of a locking latchplate one half turn (180 degrees) if it is not properly aligned to lock.

I know we all go to Russ for clarification on using the radian, but we have to remember that he's not a tech. It worries me that he's telling parents that it's okay to twist the lap shoulder belt multiple times to act as a locking clip. That's especially dangerous if they do not have locking latchplates.

Okay... went out to the '07

It is more difficult to twist the female part of the buckle, I can do one full 360 degree twist and that is enough.

The rest of the installation instructions apply. If I forcefully try to move it, it will still slide approximately one inch front to back but that is in the acceptable range and there is no side to side movement at all.

The female part of the buckle does not need to be twisted at all. If the female part of the buckle were to be twisted, you would only twist it a half turn to force the locking function to work. However, it is not needed in this particular installation.

I also agree that Russ is not a tech and should not be giving out advice like that. This is the second time I've heard of him giving incorrect advice regarding the installation of a child restraint.

crunchierthanthou said:

He said what, now? No, you cannot twist the male end 3 times. You can twist the female end alone up to three full twists if you need to shorten the buckle stalk. You can twist the male end of a locking latchplate one half turn (180 degrees) if it is not properly aligned to lock.

I know we all go to Russ for clarification on using the radian, but we have to remember that he's not a tech. It worries me that he's telling parents that it's okay to twist the lap shoulder belt multiple times to act as a locking clip. That's especially dangerous if they do not have locking latchplates.

Click to expand...

It did seem to make it tighter, but I wasn't very comfortable with that either. I'll leave it at the LATCH position until I figure out how to get it right using the lap belt.

I'll practice again when the kids are in bed.

When I was transferred to Russ, I was told he was a tech. Who/what is he? He was helpful, but I kept in mind that he certainly wasn't going to tell me that I can't get a perfectly tight install in my van because that would mean returning his product.

Jen, That is the best description of forward of the bight install I have seen!! IT is kind of a different mindset, cause you are not trying to force the seat tightly back, more like tightly DOWN into the seat...the dents in our vehicle seat from the bottom of the (very smooth) Radian being forced so tight down into the seat have still not faded after 3 days of the Radian being out. Found your excellent instructions just in time to give me a refresher before I head out tonight to try and re-install it for a trip tomorrow...Thanks!!

Yes, those directions ROCK! Thank you so much! I think I threw out my back doing it, but I finally have that sucker in and it won't budge! Using the recline foot and pushing DOWN is definitely what made it work. I did twist the female stalk one turn to get it as tight as possible. Pulling the slack through the opening in the cover for leverage is also great advice! I sent dh out to double-check and even he was impressed. We're definitely going to have permanent dents in the seat.

One thing I noticed - when I twisted the stalk a plastic piece popped out. I'm assuming that was just something to hold the stalk straight and nothing important, but want to be sure that is OK.

Our CarGo might not be the best seat feature wise, but after installing that Radian I realize how user friendly the CarGo can be! It has been solid since my first attempt which only took a couple minutes.

KsJET said:

One thing I noticed - when I twisted the stalk a plastic piece popped out. I'm assuming that was just something to hold the stalk straight and nothing important, but want to be sure that is OK.

Click to expand...

The plastic piece is just for cosmetics... no big deal if it's not there.

Thanks for the compliments guys. :thanx!:

KsJET said:

AH!! This has been such a headache! Now I need to find a tech nearby.

Click to expand...

What state are you in? Maybe there's a tech near you who posts here.

or

find a tech
find an event


oops, I see you got it. awesome! :thumbsup:

aidensmom02 said:

Just for fun. Here's three of them installed across the 3rd row. This picture shows that it's not always necessary to use the recline to get good installs. It is necessary on the split part of the 50/50 split bench, but not necessary on the outboard seats where there is no split...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1063/980610484_abcb043909.jpg?v=0

Click to expand...

Would you mind telling me what tricks you used to get it tight on the outboard seats? I might have to move it there at some point.

Same tricks as the lapbelt installation with a few minor differences...

*No need to use the recline feature
*2.5 twists of the buckle stalk (fairly difficult to do, but it can be done)
*Pull a portion of the shoulder belt from the back of the Radian through the velcro opening to the front. Use that as leverage to pull straight up and slightly in when tightening.
*Pay attention to where the buckle stalk is when tightening... it may try and untwist on you, so you may need to hold the buckle stalk in the correct position against the seat until the majority of the slack is out of the lap portion. Then you can continue to pull the remainder of the slack out of the lap portion.

You use the same basic tricks for pretty much any installation in any vehicle. Once you've got it figured out where to kneel when tightening, whether you need the recline feature down or not, how many twists the buckle stalk needs and where to position the seat initially on the vehicle seat... the installation usually takes less than a minute.

Since I know which tricks to use in the 3rd row of my van, I can get this seat in there in under 30 seconds. The majority of vehicles where I'm doing it for the first time take me about 2 - 5 minutes depending on the vehicle.