Info on Rearfacing?

[Unregistered]

Hi, I live in Newfoundland, Canada. I was hoping there where some Canadians on here that could help me out.

Ok so we do not own a car, not yet anyways. I am going through Driving School now to get my license and then hopefully we will get our own car.

We basically walk everywhere, except to go to playgroups. They come pick us up in a big van that already has carseats installed.

There are a few of the women there that are trained in installing carseats and they know the laws.

When my oldest hit 40 pounds last September 2 1/2 they moved her into a booster. We have a booster for her too as she outgrew her carseat for if we ever have to go in a car/taxi anywhere. I am planning to get a Graco Nautilus when we get our own car so I can get her back into a 5 point harness.

The reason for my post though is about Rear-facing. I have a 10 month old and they are trying to forward face her. They say the law is 22 pounds and can take a few steps on their own. I have been trying to explain to them that I will be keeping her rearfacing until she is 35 pounds. They think I am crazy. Even the other Moms do. They were all saying "as soon as my child was taking steps I flipped them around". They would say " I don't know anyone who kept their baby backwards!"

It seriously makes me sick to my stomach to see babies or pictures of babies facing forward when they are under a year old.

I would like to get some information maybe some videos on why it is important to rear face and show it to the women who install the carseats and do the carseat classes. I am having trouble finding Canadian Info.

Any help would be greatly appriciated!!!

Thank you
April

[canmom]

Wow. It sounds like they aren't very educated when it comes to current best practice or the law. Children must remain rfing until a min of 1 yr and 20, 22 or 23lbs depending on the child seat being used. However, the current recommendation by many is that children remain rfing until the limit of their convertible seat. The American Academy of Paediatrics recently changed their recommendation to a min of 2 years old. As you know, we now have many options to keep children rear-facing well after their second birthday at a min sometimes longer. Here (http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090612/carseats_090612/20090612/)is a recent story that was on CTV that make the recommendation that children rf until they age 4.

I'm not sure if I understood correctly, did you say you have a 2.5yr old in a booster seat? If so, she is no where near ready to be in a booster seat. Children are not mature enough to ride in a booster until around age 5. Do they have seats that can harness a child over 40lbs available to you on the bus?

Why Rearfacing is Safest (http://www.car-safety.org/rearface.html)
More resources at the bottom of that page.

[Unregistered]

Thank you. My older daughter is now 3 years and 3 months old. Yes they made her switch to a booster when she was 2.5 years old because she was 40 pounds. She is now around 48-50 pounds. They do not have any car seats that let you forward face after 40 pounds. I have just recently learned of the Graco Nactalis. I am planning to buy one for when we get our own car. I mentioned that car seat to one of the woman and she hadn't even heard of it! I have also found some car seats that harness to 47 pounds.

Every single person I know that has a child 40 pounds or more is in a booster around here. There was a law that came into effect July 1st 2008 stating that all children between 40 pounds and 80 pounds had to be in a booster. There was no age specified.

When I said that she was way too young to be in a booster they said it did not matter the age its the weight that matters. I don't even think she is tall enough for a booster. She is about 40 inches tall right now. So she was shorter then take back in September of last year.

[Shanora]

Unfortunatly the law in NFLD is Minimum of 20 pounds.
Newfoundland and Labrador
Children must ride in a rear facing car seat until they are a minimum of 20 pounds (9 kg).
• Children who are at least 20 pounds (9 kg) but less than 40 pounds (18 kg) must ride
in an appropriate car seat. • Children must ride in a booster seat until they are a
minimum of 4 feet, 9 inches (145 cm) tall, or more than 80 pounds (36 kg), or a
minimum of 9 years old.

There is nothing saying a minimum of 1 year. THAT being said it is MUCH MUCH safer to keep a child RF to the limits of their seat.

http://parenting.ivillage.com/baby/bsafety/0,,9r5v,00.html
http://www.cpsafety.com/articles/StayRearFacing.aspx
http://www.joelsjourney.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psmUWg7QrC8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRP7ynNI8mI&mode=related&search=

[TechnoGranola]

There is nothing saying a minimum of 1 year.Other than the child restraint instructions.

[QuassEE]

No offense, but the women you're entrusting your children's lives to are actually endangering their lives. Your child should never have been using a booster at 2 years old, 40lbs or not. We've had 47 and 48lb harnessed seats for about 10 years now in Canada, and we've had 65lb harnessed seats since before your child was moved into a booster at two years of age. As a parent, it is ultimately your responsibility that your children are properly restrained regardless of whether or not you're a licensed driver...Because *you're the parent* and you need to protect them... As a driver, it was the responsibility of the people transporting your children to ensure they were properly transported. This doesn't mean to the minimum of the law--your children are worth more than the bare minimums.

