RF Tether Britax vs Coccoro

[autumnlily]

WARNING - huge rambling post

I'm still in limbo in regards to my comfort with the Coccoro.

Here's why - I'm used to using Marathons RF and they are sturdy buggers (even when they are not tethered RF). I'm so use to the extremely tight install of the Britax - for the entire seat.

I know it is okay to have up to 1" in movement, but I've always been able to obtain a no movement to less than 1/4 inch movement.

I'm hesitant with the Coccoro - because, 1. I can't use a RF tether and I prefer not deal with the shoulder belt european routing option. 2. Although the seat does not move at belt path - it moves more than I would like near the top of the shell or even the center of the seat when leaned against it(but the belt path remains extremely tight)... I find my self double checking the seat all the time. I also worry about the install in my DH car and parent's car... I will have to do it for them.

I know RF tethering is intended to stop sideways rotation when rebounding for side and rear impact crashes. I'm so afraid the CCO will just bounce around and hit the side of the car or back of seat (child's face/head impacting it) in a serious accident. Our Sienna has rear side airbags so I'm not so concerned about the side of the vehicle, per se, but the seat cocooning my childs head into the back of the auto seat.

Am I being narotic about the CCO? I know this seat has passed the safety tests and that the movement I see in the see in the seat is supposed to be there so that the seat can function as expected...

I LOVE the CCO - it's so nice and my DD's head doesn't slump to the side like it does in the MA. The harness adjuster is great and I really like the puzzle buckle too. But, my perceived unsteadiness of the seat has me on edge. I've seriously thought about selling it and just getting two roundabouts or diplomats or combo. I'm only in the market for compact convertibles at this time (I have the MA & RN for when they outgrow the compacts ERF.. I gain 2 more good years of visibility in my vehicles with the compacts ERF at this time). I've even considered the Priori - because I got a great and overall steady install without a RF Tether (not allowed).

Hmm, that's a good question, would a seat with a base caccoon as much as a seat without a base (think infant bucket with seat belt install)? Does it matter?

I guess, long story short, is the "caccooning" of a no base seat really going to be okay in a serious accident with a heavier child (20 to 30lbs)?

[snowbird25ca]

I guess, long story short, is the "caccooning" of a no base seat really going to be okay in a serious accident with a heavier child (20 to 30lbs)?

Yes. I would hazard a guess that if you added up all the seats in use rf'ing the vast majority would not rf tether. I would also hazard a guess that despite the fact that most of the population turns ff'ing at 1yr old, there are at least half of those kids who are between 25 and 30lbs before their first birthday.

We know that rf'ing seats are very safe. The added benefit of a rf'ing tether is mostly speculative...

Remember that the bulk of the force is being distributed during the initial downward rotation, and while rebound can be forceful, the force dissipates further during the course of rebound. A convertible seat rebounding is really no different than an infant seat rebounding...

So my long story short? I have zero problems with using a seat that doesn't tether rf'ing. Ds was in a Radian when we were visiting a friend in May and it wasn't tethered rf'ing. And I didn't give it a 2nd thought. He hasn't been in a seat with rf tethering capabilities for almost 1.5yrs now, and I have no concerns about it. :thumbsup:

[joolsplus3]

This is from the carseat.org technical encyclopedia (the 'top tether, rear facing' link never opens for me, but you can click the 'here' link in my siggy).

Whenever I feel nervous about my untethered RF seats, I read this, and it makes me feel better :)

"The first U.S. infant restraint, which is the model for subsequent ones, did not use a tether in either direction nor a shoulder belt, but it worked very well. During development, the engineers observed that it turned over toward the vehicle seatback after a crash test and, largely in order to justify what happened anyway, they called this the "cocoon effect." There was also some justifiable concern that the small infant's neck might be injured on rebound or rear-impact unless the restraint were allowed to freely rotate in this direction. Justified or not, this concept has remained and seems to make intuitive sense. The counter-argument that the infant's head will "slam" into the seatback and be injured on rebound has not been validated in over 30 years of crash experience."

[autumnlily]

Thank you both!

It makes sense that the brut force that happens first is counteracted by the fact that the kids are RF and that is first and foremost the most important. I have to remember that - a kid rearfacing is still safer and will sustain less injury regardless of "coccooning" than a tightly installed FF seat.

I need to stop watching the test video's - the images just stick with me.

[LISmama810]

NAK

Am I being narotic about the CCO? I know this seat has passed the safety tests and that the movement I see in the see in the seat is supposed to be there so that the seat can function as expected...

Supposedly the Coccoro exceeds the standard test. Combi had an infant seat recalled a while back because the seat was flying off the base in crash tests, even though it had passed the standard sled tests that car seats must pass. Combi hired an engineer to design a sled that more realistically resembles actual vehicle seats so they could test their products more thoroughly.


I guess, long story short, is the "caccooning" of a no base seat really going to be okay in a serious accident with a heavier child (20 to 30lbs)?

I'm more concerned with downward rotation than rebounding (though I don't lose sleep over either one.)

If you're worried about heavier kids RF, remember that with the European belt routing, the CCO provides protection against that initial downward rotation. The heavier the kid, the greater the rotation is likely to be. (Of course, tethering the Britax with the Australian---over-the-seat--method would accomplish that, too.)

[autumnlily]

NAK



Supposedly the Coccoro exceeds the standard test. Combi had an infant seat recalled a while back because the seat was flying off the base in crash tests, even though it had passed the standard sled tests that car seats must pass. Combi hired an engineer to design a sled that more realistically resembles actual vehicle seats so they could test their products more thoroughly.




I'm more concerned with downward rotation than rebounding (though I don't lose sleep over either one.)

If you're worried about heavier kids RF, remember that with the European belt routing, the CCO provides protection against that initial downward rotation. The heavier the kid, the greater the rotation is likely to be. (Of course, tethering the Britax with the Australian---over-the-seat--method would accomplish that, too.)


Thank you! You have a CCO for your kid too don't you? I've seen CPSTs post about having them - so I know I should calm down :o

[LISmama810]

Thank you! You have a CCO for your kid too don't you?

I do. In fact, I ordered a second one for her last night for our other car. We currently have a Boulevard in there, but I like the Coccoro so much more (mainly in terms of tightening the harness). So we'll have a CCO in there until she outgrows it, then we'll go back to the BV.

[Defrost]

Another thing to remember about installing carseats is that no matter how tight and secure it feels to you, it's going to move alarmingly in a crash. And that's how it's supposed to work. I know it's really easy for me to get all worked up about getting my kids' seats super-tight and feel all proud of my installs that rock the whole car, but I have to remind myself that there is absolutely no evidence that it makes any difference in an actual crash. In an actual crash, the difference between an install with a quarter inch of movement at the belt path and and an install that's rock-the-car solid is probably so minimal as to be unmeasurable. :thumbsup: