Moved to Spain & need new Carseat

[wj2075]

Hi!

Thank you for this wonderful forum... researching this site helped me so much in buying all of our previous carseats. We recently moved to Spain, bought new cars and now daughter is reaching height limit for her carseat. I am in a bit of panic about what to do.

I bought a Mercedes A-class because it was the only car here in Spain that I could find with a top tether anchor. We currently use Britax Boulevards for son and daughter. Daughter is 1 inch from height limit, but very far from weight limit.

Daughter: 22kg/48lbs, 118 cm/46 inches, age 6
Son: 104 cm/40lbs, 17 kg/37 lbs, age 3.5

I want to keep her harnessed and top tethered as long as possible. It seems car seats here don't have top tethers b/c most cars don't have anchors. Also must seats here for her age are belt positioners.

Is it OK to buy a car seat from USA market or Swedish market and use here? I want the safest seat period, not what the govt deems safe based on the market here. Any recommendations of what I should buy?

Also my son is currently FF, but I am starting to think maybe I could still RF him. Could I do this with the Britax boulevard?

Thank you so much!!!!
Jennifer

[southpawboston]

no advice on the carseats. i just wanted to say i'm jealous! barcelona is beautiful!

[ketchupqueen]

At 6, and 48 lbs., I'd put her in a booster. There is no evidence that a harnessed seat is safer than a booster that fits properly at that age and weight. I'd shop around for a booster that positions the belt well and fits your vehicle and needs. :)

For a 37 lb. 3.5 year old, I'd get a Swedish rear-facing seat and keep him in it until he outgrows it rear facing (or is at least 5-6 years old and 40 lbs.) :) Check out http://www.carseat.se/ for information on Swedish rear-facing seats that are available for him (it's a sponsor here and also run by one of our members, who is very helpful and knowledgeable.) You cannot rear-face your son in the Boulevard; it has a 35 lb. rear-facing maximum. Also, technically your seats are illegal in Spain, as they are not EU certified (though many people don't care since the cops usually don't.)

All seats with EU certification are legal all over Europe. So Swedish seats are legal there. And you probably have plenty of booster choices, if you find a good baby/kids store.

[wj2075]

Thank you KetchupQueen!

I will check out the swedish RF facing store and see if Britax sells here in Spain for a booster. I figured my seats might be illegal here, but really wanted to use the tether strap since my car actually has an anchor. Hopefully, I won't get in trouble. I doubt if I got pulled over they would check (but maybe could make a difference if I ever had to make an insurance claim...). I am surprised by how many kids I see bouncing around without carseats!

I feel so nervous about a booster after watching all these crash test videos as to why harnessed is safer. But maybe my daughter is big enough now... I guess it may be more of an emotional issue of me not realizing she is a big girl...

@southpawboston - thanks! We are having a great time, except for dealing w/bureaucracy, which we have done a lot of lately.

[Adventuredad]

Car seats from US are not legal to use in Europe. You need a European ECE R44 certified seat to stay legal. To be honest, risk of getting stopped and receiving a fine is basically zero. Your son is too large to RF in the Boulevard, I believe RF limit is 35 lbs.

Swedish seats are all certified ECE R44 and approved to use in Europe. The weight limit and seat shell are both higher so you will be able to rear face your son for a couple of more years if you like to.

There are a few alternatives available to you. Car seat choices in Spain aren't very good, my BIL live there so I know......:whistle:

Seats in Europe don't harness forward facing past 40 lbs with one exception, Swedish Britax Two-Way. This seat does rear facing and forward facing to 55 bls. Approved forward facing to 55 lbs (25 kg) both with harness and seat belt.

Like guru Ketchupqueen say, harnessing and high back booster both offer the same safety. There is no evidence one is better than the other. In Sweden we don't keep any older kids harnessed forward facing since researchers believe it's safer. In US, harnessing older kids is common. Both methods offer good safety so either one would be good for your daughter.

You could still keep daughter rear facing although I personally think that would be overkill. Do you have Isofix in your car? Safest thing you could do, except for rear facing, is to get a high back booster with Isofix. Something like the Britax Kid Fix is the safest your daughter can travel in. If you don't have Isofix I recommend Britax Kid Plus or Britax Adventure. in Spain you will find some decent seats by Jane'. Selection varies greatly but you might find some in Barcelona.

Mercedes A-class has a pretty good size back seat so you would be fine rear facing your son there. Another alternative is installing a rear facing car seat in the font seat if you can turn off airbag with switch/key. Rear facing in the front seat is as safe as rear seat research has shown long ago. Using the front seat provide nice space both for child in front and passenger in rear.

Britax Hi-Way would fit perfectly in your car since it's a seat not needing much space. But at 104 cm. tall he might not have much room left. Britax Two-Way and Britax Multi Tech have a higher seat shell and he will be able to stay rear facing until age 5 or longer in those (if desired)

These seats are larger but only need slightly more space than Hi-Way and will fit in your A-class. You might need to slide front seat slightly forward though.

