Britax Multi Tech vs. Brio Zento

[Smeggles]

Hi, I am hoping someone can help me.

I am trying to decide between a Brio Zento and a Britax Multi Tech.

At this stage I am leaning towards the Multi Tech due to its higher seat shell and the fact I want to use it rear & forward facing and as a booster, but I don't know anyone with one that I can test and my car is not in the compatiability list - I have a Hyundai Sante Fe (2001).

I also need some reassurance on the fact that in forward facing mode, neither of these seats are tethered as I am used to using Safe n Sound (Britax) car seats which are tethered from the top to anchor points in both rear and forward facing modes - I am in New Zealand.

Any assistance that can be provided would be appreciated.

Kind regards,
Smeggles

[finn]

Hey where in NZ are you? If you're anywhere near Wellington you are welcome to come and try out my multi-tech.

I currently have a Multi-tech and love love love it, ds (2.5years, 98cm tall, 11.5kg (aargh!)) is on the 3rd height setting, of 6, so he will easily make it to 4 in this seat rear facing. It installs easily forward facing using the long belt path, no top tether.

ds hated the Brio, it has a lip of foam that rubbed on his back, he had a constant bruise and was the reason we got the Multi-tech.

I find the multi-tech easier to install and it is so much taller. The multi-tech takes up a bit more room in the car, both front to back and side to side, but its not huge. It is easier to install as it has lock off so you dont need to use a locking clip like you do on the brio. It also has a foot prop which the brio doesnt have and this makes it more stable. I love the head wings on the multi-tech.

I couldn't imagine it not fitting in your car, I have mine in a 98' 318i bmw (rear facing) which isn't huge. I couldn't install it ff in a honda odyssey as the belts were too short, but have had it ff in a honda civic & integra, and a Mitsubishi galant and it was fine.

[Smeggles]

Yay!

Someone that has used both - I have been pulling my hair out trying to decide which one to get as I need two and the cost difference is obviously significant.

Unfortunately I am in Auckland but Hakan at carseat.se is checking to see if any of the MT's he has sent to NZ were sent to Auckland and whether the owners would mind me making contact. I would just like to see and install it in my car to be 100% sure it is going to fit and fit well.

My daughter is 3.10 years, 15kg and 98cm and I have done some extrapolating and have worked out that by age 8, she will be approximately 25kg, which is the maximum weight threshold of the Zento and MT and she will be roughly 126cm tall.

As such, based on these figures and keeping in mind that children should be in booster seats until they are around 148cm – 1.5m, I will need to purchase a booster seat at this time - which is a pain but the good news is that by then the booster options should be much better than they are today.

Using my mapping, I have also worked out that she will not be 148 – 1.5m tall until she is approximately 12 years old, at which time she will be about 43kg, so I will need to get a booster that supports up to at least 45kg.

Sadly, using the same methodology I have mapped my son’s growth and if he continues along the same path in terms of weight and height then he will still be rear facing at 10 and won’t be out of a booster until 13!!

The only thing that bothers me about the MT (and Zento) is that it isn't tethered forward facing. I know seat belts rarely fail, but I just hate knowing that there is only one thing holding the seat in place.

Hey, do you know

1. Is there a guide as to when a MT is too small, i.e. some car seats become too small when the tips of the child’s ears are at the top of the seat etc.
2. You know how seats expire 10 years after manufacture in NZ, what is the rule in Sweden?

Anyway, thank you sooo much for your reply to my post. Hakan in Sweden and Bonnie in NZ have been huge helps but you are the first person I have spoken to who has actually used both seats - YAY!

Cheers
Smeggles aka Megan

[InternationalMama]

I don't own either seat so take that into consideration when reading my comments, but I was wondering:

If you really want to use the seat FF as well as RF and you are thinking about importing from Sweden wouldn't it make sense to get the Two-Way Elite instead of the Multitech because the TWE FF's to 55lbs whereas the MT only FFs to 40lbs?

Also, I was thinking of a pic someone in this (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=86353) thread posted where she said that she didn't much like the MT install FF because of the housing of the foot prop. I thought you might like to check out the pic.

Along those lines, have you done a search of the forum for other threads about these seats? I know I read something about the Zento that made me stop considering it, but I can't remember what it was now... Maybe it was that it has the shortest shell of any of the Swedish seats. Anyway, if you do a search you might find some threads helpful to making your decision.

HTH.

