We went to Dallas last month. We flew Southwest both ways; on the way there we had to switch planes, on the way back we did not. Southwest uses Boeing 737s. We flew coach. We purchased seats for all 3 of our kids, including the 18 month old, and brought car seats for them to use.
Children are: Emma, 5 1/2, rides rear-facing in a Complete Air in the car; Bridget, age 3 1/2, rides rear-facing in a Radian 65 in the car; Maggie, age 18 months, rides rear-facing in a Radian 65 in the car.
We had SuperShuttle take us to the Burbank airport. The van was old, had no head restraint for the adults, and was difficult to install seats in. Plus it smelled tremendously like smoke, which is a severe asthma trigger for me. And the driver grumbled at me for taking too long because I had to deal with the funky long buckle stalks and was having a hard time getting a secure install.
For the purposes of the shuttle ride and plane trip, Emma and Maggie switched seats-- Emma rode in the Radian, forward facing, and Maggie rear-faced in the Complete Air. (Bridget was also forward-facing in her Radian.) We packed the RF boots for the Radians well-padded with clothes, in our checked luggage.
We had intended to use carry straps to carry the Radians, but my husband could not find them that day. *sigh* So, we instead put the Radians in the umbrella stroller that we had intended to have the baby ride in (I found that putting them a bit forward made them sit more stable-ish), and buckled Maggie into the Complete Air which we attached to a rolling carry-on with aid of the Travelling Toddler strap. We hadn't intended to but the suitcase held up well through 3 airports with her in it. :thumbsup: Because they weren't securely attached, the Radians were wobbly and I ended up using 2 hands to steer them while my husband pushed the double stroller with one hand and pulled Maggie behind with the other. Here's what this setup looked like:
Getting through security wasn't actually that bad. We were usually the only ones in the "family" line, which meant we had plenty of time and no pressure to disassemble and reassemble kids, seats, strollers, etc. Even the medication (liquid) we had to bring for our youngest, who has allergies, was not a hassle-- we just declared it, set it in a separate bin, and they did a swab test and returned it to us. Everyone was polite and friendly. We were not asked for ID for the children, of any kind, though at our first airport (Burbank) the security officer checking our IDs asked Emma what her name was and asked her her sisters' names as well (since Bridget, thumb firmly in her mouth, glowered and refused to answer, and Maggie is too young.) (They did not have to be "age verified" for Southwest's purposes, because they were flying on internet fares rather than child/infant fares, because internet fares were cheaper.)
When we got to the plane the FAs were a bit hovery, but once they knew that I understood that the kids needed to have the innermost seat (s) away from the aisle, they left me to it. One of them did check one of the Radians for a FAA sticker, since she had never seen one before (and probably because we carried them on folded, after gate-checking the strollers.) We found that we needed to detach the CA from the carry on to get it down the aisle. And it is not much fun herding 3 kids in front of you as you carry a 20 lb. car seat in either hand, but other than that it wasn't too bad. Southwest has open seating-- as travellers with kids under 5 we got to board between the A and B groups and had no problem on any flight finding the configuration of seats we needed. We chose 2 empty rows and put the older 2 girls next to each other in their Radians, one of us sat with them, and the row behind we put Maggie rear-facing in the CA and one sat next to her. It was the perfect configuration for travelling with 3 kids and 2 adults on an aircraft with 3 seats per row.
Here are the Radians:
They installed wonderfully-- only a few seconds to get each one in, just tightened through the front-- and even left room for the armrest to be down between them, if I had so desired!
The Complete Air was a wee bit harder. I had to pull back the cover to install it of course, but that's typical in most cars I've tried it in too. The seat just barely fit front-to-back, and I had to put the armrest up to make room for it. It sat at about a 30 degree angle while on level ground, maybe 32. The seats were nice and flat, so it wasn't too hard to get in once I wrestled it in to position. A few inches hung off the seat, but it was well within the 80/20 rule of installation-- more than 80% of the seat was on the airplane seat.
The FAs came back as we were taxiing and noticed that I had put the CA in rear-facing. They told me I needed to turn it around. I said she was within the weight limits to rear-face, they said, "No, that kind of seat can only be installed the other way." Using what I had learned on this board, I said what turned out to be the magic words: "May I see where it says that in the manual? It's my understanding that it is up to me to decide which way to put it as long as she is within the weight limits and it fits. I'm willing to follow your directions, but I would just like to see where it says that in the manual, please." I said it very politely, with my nicest smile and eye contact. They had a whispered conversation in which I heard, "She seems to know..." (I assume "what she's talking about" ) and "We're taxiing now, she can't change it until cruising anyway." So they told me they did not have the manual on board, but they would radio down and find out, and get back to me. For the time being I sat tight.