Both these seats do rear facing to 55 lbs and forward facing as well. Like mentioned before, TW does forward facing to 55 lbs both with harness and seat belt. Multi Tech does forward facing to 40 lbs with harness and 55 lbs with seat belt as a high back booster.

Below you will find two photos of Multi Tech and Two-Way. First one is of Lenas daughter who is 5, 118 cm tall, and 18 inch torso. Her seat is Multi Tech "Marcel". The other photo is of a 6.5 year old , 130 cm tall boy. I know this is very old for rear facing, he normally sits forward facing, but I just wanted to show that this seat can handle tall children rear facing for a long time:-)

Please note that Swedish Rf seats are not outgrown until tip of ears are at top of seat shell.

Multi Tech:


http://www.carseat.se/images/mt3.jpg

Two-Way:
http://www.carseat.se/images/twrf6arsmall.jpg

[Eclipsepearl]

Another alternative is installing a rear facing car seat in the font seat if you can turn off airbag with switch/key. Rear facing in the front seat is as safe as rear seat research has shown long ago

I'd be curious about this research because I read the exact opposite. The rear seat is always safer. Does this mean that only forward facing is less safe in the front? That would have been convenient but even the dealer couldn't turn off my front passenger seat airbag (VW Polo). By contrast, I only need a key to turn it off in my Yaris.

I'm surprised that you couldn't find tethers in other cars in Spain. You're just over the border with France and there are a few here. Not many though! Both my Toyota Yaris and my dh's Land Rover have tethers (but both only on outboard back seats). I had to really look. The Volvo dealership told me they could retro-fit them if needed but I can't confirm this (salespeople in France-another whole story!) I really recommend the Yaris for living in Europe for a number of reasons.

There are a few car seats in France with tether hooks but the EU doesn't test 5 point harnesses past 40lbs or 18 kilos. When Sunshine Kids wanted to enter the Radian on the European market, they weren't allowed to advertise harnessing past this weight so they dropped the project, since this is their main selling point. It could only be approved to 18 kilos.

Apparently, extended harnessing is allowed in Sweden. Wish the rest of the EU got on the bandwagon!

ITA about the booster. There are some nice boosters sold in Europe so get one that's comfortable for her. It's best if it can come apart because some cars in Europe don't do well with hbb. If it fits your car, she might be driven by someone else at some point. If that's not workable, you can always buy a lbb separately if needed.

Very few 6 year olds are in boosters. My 10 year old is still in one because although he's tall, he has a very short torso so he shows people how the seatbelt would cut his throat in an accident. This usually shuts both adults and children up from making comments. I recommend doing the same with your dd since this might come up.

For the record, I installed the Radian into a French police car once. They joked about it "liking" the French car...

Car seat use in Spain is so bad, even worse than in France so I doubt you would have any problems with even a very obviously foreign seat there.

But I agree, Barcelona is GREAT for kids. You'll love it there. Hang in there with the paperwork. It's grim over here but once you have everything, then it's over. Just be grateful you don't have to redo your driving licenses! (assuming you don't-it was awful in France!)

[InternationalMama]

OP, sorry I don't have any advice for your situation, but I am following the conversation with interest (for the future) and have a few questions for the other posters. I hope it's okay if I post them here. :) (For the record, I'd get the Two-Way as Adventure Dad suggested for your 3.5 year old and a nice high back booster for your oldest and I do have one little piece of advice at the end of the post. :))

I'd be curious about this research because I read the exact opposite. The rear seat is always safer.

I am also curious about this because I read that even if you can disable your airbags in a crash that disable feature might not work properly since airbags are essentially triggered by explosives and they might go off anyway.

There are a few car seats in France with tether hooks but the EU doesn't test 5 point harnesses past 40lbs or 18 kilos. When Sunshine Kids wanted to enter the Radian on the European market, they weren't allowed to advertise harnessing past this weight so they dropped the project, since this is their main selling point. It could only be approved to 18 kilos.

This reasoning makes no sense to me. I think their main selling point is a narrow seat that travels well, both of which are appealing to the European market. Most peopled don't want to harness past 40 lbs here so I don't know why they would choose not to market it because they couldn't use HWH as a selling point since it wouldn't be much of one. :twocents: SK if you're listening reconsider this!

For the record, I installed the Radian into a French police car once. They joked about it "liking" the French car...

Sorry to be OT, but Eclipsepearl: Will your Radian fit RF in your VW Polo? Do you have other car seats that do? I am just curious because there is a poster floating around who is looking for a US RF seat for a VW Polo.

Hang in there with the paperwork. It's grim over here but once you have everything, then it's over.

:yeahthat: Don't do what I did and give up on the paperwork. Then it never goes away.

[MariaGlez]

And that "floating" poster would be me! :) who is also following the conversation with interest.
Regarding the driver's license, US licenses are no good in Spain, long term anyway. I was told I had to get a brand new one...oh no! luckily for me I had an old UK license that is acceptable phew!
About the paperwork, I couldnt agree more, dont give up or it never..ever...goes away (well almost)
And about the Polo...PLEASE do let me know if the Radian fits RF. I rather get the Radian than the CA but didnt think I could get the Radian RF in there.
Thanks!!

