Infant Car Seat vs. Convertible Car Seat in Europe

[Unregistered]

Hi everyone!

I'm not pregnant yet, but I do have a two year old daughter. I feel like such a bad mother coming here, because my daughter has been forward facing since she was 1. I was uninformed about the pros of rear facing longer, so therefore bought a forward facing car seat from Canada called the Evenflo Generations Combination Car Seat. I am originally from Canada, but I currently live in Germany. I use the top tether and the two side bolts in my car, so my car seat doesn't move AT ALL...I want to get a rear facing toddler car seat, but I can't seem to find one here. I know of one, it's called a Britax First Class. It's rear facing from birth to 13 kg, and then forward facing from 9-18 kg. I just wanted to know, why is there a limit in the rear facing? Why can't I rear face in that car seat upto 18 kg? I also don't know what kind of ratings this car seat has. I found out about ADAC testing after I bought my daughters toddler car seat, and therefore found out that the Maxi Cosi Cabriofix with Isofix base is the safest car seat here, or the Römer/Britax Baby Safe with Isofix.

I also have another question. Would using a convertible car seat be better for a newborn than an infant car seat? A convertible one will last me longer, but there is only one here! And to import it from the States would be such an expense for me. The only reason why I would buy an infant car seat is so that I can click it onto the stroller, but if I need to give that up I can, if it regards my childs safety.

So my basically to make a long confusing story short and simple, my questions are, do any of you know of any convertible car seats that are rear facing here in Europe? And which choice should I go with for next baby, convertible or infant car seat? Also, what are the ratings of the Britax First Class? Does anyone know?

[Loves2sing]

First of all, do not feel like a bad mom because you didn't know what was available or what was best. Many do not, including many of us here, who learned about carseats after our kids had been forward facing too soon. That is why resources like this website exist, to educate parents on making the safest decisions for their precious kids.

The reason that they have weight limits for Rfing, is because that is what the seat was tested with. They don't want you putting a larger weight baby into a seat that hasn't been tested with a larger weight dummy.

As far as buying an infant seat vs a convertible seat for an infant. You can do either. Some people prefer to go straight to a convertible seat so that the seat will last longer. Provided that the baby fits well, this is a great option. However, not all seats will fit a small baby as well as others would. Without having a knowledge of what seats are available to you in Germany, I can't recommend a seat there for you.

If you are considering getting a seat shipped over, I think the best place you could look would be a little closer to home than America. There are amazing seats available in Sweden that have many of us across the pond drooling. One member here lives in Sweden, and I believe that he helps other members get Swedish seats. His name is AdventureDad. You can learn more about getting a Swedish seat here:
http://www.carseat.se/

As far as the Britax First Class goes, I am not sure about their ratings, but I will try to find that for you.

Hope this Helps! Happy car seat shopping!

ETA: I am not sure of how great these reviews are, or how trusted the source is, but I did find a few reviews here:
http://www.reviewcentre.com/reviews34835.html

[sailingdaddy]

I want to get a rear facing toddler car seat, but I can't seem to find one here. I know of one, it's called a Britax First Class. It's rear facing from birth to 13 kg, and then forward facing from 9-18 kg. I just wanted to know, why is there a limit in the rear facing?

I also have another question. Would using a convertible car seat be better for a newborn than an infant car seat?


Germans are generally very bad at keeping their children safe in cars, so that is why you won't find many (Group 1) rear-facing seats there. 13 kg is far, far too soon to turn a child FF, so don't buy that Britax seat.

Instead, as others have mentioned, order a Scandinavian seat instead. Britax, for example, makes great seats for RF up to 25 kg. As they are ECE certified, they are fully approved for use in all of the EU.

As for yor other question, I strongly believe that a dedicated infant carrier is safer than using a combination seat as early as from birth. There are many infant carriers available on the German market for newborn up to 9-12 months approximately. Then, get a Scandinavian seat the will RF your child from around 10 kg to 20-25 kg.

BR

/Marcus

[ketchupqueen]

I don't believe that infant seats are safer than rear-facing convertibles for newborns-- as long as the convertible seat can be installed at a full 45 degree angle for a newborn. This may be an issue with some seats, but not with all.

[skipspin]

I don't believe that infant seats are safer than rear-facing convertibles for newborns-- as long as the convertible seat can be installed at a full 45 degree angle for a newborn. This may be an issue with some seats, but not with all.

It's all about fit. If the infant doesn't fit well in a convertible, then yes, an infant seat is safer. However if both are installed well, used correctly, and the baby fits well, then there is no way to say which is safer- it's a guess. Honestly, I'd tend to guess that a convertible *could* be safer just because not having the car seat attach to the base is one less thing to fail- but that is a personal guess not anything factual.

