If I go to a seat check, can I ask the CPST's not to touch or uninstall/reinstall our car seats?

[grumpybear]

Basically, I just need for them to check on the recline angle of our (still unoccupied) SafeSeat. I think it looks ok but I just really want to know for sure.

That said, the last time I had another seat checked (Radian80), the tech decided to uninstall the car seat and install it himself. Why he did that, I don't know since we had a rock-solid install. Needless to say the installation came out tilted and the seatbelt was twisted and I had to transport my son back home in it until my husband had to reinstall the seat again.

So when we have our seats checked, is it ok for me to ask them not to touch it unless it is a dire safety issue?

Also, I am afraid that they will insist/strongly encourage me to put the bucket in the center and FF the still RF Radian.

Alas, we have tried all configurations but the best installation we can get is to have the bucket outboard (driver's side) and Radian RF in the center.

What can I tell them if they tell me to just FF the Radian?

My son who uses the Radian is still well within the RF limits (he is hovering in the 29-30lb and the Radian we have is the one that goes until 33lb).

[An Aurora]

Nope. They need to uninstall to check model numbers and check your install. The tech should not install it--they can install to show you how and then have to repeat, but never should they just install it and let you leave. If they tell you to FF a seat, tell them no.

[stayinhomewithmy4]

Back when DS1 was a baby (in 2001) I went to a seat check and begged the tech to not uninstall the base unless there was something wrong with it. He checked the labels (which were on top of the base) and made sure it was a good tight install, but he didn't take it out, much to my relief since it had taken me lots of time & energy to get it in. I think he was supposed to take it out anyway, but I begged him, and I mean BEGGED him to leave it in and he did. It was obviously a brand new seat and he could see the labels to know that it wasn't recalled. He told me that they automatically take every seat out because NONE of them that come into checks are installed correctly. Now that I'm a tech, if I had a parent like myself come into a seat check, I would uninstall it anyway, just to show them that it really isn't that big of a deal to get it back in correctly and that they shouldn't be intimated by it, to show them some tricks to make installation easier, things like that. So, yeah, I'm sure they will take it out.

They shouldn't tell you to FF your Radian. If they do, tell them no. As the parent, it is your decision.

[An Aurora]

Yeah, you need to not be afraid of your seats :) You really do need to be able to replicate the install in case you need to put it in someone else's car and DH is not around.

[Mama Jo]

And the more you uninstall/reinstall your seats, the better you get at it, and it becomes not so intimidating anymore :thumbsup:

[grumpybear]

Oh ok. I understand now. Thank you!

*now off to brace myself for potential FF your 3-y.o. comments*

[grumpybear]

And the more you uninstall/reinstall your seats, the better you get at it, and it becomes not so intimidating anymore :thumbsup:

I think this is so true. When DH first tried installing the Radian in my vehicle, it took him about 4 hours to figure it out.
Now it takes him under 10 minutes.

And yes, I really should start installing the seats myself.
:o

[safeinthecar]

*I* will take out a perfectly installed seat under all circumstances. Many, many times over the years I've found a problem with a seat that was perfectly installed that was not visible while installed. Misrouted harnesses (or tied off), footless Snugrides, odd things under the seat, a seat BOLTED to the vehicle (literally, with a 10" lag-bolt), stress marks, RN rfing foots in place but not locked on...

[mommy-medic]

*I* will take out a perfectly installed seat under all circumstances. Many, many times over the years I've found a problem with a seat that was perfectly installed that was not visible while installed. Misrouted harnesses (or tied off), footless Snugrides, odd things under the seat...

:yeahthat:

Also- if they tell you to "just FF the radian" take the opportunity to educate them on "best practices"- not all techs are aware that the AAP recommends RFing to the weight limits of the seat.

[Pixels]

*I* will take out a perfectly installed seat under all circumstances. Many, many times over the years I've found a problem with a seat that was perfectly installed that was not visible while installed. Misrouted harnesses (or tied off), footless Snugrides, odd things under the seat, a seat BOLTED to the vehicle (literally, with a 10" lag-bolt), stress marks, RN rfing foots in place but not locked on...

:yeahthat: During my class check event, a Mom came in with her perfectly installed seat. It was installed RFing with the seatbelt, and the LATCH belt was through the FFing belt path and the connectors were properly stowed on the seat. Or so I thought. Once I disconnected the seatbelt, I was able to see that the LATCH connectors were not, in fact, stowed on the seat, but were connected to the vehicle.

