Ok, I have a question about twisting the stalk

When I had Piper's seat checked yonces ago the tech (who was a police officer) said I had done a fabulous job, but he said that the buckle couldn't be at the point of the seat where it starts to go into the belt path. What he did was turn it around so that the female end was 180 degrees from it's "normal" and left it in the same spot, against the belt path.

Well, I was nervous about that because sometimes it would still go into the belt path. Then I came here and you guys talked about twisting the female end. So I twisted it. And to get the seat in as tight as I need to (Wizard in middle lap belt only, one of the non retracting types you pull it tighter, please what is the name of that type of two point belt?) I have to twist the female end down to the seat bottom. Far more than three twists.

So my options now are:
1. Twist it three times and let it be too high against the base, nearly to the belt path or in it.
2. Leave it like the tech told me before, just twist it a half and leave it in the belt path.
3. Move it outboard (not happy about that option).

And on that same note, the reason the tech gave me was that the buckle was stressed if it was perpendicular at the belt path, so he flipped it over. You want it down the base, or I would assume parallel would be fine as well. With the radian I can get a super install in the middle with that belt, but only if the buckle is about halfway through the belt path. Since it's not right at the junction of the belt path and "base" is that ok? It's perfectly tight and parallel IN the seat.

Thanks!

Wendy

Not a tech but i have ridiculously long stacks. Are you twisting three FULL twists (360*)? I tend to count each half twist b/c its a full twist of the wrist, if your twisting 3 full twists the belt should get a lot shorter but may have the annoying habit, if your belts are thick, of trying to untwist after you buckle in the male end. When you twist are you twisting just the belt you can see or are you twisting the whole stack (they generally go down into the seat at least 3 more inches) try twisting the whole thing, it should help make it twist better and IMO be less likely to break than the kinky three twists above the blight way of doing it (but be for warded its a PITA to get all the twists out once they are in the blight)

Its funny you should bring this up i had a question about it myself. I cant twist my belts three full twists b/c they are thick (3 layers of belt in the stack) I can only do one and a half before it starts to twist the long end but that doesnt get my belt stack low enough to the seat to install my locking clip outside of the belt path in some seats. The clip instructions say to install the clip as close to the buckle as possible but how far is too far? I have photos of an install i did recently of an evenflo discovery in my rear seat but even with a towel i had to clip it in the middle of the base. (i installed it and took photos for a fellow SVX owner who thought you could use both outboard belts to put the seat in the middle since there isnt a middle belt, i want to send proper photos so he knows what to do!)

Locking latchplate? Most lapbelts are locking latchplates, you pull on the "tail" to get the lapbelt shorter. Usually not too difficult to get a good install at all, but with a very long buckle stalk it can be.

I'm having a hard time picturing exactly how it is when the seat is installed, though. Can you take some pics? Of the way it was when the buckle was flipped just once, and without it flipped, so we can see how far into the belt path it is?

scatterbunny said:

Locking latchplate? Most lapbelts are locking latchplates, you pull on the "tail" to get the lapbelt shorter. Usually not too difficult to get a good install at all, but with a very long buckle stalk it can be.

I'm having a hard time picturing exactly how it is when the seat is installed, though. Can you take some pics? Of the way it was when the buckle was flipped just once, and without it flipped, so we can see how far into the belt path it is?

Click to expand...

Sure, but the hockey game is on now. I'll go out and snap some when it's over and post them this evening.

Wendy

No rush, do it when it's convenient for YOU.

I haven't gotten into hockey at all, but lately I've been loving soccer.

Ok, here they are.

The car seat as it is:
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/carseatasis.jpg

Stalk as it is (six full twists I think):
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/stalkasis.jpg

Stalk as tech said to do it:
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/stalkastechsaid.jpg

Stalk naturally:
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/stalknaturally.jpg

Stalk twisted three full times only:
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/stalktwistedthreetimes.jpg

The whole seat with the stalk twisted three times:
http://www.baz.com/wendy/carseat/stalktwistedthreetimes2.jpg

Thanks!!!!

Wendy

Your 3 twisted doesnt look like 3 full twists in the photo are you doing a full 360* each twist? My belts look more like your 6 twists after i get 3 full twists.

