OMG! Techs screwed up install please help me fix it!

[snoopy5386]

So I just got back from my local carseat inspection day. I stopped by to have them look at DD's seat as I was concerned about 2 things with the install. DD is 29 lbs, still RFing in her BLVD, plenty of room heightwise. We have a 1999 accord, it is a seatbelt install in the center seat. I was concerned about the belt bunching up where it enters the belt path, it bunches up and you can't close the lock off (the car does have locking belts) and also I had to twist the buckle stalk to get a tight install and I wanted to make sure that was ok.

They took out the seat and attempted to reinstall it. They (3 cops and 2 techs) had NO IDEA what they were doing. They were happy I was still keeping her RFing, but OMG they have no clue!! They installed the seat fully upright (they reclined it at first, but then changed it to fully upright to get a more upright install), they also couldn't get the belt to stop bunching to close the lock off, so they installed it with a locking clip!! They also ran the belt in front of the buckle instead of behind it so I can barely buckle DD in because the seat belt is pressing down on the buckle strap. They also didn't know which lock off to use, they were arguing about which one and finally looked it up in the manual.

AAAHHH. So techs who do know what they are doing please help me!
1. Do I need to use the lock offs? I have locking seat belts so that means I don't need them right?
2. I can take off the locking clip correct? That shouldn't be on there right?
3. Is it ok if the belt bunches up where it enters the belt path? The way the seat sits in the car there seems to be no way around this happening.
4. I can twist the buckle stalk up to 3 full twists correct? Is it ok if the seat leans a bit towards the buckle side? This is what happened last time I twisted the stalk to get a tight install.
5. The seat needs to be installed fully reclined for RFing correct? Not fully upright?

Any other tips? I have such a hard time getting this seat in tight. 20 mins of huffing an puffing and killing myself. If there is anything I can do to make it easier I'd love to know.

I will post pics of their mistakes later. I am going to put my DD down for a nap and then deal with the seat.

UPDATE:
OK I reinstalled it. It took 40 mins of me killing myself to get it in, I think it is in ok. It wiggles maybe a 1/2 in at the belt path, but that was the best I could do. When I wiggle it from the back end it wiggles a bit more, but I believe that is ok as well right? Here are the pics, sorry they are from a cameraphone, couldn't find the real camera.

The seat installed, does the angle look ok?
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat2.jpg

The bunching of the belt at the belt path, is this ok? Also since I am not using the lock off, I just installed the belt over the closed lock off, is this ok? The way we had it before was with the lock off open and it was always poking me in the side when I sat next to DD.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat3.jpg

The seatbelt inside the seat
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat4.jpg

Another shot of the seatbelt inside the seat
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat5.jpg

The buckle side
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat7.jpg

Also the seat is tilted down a bit towards the buckle side. The shoulder belt pulls the seat up on the opposite side. It is hard to get a good pic of it but it is definitely tilted. Here is the best shot:
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m215/snoopy5386/carseat6.jpg

[snoopy5386]

Forgot to add, this BLVD is from 2006, so the lock offs close at the bottom instead of the top like the newer Britaxes.

[Pixels]

Yikes. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, but glad that you knew to come here for help.

1. I don't know the answer to this one. What does your manual say about it? I could look at the online manual, but your manual may be different.

2. Definitely take off the locking clip. It's not allowed by Britax, and furthermore isn't necessary since you have locking seatbelts.

3. Yes, bunching is ok.

4. Yes, up to 3 full twists. Leaning is fine as well.

5. Yes, in recline mode.

Pull back the cover from the bottom/front portion of the seat while you are installing it. This will let you make sure the seat belt is not twisted in the belt path, and make sure you have it on the correct side of the crotch strap. Then you can put it back down before you tighten the belt.

Here (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135) is a list of techs from this board. If you have one local to you, contact them and see if they can help you.

[wendytthomas]

Geez. Idiots. Undo everything they did. The bunching sometimes happens. Get it as flat as you can and that's all you can do. Obviously if it's interfering with tightening then it needs work, but if it's the way the belt lays then that's just the way it lays.

You don't need the lockoffs, the belt locks. Locking clips are not allowed with most Britax seats because they have lockoffs. The belt goes behind the crotch strap. The seat MUST be in the recline mode rear facing.