If a parent came in and didn't want me to take out the seat, I wouldn't turn the parent away, and I wouldn't disregard the parent's request. I would explain the reasons why I would like to take the seat out (as all the PPs said, to inspect the seat for damage, to check the stickers, to completely check how the seat was installed, and to have the parent practice putting it in) and work like crazy to get them to let me take it out. If they still didn't want it taken out, I would document that, and provide what help I could.

As far as turning your 3 year old, personally, I'd probably hug you if you came in with your 3 yo RFing and didn't want to turn him. Whenever there is a question of which direction a child should face, which seating position the seat should be in, or even LATCH vs seatbelt, I educate the parent on the pros/cons of each, and it's up to the parent to make the decision.

[sunnyflower417]

I went to a check with my 18 month old, RFing in a Radian with RF tether. I asked him not to install and he didn't. But then he didn't do what he was supposed to anyway. My children left his check a lot less safer than they came in. In fact, here is the post Andie made about it!
http://car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=52478
However I would try to convince you to remove it and then help you get it as good or better. But if you insisted I would help you as I can! Good luck! I get the FF your 2.5 year old from EVERYBODY! Including my DH :(

[thepeach80]

I had a mom once who really didn't want me to uninstall her seat since it was in well, I told her no. There's no way for me to see the whole seat and check for the straps in the back etc (in a ffing seat) w/out taking it out. I would give you a kiss if you came in w/ a rfing 3yo. I've only seen that once since I've been a tech. Mom came in w/ 3yo wanting to know if he was too big to rf yet. I told her no and sent her on her way, lol.

[lodonal65]

As techs, we have to be given PERMISSION from the parents to touch their seats.
On my seat check forms, it even has a place for the parents to sign stating they have given me permission to check their seats.

If a parent comes to me asking ANY questions about their seats and doesn't want it removed, I will ask why. Then, explain to the parent, like others have said, no one should be intimidated by their seat's installation and both parents should know how to install the seat properly.

If, after all that, the parent still insists I not touch the seat, I will not touch the seat and will document our conversation.

[pippi2077]

I always uninstall b/c there are things you can't see w/o doing so. Checking straps, making sure they are only using latch or seatbelt, etc.

I have seen one of our techs do this lately though. She was checking the dad's car and I checked the mom's. Mom was borrowing outside latch for center position. I really wonder about dad's install.

[NannyMom]

:yeahthat:

Also- if they tell you to "just FF the radian" take the opportunity to educate them on "best practices"- not all techs are aware that the AAP recommends RFing to the weight limits of the seat.

Make sure you take your Radian manual and can point out where it says it can RF to 33/35 pounds. At a seat check yesterday, the new techs nicely informed us that DD would have to be FF if I wanted her in the Radian. The wording on the side does lead you to think it can only be used RF to 20 pounds (and DD is 25). The Side says RF 5-35 pounds but right under that it says something like "use only rear facing to 20 pounds" and that can be interpreted wrong.

If you don't want them to remove the seats, tell them so. They can certainly write that in their documentation. Like a PP said, there could any number of things you can't see w/o removing the seat....but it releases their liability if the parent signs that they didn't want the seat removed.

[tl01]

I think this is so true. When DH first tried installing the Radian in my vehicle, it took him about 4 hours to figure it out.
Now it takes him under 10 minutes.

And yes, I really should start installing the seats myself.
:o

So true! The first time I installed our Radian it took about 45 minutes and I still wasn't satisfied. Now it takes about 3 mintues and it is rock solid:) Practice makes perfect... or at least a lot better;)

[Defrost]

Well, if you don't trust these people's opinions or judgement on anything else, why do you care if they say your infant seat is or isn't at the proper recline?

I mean, I understand wanting to double-check and make sure you've got it at the right recline, but from what you've stated, you got incorrect info and a poor install last time, so who's to say you won't get the same if you go back? Will you really feel better about the recline angle if the tech says "Yep, it's great!" or "Oh no, it needs to be way farther back than that?"

I'm just wondering why you'd bother going in if you're not going to be able to trust their opinion anyway, yk?

[Maedze]

OP, are any of the technicians listed at the top of the page near you? :D

[grumpybear]

Well, if you don't trust these people's opinions or judgement on anything else, why do you care if they say your infant seat is or isn't at the proper recline?