[InternationalMama]

And that "floating" poster would be me!

Oh good, you found the forum! And how nice that there's a thread about Spain right as you join. I couldn't believe your good fortune that there is a poster with a VW Polo and a Radian.

BTW (to MariaGlez), I did a google search for you and found two people with a Two-Way Elite (pictured above in this thread) and they said that although the front seat of their VW Polo is still useable taller people prefer to sit in the back seat. So that gives you some idea of how a CA might fit.

[Adventuredad]

I'd be curious about this research because I read the exact opposite. The rear seat is always safer. Does this mean that only forward facing is less safe in the front?

This is really no secret and is stated publicly in lots of places. It's stated officially by Volvo, Britax, BeSafe, Swedish NHTSA, VTI, etc. Front seat being as safe as the rear hasn't even been debated by researchers for many years. It has not only been proven by research but also by real life usage (large percentage of Swedes use front seat for rear facing seats).

Rear seat is always safer, the only exception is a rear facing seat with deactivated airbag. You can rear more about it here. (http://www.carseat.se/rearfacing/position-in-vehicle/front-seat-safety/)

Apparently, extended harnessing is allowed in Sweden. Wish the rest of the EU got on the bandwagon!

It's allowed but you will find no older kids being harnessed forward facing. Researchers here believe high back boosters are safer, it's a long story but has to do with neck injuries, so we keep our kids RF until 4 and then use high back boosters. I do think it's good to have the option of harnessing a little longer than 40 lbs FF though.

[MariaGlez]

Oh good, you found the forum! And how nice that there's a thread about Spain right as you join. I couldn't believe your good fortune that there is a poster with a VW Polo and a Radian.

BTW (to MariaGlez), I did a google search for you and found two people with a Two-Way Elite (pictured above in this thread) and they said that although the front seat of their VW Polo is still useable taller people prefer to sit in the back seat. So that gives you some idea of how a CA might fit.

I know! I am hoping Eclipsepearl will respond and let us know about the Radian in the Polo.

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to look that up for me, I really appreciate it!

[Eclipsepearl]

Sorry, I only had the Radian ffing in the Polo, and not for very long.

I rf'ed with a Sit & Stroll but that's a really small seat. It's really hard to find convertibles that rf in this part of Europe. Maybe it's better now but almost impossible when I had my kids.

I don't see why you couldn't rf the Radian in a Polo if you push the passenger seat forward. Of course, this is not helpful if you have more than one child rfing in a Radian and/or you need the front seat for other passengers.

I really don't recommend the Polo unless you have just one child (or a second in a booster). I had the Polo before I had the third child and got rid of it soon afterwards. It was annoying as it did not have tethers and the center seat didn't have a shoulder strap. The Yaris has made my life much, much easier. With small kids, I really recommend getting the automatic locks and push button ignition. It's nice to not have to dig for my keys when herding my kids on streets and in parking lots.

I have a 10 year old in a lbb (he has a short torso and w/o the booster, the strap goes across his throat), a 7 yo in a hbb and the 5 year old ffing in the Radian. I got a skinny booster for the 10yo. I could NOT put three full sized car seats.

The Polo is not sold in N.America whereas the Yaris is so in theory, anyone interested could go to a dealership and try it their seats before moving to Europe and then trying to figure out which cars can accomodate their seats.

Scary thought about the airbag but I've only rarely used the front seat and that was when we had a friend along, which is rare.

I had a large Maxi Cosi which I did install ffing in the Polo. It was a tight fit and it was later stolen (so I can't check now). It supposedly can rf but I didn't try. A friend did and she didn't manage it and took the seat back to the shop. The sales lady told her "but your child is 9 months old. You can ff her!"

[MariaGlez]

Thanks for the info Eclipsepearl.
Oh, I am so no surprised about your friend being told to FF the 9 month old. DS is 20 months now and some months ago when we were out there, they were trying to sell me a booster because of his size...he must have been under 30lbs and about 30" then. Mind u, that doesnt just happen in Spain..in a different post I talked about how I was recently in USA Baby and BRU, here in the States, and they were trying to convince me to FF DS now because he is over 1yr old and he is "too old to RF".

I am seriously considering changing cars, now it is a matter of seeing what I can find and how much I can get for the Polo. I would b much more comfortable in an automatic since I am having a tough time with the gears. I cannot believe I am being so dense!! I really though I would have no problem with a manual car but the roads are so narrow and the traffic so crazy where we are....I guess I have been spoilt by the wide roads in the States :-)
I never considered the Yaris, I will look into it, thanks for the advice. It is all a matter of finances now.

I only have one kid and unlikely I will have anymore :-( so all I need is room for one car seat.
I think I am going to go for the Complete Air and then once we are in Spain and I have the new car I will look into getting a swedish seat.
Thanks for the advice again.