We've got a big problem

[Aristiana]

My minivan doesn't have top tether slot on the 3rd row, except the center. 2nd row, 2 top tether slot. I have 4 children, all of them needs a car seat. A baby, 2 toddlers and a preschooler. Baby is still using the bucket, soon will be in a RF. The toddlers are twins, 25lbs, FF. The preschooler is on a noback booster. He's not yet 4, but already 48lbs and 41".

I know it's not the best configuration, but here's my problem. The preschooler must be on a noback booster because I remove the booster and fold the seat to be able to go on the 3rd and secure the twins. I can't imagine myself removing a fully secured car seat every single time I bring the twins and the older child with me. It's impossible to access the 3rd row without folding one of the seat on the 2nd row.

So I'll sum up the problems:

- A young preschooler on a booster
- Twins FFing, not attached on the top tether.

By the way, the FFing are attached via the belt, not LATCH. I spoke with a local paramedic who was there to tell us about proper car seat usage. He couldn't find any solution for my problems.

Here's picture to help you understand.
http://www.aristiana.com/gallery/d/11262-2/DSCN3592.JPG
http://www.aristiana.com/gallery/d/11258-2/DSCN3589.JPG
http://www.aristiana.com/gallery/d/11254-2/DSCN3586.JPG

Thank you for your help.

[safeinthecar]

Do you have any other seats beside the ones pictured?

What are your goals for this situation? Do you want the 4 yo in a high back booster or in a harness? Does he sit still in the booster he rides in now would be a good starting point for this decision) Can the twins be changed to rfing, or are you just trying to get them tethered ffing?

What is your budget to fix things?

Edit: I misread and thought your son WAS four. That being the case I suggest a 5 pt harness.

[QuassEE]

What vehicle is that? (I'm guessing Windstar, but I'm not sure..)

[hipmaman]

Just a note that original poster is in Canada so top tether is required...

There are things that need to be fixed (as you mentioned) but can you state what van are you driving (year, model, etc.)? What seats are the kids in (brand, model, etc.). Thanks.

[Aristiana]

My minivan is a Pontiac Montana 2004.

The problem is bigger than that... I spoke a few days ago about my husband getting in an accident, no children aboard. We're still fighting with the insurance company to have the seats replaced. (Thanks to your help, I'm now waiting for a document from Allport to force them.)

My budget? Non-existent. All I hope is for the insurance company to send a big cheque and I will get better car seats.

I have 2 Schwinn Touring (rebranded Summit), Evenflo no back Big Kid and an old Safety 1st RF-FF that will be soon expired anyway. (I previously said the baby is using the bucket... Must had have a brain fart, we changed the baby in the Safety 1st seat a month ago)

But I may also end-up with the same thing again, except the Safety 1st, which is discontinued. It depends on the insurance company.

[ketchupqueen]

It's now summer so they're probably not any more, but for next winter's reference, they need to not be wearing those heavy clothes in the car. :)

[QuassEE]

It sounds like you have stowable seats and not the regular bench (which has more TAs) in the back.

My advice to you has to be this: Firstly, get that 3 year old out of a backless booster and back into a higher weight harness. I cannot imagine how much any 3 year old boy would move around in a backless booster. I can't even see my 4 year old daughter using a fullback booster, let alone a backless. Next, let's consider turning those twins rear-facing and eliminating the tether anchor issue for a while yet. It may not be the most convenient option, but it is by far the safest. It also eliminates your need of rear tether anchors.

By the time you need to turn the twins forward-facing, your 3 year old may be closer to being ready to move into a (fullback) booster by that point. You really only have one child who needs a tether anchor--your oldest. Yup, getting in and out of the car is going to become a little less convenient, but such is life with four kids (I also have four).. I often use the back hatch to get my rear-facers into the back row.

In the future, you'll end up facing this problem again--but hopefully even once your oldest goes into a fullback booster, your baby can be rear-facing in that back row while your twins are tethered in the middle row, once FF.

KQ also mentioned--it's important to eliminate any additional padding between the child and seat and the child and harness..snowsuits are a big no-no, because they compress in a crash causing slack in the harness and they also often give you a false sense of tightness of the harness.