Then your next step is to report them. Is your middle belt a lap belt only, or shoulder and lap? You don't use a locking clip on a lap belt only. You can use any or all lockoffs according to Britax. They installed it improperly, and most importantly your child left LESS safe than when she arrived. The number one goal of techs is to have every child leave safer than when they arrived. And because of these techs your child didn't. Report them report them report them.

Five people for a Boulevard? Oh I love those. "It took two 300 pound firemen to get this tight." "Yeah? Watch me and my size six butt get it in tighter. It's not about size, it's about technique."

Wendy

[snoopy5386]

Wendy,
The middle is a lap shoulder combo. To whom would I report them?

[snoopy5386]

Regarding the lock offs, the manual says to use the lock off furthest from the belt. Are you saying I can use either one? or both? or none? When we 1st had it installed 3 years ago the belt layed nice and flat and the lock off locked. Over time the belt started to bunch up and the lock off popped open and that is how it is now. Even taking it out and reinstalling it I can't get the belt to lie flat.

[Stresch]

It's not about size, it's about technique.


I would like a CPST bummer sticker that say that. That is all. Carry on.

[codex57]

Stories like this, which are all too common, are why I don't bother going to techs.

Just cut out the middle man and post pics or ask questions on your install on here.

[azgirl71]

Regarding the lock offs, the manual says to use the lock off furthest from the belt. Are you saying I can use either one? or both? or none? When we 1st had it installed 3 years ago the belt layed nice and flat and the lock off locked. Over time the belt started to bunch up and the lock off popped open and that is how it is now. Even taking it out and reinstalling it I can't get the belt to lie flat.

Britax allows you to use one, both, or none. If your seatbelts lock then there is no reason you have to use them.

I too recommend reporting them. You can go to the Safe Kids site and look through there. I am sure there is info there.

[snoopy5386]

This was a Safe Kids event, put on by the local chapter. So who do I report them to?

[Pixels]

It's not about size, it's about technique.I would like a CPST bumper sticker that say that. That is all. Carry on.
Me too!

Stories like this, which are all too common, are why I don't bother going to techs.

Just cut out the middle man and post pics or ask questions on your install on here.
Posting pics and asking questions on here is great, but some things can't be detected over the web. I would definitely prefer to go to one of the c-s.o techs over a random one, though.

This was a Safe Kids event, put on by the local chapter. So who do I report them to?

The local chapter would be a good start. It's the equivalent of reporting something to the principal at school.

[azgirl71]

This was a Safe Kids event, put on by the local chapter. So who do I report them to?

I do not know that anything would happen by reporting it to the local chapter.

I would report it to

Safe Kids Worldwide
1301 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Suite 1000
Washinton, DC 20004-1707

Phone: 202-662-0600
Fax 202-393-2072

[azgirl71]

The local chapter would be a good start. It's the equivalent of reporting something to the principal at school.

We posted at the same time. The local chapter can be a good start IF they truly will do something.

If you report to the local chapter, I still recommend reporting to SK too.

[snoopy5386]

The person who installed the seat was the person in charge of the local chapter, so I don't think telling her she doesn't know what she is doing is going to help!

[wendytthomas]

Oh goodness. I'm just shaking my head over here. If you haven't uninstalled it and reinstalled it yet take pictures of what they did (the locking clip, the recline angle, the belt across in front of the crotch strap), and email Safe Kids USA. And tell them it took five people from the local chapter a bunch of time to screw it up that badly.

I shudder to think, what did they do with the rear facing tether?

Wendy

[azgirl71]

If she is in charge I would definitely call SK ASAP. I do not know her, but if they are that disorganized and cannot read the manuals they need to have SK step in and check on them.

I cannot even imagine. BTW... Did they have you install yourself after them or did they just do it themselves? It is a No No for them to just install. Techs are not a install service. They are educators and should be educating caregivers how to install themselves.

[snoopy5386]

Oh goodness. I'm just shaking my head over here. If you haven't uninstalled it and reinstalled it yet take pictures of what they did (the locking clip, the recline angle, the belt across in front of the crotch strap), and email Safe Kids USA. And tell them it took five people from the local chapter a bunch of time to screw it up that badly.

I shudder to think, what did they do with the rear facing tether?

Wendy

At first they weren't going to use it (I had it installed when I got there). Then the head tech came over (she was doing an install in another car) and told them to use it. I just went along with them horrified on the inside just wanting to get out of there so I could fix it myself.