In the mean time, Maggie fell asleep as soon as we got moving.
Because we were climbing I found her head was falling forward, which would wake her up. I wedged a diaper beside her head next to the head wings, and that made it snug enough that she stopped falling forward and was able to sleep uninterrupted.
Halfway through the flight, the head of the flight crew (who had been one of the FAs talking to me) came back and told me, "We radioed down and I wanted to let you know that you are correct. The manual has been changed since I was taught and it is up to the parent to decide which way to install the seat." I thanked her very politely, and grinned when she left. Being polite even when I wanted to be sarcastic won the day! And that's one flight crew that won't hassle parents about rear-facing convertibles again.
The other flights were pretty uneventful and neither of the other flight crews said a word about the rear-facing convertible. The girls in their Radians were able to use their trays, and on the longer legs we let them watch a movie on the portable DVD player we brought along (we also had a headphone splitter so they could use 2 pairs and not bother the people around them with the movie.)
When we got there, putting the seats in my in-laws' van was an adventure (we put all the girls back in their normal seats, RF, because there were no tether anchors.) Before the trip was over we got sick of loading Emma in through the back, and ended up moving her to the middle seat forward-facing and tethering to the seatbelt behind her since we didn't have a need for all 7 seats again before the end of the trip. (I meant to take pics of all this, but never did...)
Once coming home we did the same thing-- switched the girls' seats around for forward-facing and put Maggie in the Complete Air. The only addition to our routine on the way back was to stop by Target, and get some adjustable bungee cords! They were VERY helpful in securing the Radians to the umbrella stroller (I just ran the bungee cords through the FF belt path, and attached them to themselves or the stroller frame, adjusting as needed to get a tight and secure attachment.)
Side view:
Back view:
On the way back Maggie was so used to the drill, she fell asleep before we even took off.
Bridget did get grumpy on our last leg, and complained that her legs hurt. (She's used to RF so is not used to the lack of leg support in a FF seat!)
But she quickly got over it when I told her it was time for dinner, and fell asleep before we got home.
All in all, it went well. Next time I'll just plan on the bungee cords because I think with all its hassles the Radian in stroller arrangement was still easier than carrying them on our backs would have been! I do think we may bring the straps (which my husband found AFTER we got home) in case we decide otherwise, or for getting down the aisle of the plane.
Also I might choose a different shuttle company despite the price difference. On the way back it still smelled of smoke, there was still no head support, and it was still difficult to put in seats, although this time the driver was not so rude and since I knew the tricks by then I got the seats in a bit faster.
Children are: Emma, 5 1/2, rides rear-facing in a Complete Air in the car; Bridget, age 3 1/2, rides rear-facing in a Radian 65 in the car; Maggie, age 18 months, rides rear-facing in a Radian 65 in the car.
We had SuperShuttle take us to the Burbank airport. The van was old, had no head restraint for the adults, and was difficult to install seats in. Plus it smelled tremendously like smoke, which is a severe asthma trigger for me. And the driver grumbled at me for taking too long because I had to deal with the funky long buckle stalks and was having a hard time getting a secure install.
For the purposes of the shuttle ride and plane trip, Emma and Maggie switched seats-- Emma rode in the Radian, forward facing, and Maggie rear-faced in the Complete Air. (Bridget was also forward-facing in her Radian.) We packed the RF boots for the Radians well-padded with clothes, in our checked luggage.We had intended to use carry straps to carry the Radians, but my husband could not find them that day. *sigh* So, we instead put the Radians in the umbrella stroller that we had intended to have the baby ride in (I found that putting them a bit forward made them sit more stable-ish), and buckled Maggie into the Complete Air which we attached to a rolling carry-on with aid of the Travelling Toddler strap. We hadn't intended to but the suitcase held up well through 3 airports with her in it. :thumbsup: Because they weren't securely attached, the Radians were wobbly and I ended up using 2 hands to steer them while my husband pushed the double stroller with one hand and pulled Maggie behind with the other. Here's what this setup looked like:
Getting through security wasn't actually that bad. We were usually the only ones in the "family" line, which meant we had plenty of time and no pressure to disassemble and reassemble kids, seats, strollers, etc. Even the medication (liquid) we had to bring for our youngest, who has allergies, was not a hassle-- we just declared it, set it in a separate bin, and they did a swab test and returned it to us. Everyone was polite and friendly. We were not asked for ID for the children, of any kind, though at our first airport (Burbank) the security officer checking our IDs asked Emma what her name was and asked her her sisters' names as well (since Bridget, thumb firmly in her mouth, glowered and refused to answer, and Maggie is too young.) (They did not have to be "age verified" for Southwest's purposes, because they were flying on internet fares rather than child/infant fares, because internet fares were cheaper.)