-Nicole.

[April]

It sounds like you have stowable seats and not the regular bench (which has more TAs) in the back.

My advice to you has to be this: Firstly, get that 3 year old out of a backless booster and back into a higher weight harness. I cannot imagine how much any 3 year old boy would move around in a backless booster. I can't even see my 4 year old daughter using a fullback booster, let alone a backless. Next, let's consider turning those twins rear-facing and eliminating the tether anchor issue for a while yet. It may not be the most convenient option, but it is by far the safest. It also eliminates your need of rear tether anchors.

By the time you need to turn the twins forward-facing, your 3 year old may be closer to being ready to move into a (fullback) booster by that point. You really only have one child who needs a tether anchor--your oldest. Yup, getting in and out of the car is going to become a little less convenient, but such is life with four kids (I also have four).. I often use the back hatch to get my rear-facers into the back row.

In the future, you'll end up facing this problem again--but hopefully even once your oldest goes into a fullback booster, your baby can be rear-facing in that back row while your twins are tethered in the middle row, once FF.

KQ also mentioned--it's important to eliminate any additional padding between the child and seat and the child and harness..snowsuits are a big no-no, because they compress in a crash causing slack in the harness and they also often give you a false sense of tightness of the harness.

-Nicole.

:yeahthat:

I agree that the #1 priority should be to get your 3 year old back into a harnessed seat. Your second row has adjustible headrests, so the most economical option for a child of that age and weight would be the Safety First Apex, which harnesses to 65 lbs and then turns into a highback booster. So that seat could last him quite a few years. This one is $149 at toys r us now: http://www.toysrus.ca/product/index.jsp?productId=2852940&cp=2582967.3021052.3021052&parentPage=family

I also think its very seriously worth considering turning your twins back rear facing. Its safer, they fit, and it would eliminate the need to tether their seats, at least until they hit 35 lbs and must going forward facing. You could put them both in the third row side by side, and then put baby in the second row beside big brother.

I realize its sometimes very difficult to find a safe AND convenient configuration when you have four kids (so do I), but we can most definitely help you make them safer than they currently are.

[bubbaray]

Another vote for get that 3 or 4yo into a 5pt harness, like, yesterday. Turn the twins RFg.

If you can swing the price, get a Nautilus for the 4yo. For the twins, I'd get 2 TrueFits -- they regularly go on sale at Zellers, you can RF them to 35lbs and the top slots are a decent height.

IIRC, northermommy on this board has a Venture which is similar to your Montana. Maybe she will chime in on this thread.

[northernmommy]

Here I am!

Good news for you...your 2nd row seats MAY be able to be flipped forward with a seat installed, if you use LATCH/UAS, and it's a ffd facing seat. There is a long lever down by the floor that may release the back of the seat from the floor brackets, allowing you to get past it. I say MAY, because there are different configurations for that van. I'll try and get outside today to take a picture of what I mean.

I can easily get past my seats to teh back row when doing this, but it only works is you install with UAS/LATCH. I've been known to occasionally flip the seat with a child strapped in as well...my kids refer to it as "going for a ride" lol.

I second everyone's suggestion to RF your twins. When they get too big, then you can re-evaluate.

Hope that helps, and I'll try post back with pics ASAP.

[northernmommy]

But I may also end-up with the same thing again, except the Safety 1st, which is discontinued. It depends on the insurance company.

As an aside, if the insurance company insists that yo replace teh seats with identical one, it might be possible to submit copies of the reciepts, then after you get your cheque, rtn the seats and use the money to get seats that are more approprite for your situation.:twocents:

[Kristy00]

I have a pontiac montana as well, and have a hard enough time getting my 3 kids in there, never mind 4.

I just want to address your comment of it being impossible to reach the 3rd row without putting a seat down. This is definitely not the case - I do it multiple times every day. It is not that hard - get in the van from one of the 2nd row doors, side-step in front of one of the carseats, then walk/reach down the middle space to do up the child(ren) in the back seat. My DD automatically knows to tuck her feet up into her seat after I buckle her in so I can walk past and to the 3rd row to do up her brother.