DreamingOfSpeed said:

Your 3 twisted doesnt look like 3 full twists in the photo are you doing a full 360* each twist? My belts look more like your 6 twists after i get 3 full twists.

Click to expand...

Yup, that was 3 full twists. I did them nice and slowly and counted them.

Wendy

For a locking Latchplate you should flip the male end 180 degrees to keep the seat belt from possible loostening due to regular use. This is what the cop should have done but he twisted the female end instead of the male end. It makes it harder to install but it will get super tight and will not loosen.
This may not be a concern with a locking latch plate but as Techs we always do it to chinching latchplates.
BethAnn
KISS (Kids in Safe Seats)
St. John's Newfoundland

Charlie's boulevard is installed with the buckle fairly close the the beltpath. I twisted the stalk once because that was all it would twist. The tech who checked it (who is an instructor and also the big gun for this area) said it was fine even without the twist. I called Britax and couldn't get a straight answer on it being in the beltpath or not.
I'll take pictures for you later. It's not as high up as your buckle is (what is up with these crazy long stalks?) but it's still fairly high. It lays right over the lockoff and is under the anchor bar.

If you can get the belt under the bar, like it is supposed to be installed with lap only, you might not have the problem of the buckle hitting the belt path with the 3 twists. Looks like it is hitting because the belt is over the bar. On my marathon, if I try to go over the bar, the buckle hits the bar, but under the bar, it doesn't quite hit the belt path. Only other option might be to move it outboard and see if you get a better fit. A good fit outboard is always better than a not so good fit center.

Dillipop said:

If you can get the belt under the bar, like it is supposed to be installed with lap only, you might not have the problem of the buckle hitting the belt path with the 3 twists. Looks like it is hitting because the belt is over the bar. On my marathon, if I try to go over the bar, the buckle hits the bar, but under the bar, it doesn't quite hit the belt path. Only other option might be to move it outboard and see if you get a better fit. A good fit outboard is always better than a not so good fit center.

Click to expand...

I can't get it under the bar. I've tried. I get about a foot of motion, since I can't tighten the seatbelt at all with it under there.

I really don't want to go outboard, I'd rather get a new car with a shoulder belt in the middle, but I can and I can get a great install there. I'd just really rather not.

Wendy

It's tough to tighten when it's under the bar, I agree. I end up pulling the slack part through the belt path and tightening from the other side.
She's still so small... if you want her in the middle, why can't you put her back rear facing?

Also, what I do with his seat to get a really tight install is do it with the anchors first.

I put it in, fasten the outboard anchors, stand in it, jump in it, push and pull, what have you and get it super duper tight. THEN I buckle it with the seatbelt, tighten the seatbelt as much as I possibly can, and then undo the anchors. That way I'm not trying to get the seat in good and tight AND trying to mess with the seatbelt at the same time. I've already got the seat super secure and then when I do the belt it's just a matter of getting the belt really tight. It cut installation time in my Aztek from over half an hour to less than ten minutes, because you don't need to have 6 hands to do it.

Anchors? No LATCH in my car, so that's out.

I guess if my options are RFing in the middle or FF outboard I'd chose RFing in the middle any day of the week and twice on Sundays. I'll play with it a bit more (right now my husband is working on my brakes and so my truck is up on a jack, not a good place for it to be while I jump around with the carseat in the back) and see if I can get a good install in the middle. Otherwise I'll just tell Piper it wasn't safe the way it was and she HAS to ride rearfacing. At her rate of growth she could be rearfacing for another two years or so, or until she's six. I think she'll be too tall for that then.

On that note, Britax says that the top of the ears can be at the frame for maximum RFing height. What about with the seats with adjustable headrests? Ears at the top of the frame or the top of the headrest's frame?

Thanks!

Wendy

Britax says that the top of the ears can be at the frame for maximum RFing height. What about with the seats with adjustable headrests? Ears at the top of the frame or the top of the headrest's frame?

Click to expand...

Britax actually changed this and now says "head even with top of shell", not tips of ears.

Also, I'm not positive, but doesn't Britax say with a lapbelt-only install that the belt should be routed under the bar?

It does, but it's impossible to do, at least as far as I've been able to do. The seatbelt will not tighten.