[snoopy5386]

If she is in charge I would definitely call SK ASAP. I do not know her, but if they are that disorganized and cannot read the manuals they need to have SK step in and check on them.

I cannot even imagine. BTW... Did they have you install yourself after them or did they just do it themselves? It is a No No for them to just install. Techs are not a install service. They are educators and should be educating caregivers how to install themselves.

They just did it, they showed me nothing. I had DD with me so I was trying to keep her from running into the street. I will be reporting them.

[azgirl71]

They just did it, they showed me nothing. I had DD with me so I was trying to keep her from running into the street. I will be reporting them.

I am sorry they did not educate you. They definitely need to rethink their check process right down to the kids. We always have a couple people to help watch kids at the checks we do so they are not running through the parking lot.

[Pixels]

It looks overreclined to me. Move the base of the carseat away from the bight (where the vehicle's seat back and bottom meet) by a couple of inches.

The bunching is fine (and minimal, really compared to others I have seen). Belt over closed lockoff is fine.

It looks like it could use a twist or two of the female buckle stalk. It will move the buckle down, away from the beltpath, and make it easier to tighten. Up to three full twists is allowed.

That tilt is not uncommon with locking at the retractor. You can minimize it by pulling the shoulder belt tight while being careful not to pull up on that one side. If you already have the belt locked, and it's almost tight enough but not quite, I have a trick to tighten without tilting. Place your hand, palm down, on the shoulder belt where it comes out of the belt path, and press straight down on it with your weight. It will tighten the lap portion of the belt without tilting the seat. Then feed the excess belt into the retractor.

About the tightness: The seat needs to move no more than one inch front to back, or side to side, AT the belt path. The top of the seat will move more, and that's fine. It only matters at the belt path.

[Misty-Bug]

wow what an ordeal! Where do you live? You can maybe look for a tech through the board here?

I haven't even touched Britax seats yet. I have a question to go along with the locking clips question.....if her seat is leaning can she use the locking clips on the marathon rather then locking the belt?

sounds to me like the locked shoulder portion is causing the lean? I wonder how those people even got certified!

[Maedze]

Yes. OP, to fix the 'leaning' problem, disengage the locking mechanism in the belt retractor and use the lock offs in the seat :thumbsup:

[azgirl71]

wow what an ordeal! Where do you live? You can maybe look for a tech through the board here?

I haven't even touched Britax seats yet. I have a question to go along with the locking clips question.....if her seat is leaning can she use the locking clips on the marathon rather then locking the belt?

sounds to me like the locked shoulder portion is causing the lean? I wonder how those people even got certified!

Misty, she can use the built in lockoffs. However, part of her problem too was her lockoffs do not stay locked.

to the OP. Contact Britax and ask for the new locking clips. Tell them yours will not stay locked. They have been good in the past about sending new one free of charge.

[NannyMom]

Regarding the lock offs, the manual says to use the lock off furthest from the belt. Are you saying I can use either one? or both? or none? When we 1st had it installed 3 years ago the belt layed nice and flat and the lock off locked. Over time the belt started to bunch up and the lock off popped open and that is how it is now. Even taking it out and reinstalling it I can't get the belt to lie flat.

Call Britax, they often replace the "old" style lock offs with new ones for free. Hopefully that will help with the popping open problem. Britax told me you must use the lockoff opposite the buckle/latchplate. That's what the manual says as well, so I like to stick with that.

[UlrikeDG]

You can check the list of Car-Seat.org techs (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135). One of them might be able to help you in person. I can usually smooth out a wrinkly belt in the Britax lock-offs with a little finagling.

[snoopy5386]

It looks overreclined to me. Move the base of the carseat away from the bight (where the vehicle's seat back and bottom meet) by a couple of inches.

The bunching is fine (and minimal, really compared to others I have seen). Belt over closed lockoff is fine.

It looks like it could use a twist or two of the female buckle stalk. It will move the buckle down, away from the beltpath, and make it easier to tighten. Up to three full twists is allowed.

That tilt is not uncommon with locking at the retractor. You can minimize it by pulling the shoulder belt tight while being careful not to pull up on that one side. If you already have the belt locked, and it's almost tight enough but not quite, I have a trick to tighten without tilting. Place your hand, palm down, on the shoulder belt where it comes out of the belt path, and press straight down on it with your weight. It will tighten the lap portion of the belt without tilting the seat. Then feed the excess belt into the retractor.