When we got to the plane the FAs were a bit hovery, but once they knew that I understood that the kids needed to have the innermost seat (s) away from the aisle, they left me to it. One of them did check one of the Radians for a FAA sticker, since she had never seen one before (and probably because we carried them on folded, after gate-checking the strollers.) We found that we needed to detach the CA from the carry on to get it down the aisle. And it is not much fun herding 3 kids in front of you as you carry a 20 lb. car seat in either hand, but other than that it wasn't too bad. Southwest has open seating-- as travellers with kids under 5 we got to board between the A and B groups and had no problem on any flight finding the configuration of seats we needed. We chose 2 empty rows and put the older 2 girls next to each other in their Radians, one of us sat with them, and the row behind we put Maggie rear-facing in the CA and one sat next to her. It was the perfect configuration for travelling with 3 kids and 2 adults on an aircraft with 3 seats per row.
Here are the Radians:
They installed wonderfully-- only a few seconds to get each one in, just tightened through the front-- and even left room for the armrest to be down between them, if I had so desired!
The Complete Air was a wee bit harder. I had to pull back the cover to install it of course, but that's typical in most cars I've tried it in too. The seat just barely fit front-to-back, and I had to put the armrest up to make room for it. It sat at about a 30 degree angle while on level ground, maybe 32. The seats were nice and flat, so it wasn't too hard to get in once I wrestled it in to position. A few inches hung off the seat, but it was well within the 80/20 rule of installation-- more than 80% of the seat was on the airplane seat.
The FAs came back as we were taxiing and noticed that I had put the CA in rear-facing. They told me I needed to turn it around. I said she was within the weight limits to rear-face, they said, "No, that kind of seat can only be installed the other way." Using what I had learned on this board, I said what turned out to be the magic words: "May I see where it says that in the manual? It's my understanding that it is up to me to decide which way to put it as long as she is within the weight limits and it fits. I'm willing to follow your directions, but I would just like to see where it says that in the manual, please." I said it very politely, with my nicest smile and eye contact. They had a whispered conversation in which I heard, "She seems to know..." (I assume "what she's talking about"
) and "We're taxiing now, she can't change it until cruising anyway." So they told me they did not have the manual on board, but they would radio down and find out, and get back to me. For the time being I sat tight.In the mean time, Maggie fell asleep as soon as we got moving.
Because we were climbing I found her head was falling forward, which would wake her up. I wedged a diaper beside her head next to the head wings, and that made it snug enough that she stopped falling forward and was able to sleep uninterrupted.
Halfway through the flight, the head of the flight crew (who had been one of the FAs talking to me) came back and told me, "We radioed down and I wanted to let you know that you are correct. The manual has been changed since I was taught and it is up to the parent to decide which way to install the seat." I thanked her very politely, and grinned when she left. Being polite even when I wanted to be sarcastic won the day! And that's one flight crew that won't hassle parents about rear-facing convertibles again.
The other flights were pretty uneventful and neither of the other flight crews said a word about the rear-facing convertible. The girls in their Radians were able to use their trays, and on the longer legs we let them watch a movie on the portable DVD player we brought along (we also had a headphone splitter so they could use 2 pairs and not bother the people around them with the movie.)
When we got there, putting the seats in my in-laws' van was an adventure (we put all the girls back in their normal seats, RF, because there were no tether anchors.) Before the trip was over we got sick of loading Emma in through the back, and ended up moving her to the middle seat forward-facing and tethering to the seatbelt behind her since we didn't have a need for all 7 seats again before the end of the trip. (I meant to take pics of all this, but never did...)
Once coming home we did the same thing-- switched the girls' seats around for forward-facing and put Maggie in the Complete Air. The only addition to our routine on the way back was to stop by Target, and get some adjustable bungee cords! They were VERY helpful in securing the Radians to the umbrella stroller (I just ran the bungee cords through the FF belt path, and attached them to themselves or the stroller frame, adjusting as needed to get a tight and secure attachment.)
Side view:
Back view:
On the way back Maggie was so used to the drill, she fell asleep before we even took off.
Bridget did get grumpy on our last leg, and complained that her legs hurt. (She's used to RF so is not used to the lack of leg support in a FF seat!)
But she quickly got over it when I told her it was time for dinner, and fell asleep before we got home.
All in all, it went well. Next time I'll just plan on the bungee cords because I think with all its hassles the Radian in stroller arrangement was still easier than carrying them on our backs would have been! I do think we may bring the straps (which my husband found AFTER we got home) in case we decide otherwise, or for getting down the aisle of the plane.
Also I might choose a different shuttle company despite the price difference. On the way back it still smelled of smoke, there was still no head support, and it was still difficult to put in seats, although this time the driver was not so rude and since I knew the tricks by then I got the seats in a bit faster.
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