[Smeggles]

Hi InternationalMama

I have searched under all three seat names on the site (and other sites) and have read just about read every thread with regards to the two way, multi tech and zento (including the one you mention) and whilst I didn't really pay much attention to Lena's comments on the foot prop at the time (as my plan was to keep my children rear facing until they outgrow the seat), now that I have mapped out their growth, that could mean that they are rear facing until 8 & 10..... which may be a challenge to enforce! :)

However, if I was to turn them forward facing I would definitely want them to be harnessed which would make me lean towards the two way, but my concern is that the two way seat shell isn't as tall as the multi tech and i have heard that the side impact protection on the multi tech is better.

NB: The multi tech supports forward facing up 40lb in a harness and to 55lb with the seat belt i.e. as a booster.

Finn, have you fitted the MT forward facing? If yes, did you find the foot prop made the seat less stable etc?

Being from down under I also struggle with the fact that in forward facing mode the seats are not top tethered like the ones in NZ - which is another reason why I want to keep them rear facing until they outgrow the seats as I suspect by then Safe n Sound (Britax Australia & New Zealand) will be offering top tethered boosters with higher weight and seat shell ranges - especially as a law has just been proposed to have children in boosters until they are 148cm or 10 years.

My challenge is that I want the best seat but the only Swedish seat available in NZ is the zento and the cost of importing a multi tech (and to a lessor extent) a two way is substantially more, particularly as I will be purchasing two.

So I am juggling wanting to get a seat that will last the difference, is the best in terms of protection and won't break the bank (and it is all turning to mush in my head!!)

Thanks again for the info and please feel free to comment again, I have a zento on trial for the next week and a half and need to make a decision soon to ensure I have a seat in time for when I have to give it back. :D

Cheers
Megan

[InternationalMama]

Hi Again,

I'll have to read over your posts more carefully, but how old are your kids again? I think you only mentioned the age of one of them. If you have a Zento on trial now how are they fitting in it? Room to grow?

Here's an idea depending on your answers to the above. You could import one Multi-Tech from Sweden and buy one Brio Zento from inside NZ, assuming the price difference is pretty big here. Then you can put your younger/shorter child in the Brio and your other child in the Multi-Tech and then when your younger one outgrows the Brio RF you can buy a booster with a tether (as you say, assuming they'll release them in the future) for your older one, who I am just hypothesizing would be booster-ready by then, and pass the Multi-Tech down to your younger one to RF longer or FF/booster if that seems more appropriate.

The problem is you can't entirely predict how your kids are going to grow and you also can't predict what seats will be on the market in the future that you might really prefer (like a tethered booster) so to me getting one of each would be a nice way of hedging your bets. But like I said, I don't actual own either so take that into account. :)

:twocents: Good luck deciding!

[Smeggles]

Hey, good idea!

However I am desperately trying to not let cost be the deciding factor i.e. I want to decide which IMO is the best seat and go with that. Which is incredibly hard as my husband lost his job a few weeks back and I am a stay at home mum, so in reality money is a serious consideration.

As it happens my husband has had the last word and providing the MT fits our car well (someone about 45mins away imported one so we are waiting to find out if we can visit and test it) then we are going to go with that.

In the end we followed our gut feel.

The Zento seems fine and it is unlikely our children will outgrow them in terms of height before weight.

But the seat itself is very curved which is good for SIP but given our children's previous growth rates and the the heights of both my husand and myself, they are going to be in them until around 8 (they are 2 & 3 now) so we think it might be a bit of a tight fit in a couple of years.

Plus, there have been some instances of back bruising due to a ridge in the foam under the padding and whilst in these instances the manufacturer is providing an additional bit of padding for under the cover, it adds weight to our concerns of there being a tight fit in a couple of years.

Lastly, unfortunately for Brio, even though the seats were apparently fitted incorrectly during the crash testing in Europe (which resulted in very poor results) this created an element of doubt in our minds which we just can't shake.

NB: The seats have been approved for use in Europe and also have the Swedish T approval, so they must be ok, but my husband felt that if the crash testers got the installation wrong then what hope did we have of getting it right. In saying this, I have heard that the testing agency is in Germany and doesn't like Swedish seats, so perhaps the just couldn't be bothered reading the manual!

Either way, we picked up on a few negative threads on the Zento but none on the Multi Tech so that added to our overall gut feel.

Sooo fingers crossed the person who has already imported a MT into NZ will allow us to test it out and that it fits perfectly!!!

Thanks again for your help.

[InternationalMama]

Sounds like you've made your decision! I hope the MT fits your car well. :)

Just as an aside, it could be that you haven't found a lot of negative threads/press about the Multi-Tech because it's very rare to find one outside Sweden, I think, whereas the Zento is also available in the UK and all over Europe, as you say. Plus I feel like the MT is newer than the Zento so that is always a factor in how much people have complained about it. :)

But from what I've read on here everyone agrees if they could they would go with the MT so I'm sure you'll be happy with them!