I mean, I understand wanting to double-check and make sure you've got it at the right recline, but from what you've stated, you got incorrect info and a poor install last time, so who's to say you won't get the same if you go back? Will you really feel better about the recline angle if the tech says "Yep, it's great!" or "Oh no, it needs to be way farther back than that?"

I'm just wondering why you'd bother going in if you're not going to be able to trust their opinion anyway, yk?


I think a recline angle is pretty much standard and would trust their judgment on that. And if they do give me info that I was not aware of, of course I'd double-check here first. Basically, it's a matter of that I do not have much choice because they are the experts and I am not. And we live in a super-small, somewhat isolated community that I cannot go to the next town to have it checked by An_Aurora or something. She's about 160miles away. :D
So I guess I just want to have my bases covered in case I miss something.

Maedze, I am completely clueless when it comes to page navigation. LOL
Is there a list of techs on this website?

[Maedze]

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135

Top of this forum!

[Avery'sMama]

I would not check any part of a seat if I could not uninstall it. And neither should any other tech. We need to see all parts of the seat. I had one in TODAY that looked like it was in with lower anchors and felt tight, inactuality, the lower anchor attachments were hooked to a cargo hook type thing in the center of the seat. There was not LATCH in the vehicle. There are many non-visible things that can be wrong, as mentioned in this post. Also, please know that we many of us are working techs or instructors, who follow what we recommend IRL. Please don't assume that your techs won't know how to install a seat, or what the best practice recommendation is regarding RFing.

[ketchupqueen]

You could also just take a picture and have us check it here... :whistle: ;)

[An Aurora]

That would answer the recline angle question, but it's not a good substitute for getting her seat checked.

[ketchupqueen]

Yes, but if she doesn't want the seat out, I don't see the point in wasting a tech's IRL time, KWIM?

[safeinthecar]

If you are confident of the install, and sure you don't need a check or don't trust the techs in your area, then there is no point to getting the seat checked. Angle is not rocket science, and you don't need any tool other than your baby and whatever guide the CS manufacture provides for the seat.

If the angle indicator on the seat is reading correctly, put your baby in the seat. Make sure the baby's bottom is all the way back and the harness is properly tightened. If the baby's head falls forward, you need more recline, If it doesn't, you're fine.

It is a myth that all infant seats must be installed at a 45 degree angle for a newborn. First, not all seats are designed to recline at 45*. Some seats are more reclined, some are less, most actually have a range of degrees that work just fine, and that is the way the manufacture designed and tested the seat. 45 is just a general guideline. Second, many newborns do just fine sitting more upright. More upright gives better crash protection, so if the child can tolerate a more upright position, that is a bonus.

Using an inclinometer to check the angle, I find the SR for example will read in the "blue" area of the angle indicator within the range of about 33-48 degrees (varies somewhat on different trim lines because of cover thickness). My two younger children, born at 34 and 35 weeks respectively, both rode in the SR in the most upright allowable angle from birth and had no problems. On the other end of that spectrum, if a baby is slumping chin-to-chest with the angle at the maximum recline, their airway may be compromised and you need to recline slightly more, regardless of what the angle indicator says.

It is highly unlikely a seat rated for 20+ lbs is going to over-rotate with a -12lb baby because the angle is off by 2-3 degrees, therefore the risk of a compromised airway takes precedent.

[An Aurora]

Also, most techs (and by "most" I mean those who don't spend 12874 hours a day on here ;)) would just look at the angle indicator on the seat and go "Meh, looks good."

[ketchupqueen]

Also, most techs (and by "most" I mean those who don't spend 12874 hours a day on here ;)) would just look at the angle indicator on the seat and go "Meh, looks good."

Wait, where are you getting extra hours for your day??? I want some! Then I can spend more time here!

Oh, and I have been known to measure car seat angles using a protractor and a plumb line. :whistle: (Not at checks, though, my own seats.)

[grumpybear]

I went today. I'm glad I did because I learned that you don't lock the seatbelt when you use the built-in lock-offs or the locking clip.

After reading this thread, it made sense to me why seats have to be taken out so I was prepared for that but, what do you know, our seats were not taken out at all.

So I just basically walked the tech through what we did with the installation. What we used. How many twists for each seatbelt stalk, etc, etc.

Car seat checks in my town really confuse me. LOL