Fortunately, you're here now and you're receiving some great advice. It's time to re-evaluate how your children are being transported and to select some seats appropriate for their height, weight, and developmental level. You may even wish to print off some information for the women who are transporting your children, because chances are they're also endangering other children.

Stories like this really, really upset me, especially if they've mislead you somehow about their knowledge of child restraints and their use... If they've lead you astray about which seats to use and how, are they even installing and using the seats they DO have correctly? I doubt it.

I do apologize if I sound harsh here, but this is really quite upsetting!

-Nicole.

[Shanora]

Other than the child restraint instructions.

This is true....I must apologize for my baby brain...LOL I usually mention that Most (if not ALL) provinces and Territories have a proper use law which means that it's illegal to NOT follow the guidelines that the car seat manufactures have set up. All newer car seats are a minimum of 22# AND 1 year of age. In fact the Nautilus requires your child to be 2 years and 22 pounds to use it!

[momto2princes]

Oh my word....I am so glad you have educated yourself now. Those ladies are not keeping those children safe and I don't even want to think of what could happen to your daughter in a booster at her age.

First off I wouldn't wait to buy seats for your own car I would buy the seats now and find a tech (if there is one) to show you how to install them. If you must travel with that bus then if I were you I would be using my own seats and installing them myself each and every time or I wouldn't be riding in that vehicle. In this situation there are no shades of grey only black and white.

If you must use their seats find out which seats they have and read up on the manuals. Check each time that the seat is installed correctly before placing your precious cargo in it.

The facts speak for themselves your daughter needs to be harnessed at her age booster requirements from manufactures are usually 40lbs AND 4 years old. The 10 month old should remain rear facing for quite some time yet. The minimum is 20lbs AND 1 year but all children should continue to rear face until the limits of the seat.

You don't want to play the "what if" game with your childrens lives. If anyone gives you a hard time about it stick up for yourself and don't be bullied into doing something you don't agree with or know is wrong just because they may be looking at you like you have 2 heads! LOL
Send them and link to this forum and I am sure there would be many ready and waiting to set them straight.

[hipmaman]

Every single person I know that has a child 40 pounds or more is in a booster around here. There was a law that came into effect July 1st 2008 stating that all children between 40 pounds and 80 pounds had to be in a booster. There was no age specified.

When I said that she was way too young to be in a booster they said it did not matter the age its the weight that matters. I don't even think she is tall enough for a booster. She is about 40 inches tall right now. So she was shorter then take back in September of last year.

They are correct about the weight that matters. But weight matters only because you can only use the seat to the max weight and and not more. When a child is more than the max weight of said harness seat, then we move the child to another harness seat with higher weight limit if the child is too young/too immature to sit properly in a booster seat.

When in booster seat, the only safety device is the vehicle seatbelt. It cannot be effective if the child is too young or not mature enough to sit properly ie. no leaning, no slumping, no slouching, etc. Usually this means at least around 5-6 yrs old, not a 2 or 3 yrs old.

If your mommy intuition says that she is not tall enough to be in a booster, you are probably right. I'd get her back into a harness seat.

It sounds like those ladies are doing what is easy (bare legal minimum) instead of what is right/safest for the children in their trust.

[April]

All newer car seats are a minimum of 22# AND 1 year of age. In fact the Nautilus requires your child to be 2 years and 22 pounds to use it!

The Nautilus does not have a 2 year minimum. The Frontier has a minimum of 2 and 25lbs.

[abemom2]

We don't own a car either, but I own at present 3 car seats. I had more, but the infant gave away (and can't wait to get the keyfit this winter.) and the AOE I also got rid of.

We install/uninstall as needed. My kids are small, so my 3 year old is still in the Scenera (12.5" torso), but will get him a TrueFit when we get a car, before the winter. We've been here too many winters without a car.

Definitely buy 1 car seat for your older daughter, and you'll use now and also when you get a car.

We can go by weeks without using the seats, or use it for 2 weeks straight. Depends on the time.

Good luck!

[Unregistered]

Thank you everyone for all your info and suggestions!

I was wondering though are there any other car seats here in Canada (well available to NL) that has a higher harness weight? The Nautalis is very expensive. It is 250 plus tax which is 13% here in NL. So it will be close to $300 for this car seat.

[mommycat]

All the seats listed in this thread have a higher harness weight and are available in Canada:
http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=36056
Some will last longer than others and some make better boosters than others. You could also buy a good convertible (the Radian XT, the TF and the new AOEs RF to 35 lbs) and then pass it down to the baby and buy a Nautilus later.

