Pixelated
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Radians have a 44" standing height limit for rear-facing. Peg is 46". According to their manuals and stickers.
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News Foonf weight limit in Canada
- Thread starter tiggercat
- Start date
Radians have a 44" standing height limit for rear-facing. Peg is 46". According to their manuals and stickers.
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snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Given that this is a recent clarification from Transport Canada, it's possible that they haven't been checking the antirebound standard with the 6yr old dummy. (This came from TC only this last Friday - 5 days ago. So who knows how other companies have been doing it?)
arctic-owl
New member
Sorry we haven't neared any height limitations yet, I have short children, I guess I must have missed that. They are both still over the 43in limit though? I am really curious to know if the others have passed. I will be extremely disappointed if the limits are lowered to 40 lbs on my seats.
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
The 3yr old ATD is 37" tall. I have no concerns at all going to 37" and have actually questioned Dorel on where they're getting 36" from when they're testing it with a dummy that is 37" tall but haven't heard back from them. The Complete Air was 36" in Canada and 40" in the US prior to the rebound standards, so while I know rebound is affected with a bigger dummy, I also know that that 4" difference isn't related to the rebound standard since it existed from the beginning...
That being said, I've felt differently about height limits ever since the change in standards took place because I knew a taller child would rebound differently. This really confirms it though...
A big thank you to Clek for the information provided in this thread. I appreciate having questions answered in such an honest and straight forward way.
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
How old are your kids? It's unlikely that short kids would be over 43" already unless they're quite old? The Radian seats are rated to 44" rf'ing.
The limits most likely won't be lowered on the seats you already own even if other companies end up having to revise their seats based on this clarification. And at the end of the day, we don't know how other companies were testing their seats. The only way you'd see them lowered would be if the company issued a recall. This is fairly unlikely given the nature of the clarification and the fact that it's an exceedingly rare family that uses a seat rf'ing to a size where they'd actually be affected by a decrease from 45lbs to 40lbs and a corresponding lowering in height limit.
arctic-owl
New member
Yes, my girls are 28in, 34in and 39.5in. We are nearing weight limits more so then height limits which is why I was really looking forward to the foonf. I am really hoping Diono issues a statement about this as well, so I know the seats they are in are safe, as all 3 are still rear facing.
featherhead
Well-known member
But don't you think it matters whether the height is in the torso or legs? I would think that would definitely change things. So what happens if my child's torso is longer than the dummy's torso, yet under the standing height limit?
tiggercat
New member
featherhead said:
As the mother of a 39 inch kid with pretty much no legs (seriously, short little stubby things) and therefore longer than average torso, I have often wondered this. How can my kid be ok in a 40 inch seat but longer legged child of the same or shorter torso height not be? Or is he less safe because he is not "average"?
The more I know, the more there is to worry about.
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tiggercat said:
I think it's fine the question was asked. I applaud you for it actually. Someone would have seen the change on the website and asked eventually or someone else at the same show. I wouldn't feel bad for that.
I appreciate Clek's response and honesty. My only concern remains the timing. Having their reps ready to go with the latest information to share with the public at a show is commendable but not expecting this information to trickle down 4-5 days later in this day and age feels like shooting yourself in the foot. IMHO this FB incident was 100% preventable.
That said we held off buying the Peg seat today until the Foonf's do come in and we can try to install both in our vehicle (concerned about Foonf height with RF wedge on). We are still excited for the Foonf so I really hope it is worth the wait.
biddyk8
New member
Just thinking to myself is this why the Peg has the high rearfacing height but it has a restriction on the slots you can use RFing so if you have a long torso-ed kid you have to turn them probably before they hit the limit, but if your kids all legs you would get to the height limit?
I dunno if that makes any sense
Shanora
Well-known member
I'm still annoyed that TC is changing the way RFing seats are needed to be tested 2 years after the new regulations were introduced. WTF am I supposed to tell parents now??? Seriously this is really pissing me off. I get that things are tested and things are changed all the the time.... but come on... we just had the new regulations come into effect 11 months ago, and they are changing it again?? So all the seats on the market now that rear-face past the 44" are going to be recalled or changed? Parents are sceptical at best with the new regulations changes... how many more are we going to loose with all this crap coming out?
Someone Tell Barb she needs to come out of retirement and slap TC around please.
Someone Tell Barb she needs to come out of retirement and slap TC around please.
TechnoGranola
Forum Ambassador
Wait, who said TC changed anything? Or that seats haven't been tested properly? The Peg and the Radian may have been tested with the 6 year old dummy and may meet the standards at 45#. The 40# seats may never have been tested with the 6 year ATD or may have been and not met he standards, thus are only certified to 40#.
I sure as heck have my fingers crossed that everyone hasn't been testing wrong or that a new rule has been added!
--Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org
I sure as heck have my fingers crossed that everyone hasn't been testing wrong or that a new rule has been added!
--Sent from my iPhone using Car-Seat.Org
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
I'll do my best to clarify.
- The regulations have not changed
- Clek asked TC a specific question regarding the regulations and how TC wanted testing being done
- TC consulted whoever gets consulted in these matters when a regulation isn't perfectly clear, and came back with an answer that it seems was unexpected
- This could potentially affect how others are having to test their seats going forward, but isn't likely to result in any recalls - we don't know how other companies are testing their seats - maybe they are using the 6yr old dummy already and are passing rebound with it? I don't know.