I have no problems with an infant seat at all and have used them for my kids. My infant fits better in the Combi Corocco than the infant seat I had, and I rarely take it out of the car anyway, so that's what he's in for now.

Sorry, I'm not of any help with European seats- hopefully someone else can help you there.

Oh, I will mention that there are several seats in Canada and America that will keep most kids rear-facing past age 2 and beyond, so if that's more doable that Scandanavia then I would lean that way personally. I know the Trufit is available in Canada and the US, so that might be something to look into.

[ketchupqueen]

I of course did mean if it fit properly. :)

[InternationalMama]

Hi -

There are other people on the forum who are more knowledgeable than me, but there are definitely extended rear-facing seats available in Germany and some of them get reviewed by the ADAC.

Last year the ADAC reviewed the Recaro Polarec (an isofix seat RF to 18kg) and the Wavo GO/1 isofix seat (also to 18kg again). These are both seats you can buy in Germany although the Wavo I think is only available online. They may have reviewed other seats, but they liked the Wavo one best. Here's the link to their tests last year:

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Kindersicherung/Kindersitze/gtab_2007_2008.asp?ComponentID=255773&SourcePageID=147767

This year they also reviewed the HTS BeSafe iZiKid, which I think is also an ERF seat to 18kg and the Britax Fixway, which is an ERF seat that can be used with isofix, but I don't know too much more about it. Here's the link:

http://www.adac.de/Tests/Kindersicherung/Kindersitze/default.asp?TL=2

(Note that they review these seats in a different category than the infant seats you were talking about before. You have to look in the "bis 18kg" category.)

As far as convertibles that RF to 13kg, in addition to the Britax First Class there is also another seat called the Concord Ultimax. Here's a link:

http://www.mytoys.de/catalog/show/KID/de-mt.ba.br01.14.09/1804867

In addition to these seats you also have the option of importing a seat from Sweden, which would be legal to use in Germany. This website has a list of dealers who will ship to the UK, but some of them will also ship to Germany including carseats.se that was mentioned by another poster. The advantage of the Swedish seats is that they RF even longer than 18kg.

http://www.rearfacing.co.uk/buyersguide.php

So you see you have a lot more choices for ERF seats than it first appears! Maybe too many! :)

As an aside, I just wanted to let you know that the Maxi-Cosi Cabrio is the safest infant seat IF you install it with the base, but if you do a seatbelt install (you can do either/or with the Cabrio) I believe that the Maxi-Cosi Citi SPS tested better. But it sounds like you use isofix so it's probably not so important. :)

[Eclipsepearl]

Another issue to think about, before you dish out a lot of money, is the extended harnessing. I simply couldn't find a seat in either Germany or France that harnessed past 40lbs/18 kilos. I use a Radian65 here in France and even installed it in a police car once. So much for being fined lol!

Apparently, they're not made in these parts of Europe. You have to go with a Swedish seat or do what a lot of parents here do and just use their N.American seat. I've never heard of any problems either on line or in RL.

I found that a lot of the car seats had really low slots. This is annoying as it can really limit the seats' use. The seat itself was big but the top slots were so low that most 2 1/2 year olds will outgrow them. Measure the top slots before buying!

You also might want to use the seat on the airplane. Part of the reason I got a U.S. seat is so that I could travel with it. A car seat is the only way to fly safely with a baby. They're allowed on laps for commercial reasons and because air travel is so safe but "lap" babies are not protected.

If you get a good baby carrier, not a Bjorn or other fiddly front pack but something comfortable like a wrap or sling, you wont need to take the car seat out of the car. Sure, I did sometimes, like in a restaurant but you could simply take a portable bouncy seat instead. I could transfer sleeping babies between the carseat, stroller and carrier without waking them.

Good luck and hope the European car seat market wakes up to both extended rfing and harnessing soon. Too many unsafe children!

[Adventuredad]

Sorry to hear about your problems in fining rear facing seat. The Swedish rear facing seats are known world wide for safety and for allowing 55 lbs rear facing. This might be an option for you. Many on this board in different countries use them and interest in Germany has been picking up a lot lately. Most seats allow rear facing to 4+ years.

Please don't feel any guilt about the rear facing forward facing issue, information isn't always easy to find. If you want to learn a little more about rear facing and different possibilities you can take a look at CarSeat.se (http://www.carseat.se)

[Unregistered]

Sorry for the late reply everyone...thank you SO SO much for all that information!!! I will definitely look into that info...and then decide which one i want to get...thanks so much once again!!!