[marciemp]

I have a 2005 Chevy Uplander, so it is very similar to a Montana. We have 3 kids but very often have 4 with us, and we are expecting number 4 in December. I also have an older child and twins (the baby soon!) In our van we have the oldest harnessed in the back seat using the tether, and the twins are in the second row. One of the seats has LATCH, and the other does not (because it has a crappy built in car-seat) Behind the drivers side is where the lower anchors are, your van must have them as well? You can install a car-seat there using the LATCH system, and then flip it forward to help the child in the back seat buckle up, there is a handle at the bottom of the seat that makes it tilt forward. We plan on putting the baby in the back rear facing in a carrier carseat with a base, so we just have to lift the car-seat (and baby) in to the base and make sure it clicks in properly. To do this we will install the oldests seat in the middle back, the baby on the drivers side back, and the twins where they are now, in the second row, one installed with the seat belt and the other with the LATCH so the seat can be flipped forward to get the baby and oldest in. If your baby is small enough to still be in a bucket (there are some that go to 30 and 32 pounds now) you could try this. Our thought is that once the baby is too big for the bucket we will move the baby to rear facing in the second row, the oldest to a full back booster (she will be old enough by then) and one of the twins to the back row in a harnessed seat using the tether, since the oldest will no longer need the back tether using a booster.

If you want to or need to put the twins rear facing again, maybe put the oldest in a harness and one twin rear facing in the back, the baby in a bucket with base using LATCH in the second row so you can flip that seat to get in the back and help the kids in there, and the other twin in the second row rear facing.

Also as some one above mentioned you can climb in the van and go between the second row seats to get the kids in the back. I do it in the winter when it is really cold because we start the van to warm it up, then we all run out, hop in the sliding door, close the door and take off the winter coats so they can be strapped in. My mom also climbs in past the twins in the second row to sit in the back with the oldest sometimes, we just tell the one we are going past to put their feet up!

Depending on the day, I also lean over the second row seats from the door (I have to stand on the edge of the doorway in the van) and do up seats or help with the straps in the back row. None of it is all that easy but I am used to it. Helps a lot that the oldest can strap and unstrap herself, and can unstrap her siblings too.

So if you can, put the baby back in a bucket with a base, put them rear facing in the back with the oldest, who is harnessed and using the tether. The oldest is the best choice for back seat since they are less likely to poke the baby, and can usually be taught to buckle themselves in (then you just need to do a quick check to make sure it is right). Then put the twins in the 2nd row, using the LATCH, so you can flip a seat for getting the baby in and helping the oldest.

And for winter, out everyone in winter coats only, start the van before you leave so it is warm, all climb in take off coats and then strap in. A pain in the behind when it is minus 30 but worth it. My kids would never ride with coats by their own choice because it is so uncomfortable! They even take off light jackets! If it is really really cold and we can't start the van (like your at the mall shopping or something. We all climb in, take coats off, buckle in, then put coats on backwards over the straps. My kids think it is hilarious because I flip their hoods up and ask them why their heads are on backwards!

[Aristiana]

Well, after talking to my husband and thinking it through, we decided to order 3 Radian. I've got them at 199$ on sale. 3 Radian fit on the 3rd row so one of the captain chair will be free. This way the twins and my oldest child will be harnessed. I also called Pontiac and they can modify my 3rd row seat to have 3 top tether anchors. It's pretty much the only option left since I've discovered, this weekend, that baby #5 is coming!

[Kristy00]

Well, after talking to my husband and thinking it through, we decided to order 3 Radian. I've got them at 199$ on sale. 3 Radian fit on the 3rd row so one of the captain chair will be free. This way the twins and my oldest child will be harnessed. I also called Pontiac and they can modify my 3rd row seat to have 3 top tether anchors. It's pretty much the only option left since I've discovered, this weekend, that baby #5 is coming!


Wow! I was told by pontiac that there was no way to add any more anchors to the 3rd row. I'll have to look into this because it is a pain to only be able to put DS in the middle. No one else can fit in that last row!!