We may see a reduction in rf'ing weight limits depending on how seats have been tested. But there hasn't been a change to the actual regulations. Everything reads exactly the same way today that it read 6 months ago. It's just that the clarification could result in a change in the way manufacturers do things. Whether it impacts the end product or not will depend on how a company was testing in the first place.
eta: There's nothing here needing to be communicated to parents. If we do end up seeing Diono and Peg lower their rf'ing weight limits, we may know the reason - and anyone who researches it will be able to come up with the answer - but to the average parent who asks "why is one seat this weight limit and my other seat this limit?" we will just respond the way we always do - "That's what the manufacturer chose to rate it to."
Even if we do see Diono or Peg drop their rf'ing weight limits to 40lbs, there's no guarantee that it's happened for this reason - there are lots of reasons that companies can change weight limits.
I'm with Techno on this one. As Trudy stressed, interpretation is the key here and kudos to Clek for clarifying their interpretation of the standard with TC.
Again, I support the transparency. We deal with dishonesty and cover ups all the time. How many haven't heard the old adage about a new Windows product and having to wait until at least service pack 2 is issued before you can achieve some useability and reliability? Its not a seat scenario but its an all too familiar one most of us have had to deal with and impacts us all simply because we live in a computer age.
Clek hasn't released the seat and taken back what they've said...they didn't skirt the buck at the trade show and have their people lie about the certification there even though they didn't have proper media releases set. How much worse would it have been for them to send their reps to the show and say pretend you didn't know? They didn't. They knew there would be backlash but they took the blows and are genuinely sorry for the mess.
And, I'm happy to see how much biomechanical engineering has gone into the seat. People, this IS innovative! Its really the best of both worlds melted into one big pot. Its very easy to pick apart the pieces and look at the negative but really, look at the sum of the whole - ya, its not a 50lb RF weight limit BUT its proving similar results in a FF orientation to a RF orientation for the 3yo ATD which is unheard of even in Sweden from what I am understanding. This is HUGE from the safety standpoint of our Littles which is the ultimate reason we are all here - keeping them safe and preserving their lives in a potentially catastrophic collision event. This is a huge engineering feat that has the potential to change the whole world of child restraint safety like Swedish engineering did years back with true ERF. This is honestly huge in and of itself.
Again, I support the transparency. We deal with dishonesty and cover ups all the time. How many haven't heard the old adage about a new Windows product and having to wait until at least service pack 2 is issued before you can achieve some useability and reliability? Its not a seat scenario but its an all too familiar one most of us have had to deal with and impacts us all simply because we live in a computer age.
Clek hasn't released the seat and taken back what they've said...they didn't skirt the buck at the trade show and have their people lie about the certification there even though they didn't have proper media releases set. How much worse would it have been for them to send their reps to the show and say pretend you didn't know? They didn't. They knew there would be backlash but they took the blows and are genuinely sorry for the mess.
And, I'm happy to see how much biomechanical engineering has gone into the seat. People, this IS innovative! Its really the best of both worlds melted into one big pot. Its very easy to pick apart the pieces and look at the negative but really, look at the sum of the whole - ya, its not a 50lb RF weight limit BUT its proving similar results in a FF orientation to a RF orientation for the 3yo ATD which is unheard of even in Sweden from what I am understanding. This is HUGE from the safety standpoint of our Littles which is the ultimate reason we are all here - keeping them safe and preserving their lives in a potentially catastrophic collision event. This is a huge engineering feat that has the potential to change the whole world of child restraint safety like Swedish engineering did years back with true ERF. This is honestly huge in and of itself.
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Just thinking to myself is this why the Peg has the high rearfacing height but it has a restriction on the slots you can use RFing so if you have a long torso-ed kid you have to turn them probably before they hit the limit, but if your kids all legs you would get to the height limit?
I dunno if that makes any sense
I somehow missed your comment when I read the thread earlier. I bet you might've hit the nail on the head.
Personally, I think that TC should allow a mix and match system of dummies for weight and height. If we know that structurally and biomechanically it passes with the 6yr old dummy, and we can weight a 3yr old dummy and know that it's passing rebound with the height of the 3yr old dummy, then I think they should allow a manufacturer to pick a weight from one range and height from another. Of course, just because I think something would be great, doesn't mean TC will see things that way, LOL.
But that really doesn't seem unreasonable to me...
_juune
New member
Would it pass the Swedish Plus Test forward facing?
Hypothetically? I suppose it's impossible to tell.Btw, is Clek coming to Europe sometime in foreseeable future?
snowbird25ca
Moderator - CPST Instructor
Just login through the facebook website?
bubbaray
New member
??
No forum option on the FB app.
Figures. They are trying to bury it. Very similar to Diono deleting FB posts.
I will say that I'm happy the family I was working with who were waiting for the Foonf gave up and got a Blvd (which they are happy with). I would have been horribly embarrassed
No forum option on the FB app.
Figures. They are trying to bury it. Very similar to Diono deleting FB posts.
I will say that I'm happy the family I was working with who were waiting for the Foonf gave up and got a Blvd (which they are happy with). I would have been horribly embarrassed
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