[finn]

I have installed it forward facing in a few cars, if I am putting it in someone welses car I am lazy and install it forward facing so that I dont have to move the lower tethers.

I have very buckety seats in my car which helps as the foot prop does stick out a bit, i can get a very tight install with less than an inch movement, it is very secure and very quick. I use a locking clip as my belts dont lock. I figure the ECE standards are some of the best in the world and the seat has been tested without a top tether, so it is safe. They install via the long belt path which feels more secure and encompasses more of the seat than the typical Australian install.

The Multi Tech sits a lot lower than the Brio, my ds can climb into and out of the Multi Tech by himself where as he couldn't in the Brio.

Good luck I dohope you get to play with a Multi Tech they are awesome seats.

ds at 20 months in the Brio
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/rabarts/Car%20Seats/DSC09687.jpg

ds at 2.5 in the Multi Tech (seat at the highest it goes harnessed) it goes taller in booster mode
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/rabarts/Car%20Seats/DSC01743.jpg


ds 2.5 at the correct height in the Multi Tech
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/rabarts/Car%20Seats/DSC01552.jpg

[Adventuredad]

Megan, everything is set up for you to take a look at the MT "live" with one of my customers in NZ and I have forwarded info to you Hope you find answers to some of your questions.

Zento is a fairly good seat but is not common in Sweden. The cracking of the seat in the test a couple of years ago is not the reason. The seat is still sold here, if it was unsafe it would not be sold any longer.

MT is not a huge seller in Sweden but it's very popular internationally. A few weeks ago Volvo released their new super duper safe Rf seat. Turns out it's a Multi Tech with Volvo logo on it. They like it for the long rear facing time and hope to drive more people to the car showrooms with the help of this seat.

I think most feel, correctly or incorrectly is anyones opinion, that other brands are more focused on car seat safety market than Brio Brio make great toys and perhaps this is not an advantage regarding seat selection. Britax , BeSafe, and Maxi Cosi feel like more of a "hard core" group of car seat manufacturers. Don't know if that makes any sense.....:whistle:

MT allow FF to 18 kg. with harness and 25 kg with seat belt as a high back booster. Most parents believe harnessing older kids FF is safer, in reality it's not any safer than using a high back booster. It may feel that way but it's simply not correct.

[lenats31]

Hi,

I have just sent you a private message, but there are still some things to mention.

You mention the seat shell height. I have tried my dd in the Zento a year ago when she was 110 cm tall and had a 14-15" torso. Her ears were level with the top of the seat. She had an entire harness slot left in the MT. She can still use the MT now at 5 years old and 18" torso. and 117 cm tall.

If we had the Zento, she would have outgrown it a year ago and minimum 7 cm shorter.

Lena

[Smeggles]

Thank you soo much everyone for your assistance with this.

All the information supplied was really helpful and after weighing everything up we have decided to go with the MT (providing it fits of course - I am sure it will).

I am sure the Zento is a good seat but we want to keep our children rear facing for as long as possible so the MT is our best option, particularly as the Zento is a very deep seat and is already a snug fit for our daughter.

Thanks for the information regarding forward facing and boosters as well. We have decided that once our children have grown out of the MT's that we will move them in to good quality boosters.

AdverntureDad ;) I have emailed your contact and am just waiting to hear back from her. Once we have tested the seat we will be in contact :D

Thanks again everyone, it has been great being able to discuss all this with people who are positive about ERF as I am the only person in my area that I know that still has her children rear facing - and I live in a financially strong area (not that we fit in to that bracket!) so it just goes to show that it is not a matter of wealth.

Cheers
Megan

[InternationalMama]

Hi Megan,

I know you've probably already made your decision (I hope so!) but I was thinking about our conversation and I wanted to run something by you. (And anybody else who wants to chime in.) I was reading the review of the Radian XT at carseatblog.com and it said this:

"This [weird feature of Radian headwings] means that babies and toddlers will not benefit from the enhanced SIP offered by the head support. However, it’s important to point out that rear-facing carseats inherently provide very good protection during side-impact crashes so the additional benefit of the adjustable head support just isn’t as important for rear-facing babies and toddlers. It’s the older, forward-facing kids that can really benefit from this enhanced SIP."

So I was wondering, if you were planning on using a seat rear-facing basically until it was outgrown in both directions, would the added SIP of the Multi-Tech really be so important? I know the Multi-Tech is a taller shell so there are other factors to consider, but I'm always hearing the SIP as a reason for choosing the MT instead of the TWE or others so I was just curious about this and thought I'd post this quote for you.

[lenats31]

This is what it looks like when the large RF seats are crashed.