I'm going to try again tonight when Nathan is done putting my car back together to see about doing it rearfacing with the lapbelt under the bar. See if I can't figure it out. I don't think my shoulder belt will fit under the bar either, and I don't have LATCH. I mentioned a new car today (we've been talking about getting me a new one recently, but were thinking a year or two down the road) but since Nathan's been having fun fixing my brakes he doesn't really want to just give it up now. LOL We looked at the Mazda CX-7 last week and I immediately nixed it because it didn't have LATCH in the middle (not a big deal, though after this it may be getting bigger) and not even a TETHER! for forward facing in the middle.

You know, I do have a spare seat in my garage. I could install the radian. But I like the wizard better, and the whole point of the radian was to have a travel seat we didn't have to uninstall in a parking garage at 5:15 a.m. (like next month) or reinstall at 1 a.m. in the same parking garage. So I don't want it to be her primary seat. Plus the side impact is better on the Wizard, she sits up higher, and it just looks more comfy (I would say it was also more expensive, but I didn't pay for either of her Wizards. ).

Wendy

Wendy, I haven't read through all the responses so forgive me if this has been covered already...

It looks from the pics that the seat might be installed ff in the reclined position. While this is okay as per Britax instructions if the child is less than 33 lbs- it might be contributing to the problems here. If the seat is reclined, put it upright and see if that makes any difference.

Personally, in this situation, I would upright the seat (which puts the base closer to the bight of the vehicle seat). Then I would put all of my weight (back up against the roof for more leverage if possible) and compress the Wiz so far into the vehicle seat cushion that I (hopefully) can get that latchplate horizontal *inside* the belt path. The latchplate will stay locked as long as it isn't tilted at an angle.

I can't say for sure that it's possible to get the latchplate inside the beltpath - but this would be my initial plan.

Britax does say that you're supposed to route the lap-only belt under the latch bars but sometimes this isn't possible. And it certainly isn't possible if you're trying to get the latchplate up into the beltpath. It *is* acceptable to go *over* the latch bars with a 2-point seatbelt if you can't fit it under but feel free to call Britax to confirm this.

I would NOT twist the buckle 6 full times. That could reduce the strength of the webbing by 40% - which is too much. Flipping the *latchplate* can help if the belt doesn't stay tight. However, from the picture you took (stalk as tech said to do it), it doesn't look like the latchplate was flipped. It looks like the *female* end of the buckle was flipped and that won't do anything. If the locking latchplate isn't keeping the seatbelt tight then you can try flipping the latchplate - give the *male* end a half turn. Sometimes the female end of the buckle won't accept the male end if it's flipped (doesn't seem to be an issue here but I thought I'd mention it anyway). If that's the case - then give the female end a half twist too - so they're both facing the opposite direction.

HTH! Let us know how it goes.

Kecia Healy
Mom & CPST-I in NY

Thanks, Kecia.

I installed her RFing tonight in the middle, with the belt under the bars and one lockoff on (the other has the buckle in the middle of it).

My seat is very reclined, her seat is in the upright position. It looks very reclined, I know. It would be legal for her, she's less than 33 pounds, but it's not reclined.

I may just keep her RFing if I can. Bring it to class that way and set the tone, either let the tech stammer that she shouldn't be at nearly four, or say yippee. hehe

Oh, and an update on my neighbor. She's looking for the back of the booster, and she may look in her attic for her Marathon and put her daughter (5 yr 34 pounds) back in that!!! Yay! I told her I may do a little "crash test" session in my living room, a la Tiffany, and she was up for that with her daughter. And she was interested in a block check when I'm a real tech. I can think of three of the four families we hang out with often who need some sort of advice (like my 32 pound four year old neighbor in a high back booster, another who didn't know seats harnessed higher than 40 and so she moved her 3 (now 4) year old to a booster but doesn't really like it).

Thanks!

Wendy

I had the same problem w/ my wizard with the buckle being in the belt path when I had it in my old car. My radian was even worse since it sets lower than the wizard.

Heres a pic. of the radian installed.
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v481/remken/RADIANINSTALL.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

That's inside the radian, though, right? Wouldn't that be ok, since the buckle is parallel with the seatback, rather than perpendicular to it? There's not a lot of stress being put right on the buckle.

Wendy