If you can't find a store which carries the seat you want locally, many on-line stores will ship to you, like TRU/BRU (http://www.toysrus.ca/home/index.jsp?categoryId=2567270) and babyproofingplus.com or sears.ca. Some of these seats you should be able to find at a local Walmart or Zellers if you really don't want to order on-line.

Have a look at the seat options and let us know which you are thinking, we can answer any questions you don't find while searching the board.

ETA It's still not much better, but my Zellers has the Nautis in now for $239.95. With 13% tax (same as here in NS) it works out to $271 and change.

[sparkyd]

All the seats listed in this thread have a higher harness weight and are available in Canada:
http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=36056
Some will last longer than others and some make better boosters than others. You could also buy a good convertible (the Radian XT, the TF and the new AOEs RF to 35 lbs) and then pass it down to the baby and buy a Nautilus later.

If you are considering the convertible route, the True Fit sells regularly for $200, but it goes on sale at Zellers quite frequently for $150. The AOEs don't make great boosters, so you'd want to take that into account when sorting out the costs since you might not want to use it as a booster when the time comes.

[Unregistered]

Here are some links to a few car seats that I found in Sears. What do you guys think of the first one? It harnesses to 65 and is a bit less expensive then the Nautilis. The last one doesn't say how much weight it harness to it just says to 100 pounds. So I am not sure about that one.

http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B00295WNCW/sr=1-6/qid=1246031755/ref=sr_1_6/184-4089267-5582146?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=397280011

http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B001MG6YVU/sr=1-3/qid=1246032126/ref=sr_1_3/184-4089267-5582146?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=397280011

http://www.sears.ca/gp/product/B001MGB2D0/sr=1-8/qid=1246032126/ref=sr_1_8/184-4089267-5582146?ie=UTF8&searsBrand=core&mqnodeid=397280011

[momto2boysinOnt]

The first one is the Apex. It's a decent seat, but it does require support from a headrest behind it, so it's not a great choice if you're not 100% sure that you will always be using it in a car with headrests.

The third one is the Evenflo Chase. They harness to 47 lbs in Canada, and make only a so-so booster afterwards. The Chase is a reasonable choice for kids who outgrow seats by height long before weight, but it's not as good a choice as the Apex or the Nautilus for heavier kids.

I will second the suggestion of trying to find a True Fit on sale at Zellers. It is a nice roomy seat for bigger kids, and quite easy to install in any vehicle. It doesn't convert to a booster, but with the 65 lb harness limit and high top harness slots it will last most kids a good long time. I just bought one for my parents' car. It will likely never be used RFing, but I still consider it to be good value for the money.

[mommycat]

Another note on the Chase, you can get a Chase model (might be diffferent padding etc but essentially the same seat) for $99.99 at Walmart, Zellers, or Canadian Tire (here it is on CT online (http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/4/Auto/AutoSafetySecurity/ChildSeats/PRDOVR~0466225P/Evenflo%2BChase%2B2-in-1%2BCar%2BSeat.jsp)) or BRU (http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3417285&cp=3021052.3021052&parentPage=family) - or this one on sale at BRU for $89.97 (http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3424212&cp=3021052.3021052&parentPage=family) but check for DOM on sale seats for sure. So if you go with that, shop around. A sister seat to that which you can find for about $140 is the Evenflo Generations (or Bolero) - it also harnesses to 47 lbs but makes a little bit better booster later on. I saw this at our local Zellers two days ago but they weren't sure if they would be carrying it or if it was a one-off batch. Here it is on TRU's website. (http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=3424213)
You can get an older cover Apex off BRU for $149.99 (http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=2852940&cp=3021052.3021052&parentPage=family) (again, check DOM) but I also caution about the need for headrests and say it's probably not a great choice for you since you travel in different vehicles and don't know what you will have.

[Jennee]

i have the nautilus for my almost 3 year old son. im in ns.
i did find the price quite high but i got it on roll back at walmart, i think it was 199. keep an eye out there.
also it really does feel good to know that hes in the seat that is best for him. also, i plan to keep him in the harness as long as i can to get as much use of the seat as possible.
if i hadnt bought this seat then as soon as he turned 40 lbs im sure i would have switched him to a booster.
the ladies here told me about the benefits of the nautilus over the apex and after talking it over with the hubby we decided it would be best to invest the extra money and get the nautilus.
we dont know what we will be driving next year, we might need the head support this gives.
good for you for wanting to keep your kids as safe as possible and good luck with your decision!