The frontal test was carried out at 64 km/h/39 mph.

Graco Duologic ll Isofix 0-40 lbs:The seat is tested with the car seatbelt installation and Isofix installation. The Q1 dummy represents a child weighing 9.6 kg/21 lbs. The Q3 dummy represents a child weighing 14½ kg/32 lbs


http://www.autoliitto.fi/testit_ja_ajoneuvot/lasten_turvaistuimet/graco_duologic_ii_2008/


Britax FixWay which is Isofix only 20-40 lbs.
http://www.autoliitto.fi/testit_ja_ajoneuvot/lasten_turvaistuimet/britax_fixway_2009/

HTS BeSafe Izikid X1: Isofix

http://www.autoliitto.fi/testit_ja_ajoneuvot/lasten_turvaistuimet/hts_izi_kid_x1_isofix_2009/

Lena

[InternationalMama]

So, Lena, is your point that the person who wrote the review at the car-seat.org blog about the Radian XT is just very wrong about the lack of need for extra SIP when rear-facing?

I just want to make sure I'm getting from the videos the message you intended.

[lenats31]

So, Lena, is your point that the person who wrote the review at the car-seat.org blog about the Radian XT is just very wrong about the lack of need for extra SIP when rear-facing?

I just want to make sure I'm getting from the videos the message you intended.

No, not per say. The US seats are different to the European seats incl. the MT and the Two Way Elite. The European seats are installed at a 10 degree angle for larger children, and that may require more SIP - especially when the children sleep in their carseats. Also, I would imagine that a harnessed high-weight seat like the Radian is slightly wider.

I know the Regent is, and the SIP there isn´t as deep as in the MT. Instead, the Regent is wider.

The Graco DuoLogic sideimpact test with the Q1 dummy without the upper headwings on results in a headstrike with the door side panell. The child´s head is slightly above the shell. The headstrike would most likely not have occured if the headwings had been on the seat.

Lena

[sunnydayz]

Those videos were disturbing. How do you think side curtain airbags play into the mix. I imagine they would help, but are they positioned in a place to be of any significance?

[lenats31]

Do you mean that the Graco side impact tests are disturbing or all of them?

I don´t think they are disturbing - onless we are talking about the infant belt-installed seats and the Graco seat without the headwings on. Any carseat would hit the sides in a side impact. Europeans get to see crash tests as they are made public - well many of them are. Crash tests of US seats are not made public. So you don´t get to see how they perform in crashes.

I don´t know how far down the side curtains come in crashes. But the Graco vid. proves the importance of SIP in sideimpact crashes. Curtains can´t do the job on their own.

Anyway the Two Way Elite, which is very much like the Radians and the Regents scored 9 out of 10 point for SIP some years ago in a test run by these guys. i don´t know when, and I don´t know what was said and written about it.

[InternationalMama]

Hi Lena,

I think people probably find the videos disturbing because it's a very graphic representation of what their child might experience in a crash. Upsetting to think about, but effective.

Thanks for the extra thoughts. It was helpful.

Interestingly, I think the Radian is the narrowest seat on the US market. It measures just over 17 inches at its widest point! Hmm.

PS I noticed you're not using your TWE anymore. Did you get a second MT?

[lenats31]

Hi Lena,

I think people probably find the videos disturbing because it's a very graphic representation of what their child might experience in a crash. Upsetting to think about, but effective.

Thanks for the extra thoughts. It was helpful.

Interestingly, I think the Radian is the narrowest seat on the US market. It measures just over 17 inches at its widest point! Hmm.

PS I noticed you're not using your TWE anymore. Did you get a second MT?

Maybe that explains why so many people buy FF seats:

1. They are approved for sale so must be safe.
2. Parents may use their hand and arm muscles to install the seat, pull it side to side and front to back ..... without realizing that those are just human muslce force in use. Whereas i a car crash it wont be human muscle force but G-forces in stead. The carseat may be all over the car in a crash.

Lena

[lenats31]

OH, and the TWE is in my mom´s car.

Lena

[lenats31]

So I was wondering, if you were planning on using a seat rear-facing basically until it was outgrown in both directions, would the added SIP of the Multi-Tech really be so important? I know the Multi-Tech is a taller shell so there are other factors to consider, but I'm always hearing the SIP as a reason for choosing the MT instead of the TWE or others so I was just curious about this and thought I'd post this quote for you.

Apparently there is a new Radian on the market? I just saw the Radian in question here regarding SIP and headwings

The headwings on this Radian are soft, whereas those on the MT and the other RF seats from Sweden have shell-headwings. So the headwings on the Radian are very different to those on the Swedish seats. I don´t know the advantages and disadvantages of soft headwings.

Lena