About the tightness: The seat needs to move no more than one inch front to back, or side to side, AT the belt path. The top of the seat will move more, and that's fine. It only matters at the belt path.

OP Here, how do I do that? I am having a hard time envisioning this. If the seat is a few inches away from the bight, how will I be able to get the seat in there tight enough? Won't the carseat be too far away from the back of the car's seat.

[snoopy5386]

Yes. OP, to fix the 'leaning' problem, disengage the locking mechanism in the belt retractor and use the lock offs in the seat :thumbsup:

I can't do this because the belt bunches to the point that I can't lock the retractor. I'll give it a try again tomorrow though.

[snoopy5386]

Call Britax, they often replace the "old" style lock offs with new ones for free. Hopefully that will help with the popping open problem. Britax told me you must use the lockoff opposite the buckle/latchplate. That's what the manual says as well, so I like to stick with that.

I will do this, thanks for the advice.

[snoopy5386]

You can check the list of Car-Seat.org techs (http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59135). One of them might be able to help you in person. I can usually smooth out a wrinkly belt in the Britax lock-offs with a little finagling.

There are a couple within an hour's drive so I will do this too if I can't get it in well myself.

[NannyMom]

OP Here, how do I do that? I am having a hard time envisioning this. If the seat is a few inches away from the bight, how will I be able to get the seat in there tight enough? Won't the carseat be too far away from the back of the car's seat.

If you slide the seat base away from the seat bite, it will make it lean more upright and the front of the Marathon (where the knees go) will rest againt the vehicle seatback. That's one of the nice things about the design of this seat :)

[papooses]

Report carseat defects to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) @ File a Child Seat Complaint or Report a Defect Online (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/) or call 1-888-327-4236....

Report misinformation given during seatchecks by contacting your state coordinator @ http://www.cpsboard.org/state.htm

:thumbsup:

[Pixels]

OP Here, how do I do that? I am having a hard time envisioning this. If the seat is a few inches away from the bight, how will I be able to get the seat in there tight enough? Won't the carseat be too far away from the back of the car's seat.

If you slide the seat base away from the seat bite, it will make it lean more upright and the front of the Marathon (where the knees go) will rest againt the vehicle seatback. That's one of the nice things about the design of this seat :)
:yeahthat:

When you move it away, at first it might look like it's not touching. But when you tighten the belt, it will snug up. Also, you can affect the install angle by where you are pushing on the seat while you are tightening. If you press down where baby's hips go, or even where his lower back goes, the seat will recline more. If you press where his knees go, it will install more upright.

[cookie123]

In the first picture, it looks like the base is not flat on the seat. Is that an illusion?

[mommycat]

I think that possibly it is not flat on the seat on that side, but does contact on the buckle side, due to the lean? I think that pulling it out from the seat bite as suggested might help install more tightly/less tippy as there will be less resistance to tightening downwards from the edge of the seat digging into the vehicle seat back. :twocents:

ETA: Another thing, doing the pull-out trick may also allow for a more upright install, which in turn may make the seatbelt bunch less where it passes over the edge of the beltpath so you can close the lockoffs (having it too reclined makes the belt land on the curved section, bunching it up. Having the belt pass more in line with the lockoff should hopefully make it lie flatter). Twisting the belt stalk should also allow for a tighter install as it looks like the buckle may be getting a bit "hung up" on the curve of the seat.

ETA adding pic - red on curve, belt moves here when more reclined; green is where the belt will move to when less reclined and further from seat bite. As you tighten DOWN far enough, the seat will not move even if you are barely touching the vehicle seat back, though as you tighten it will move towards that as well and end up "normal" anyway, as mentioned.

[Karen]

Forgive me if this is a repeat, I haven't read all of the posts in entirety.

Take off the locking clip, put it back in recline mode, and move it back behind the crotch strap. Then report them to Safe Kids.

Here are my best tips for this seat looking at your install.

1. It looks over reclined to me. Someone mentioned to you how to pull it out from the bight a little. Also, if you tighten it with your knee in the edge of the seat (instead of from standing behind it) it will force it to be more upright. However, it HAS to be in recline mode to be installed RFing.

2. The very best way that I personally have found to tighten Britax seats is this:
Pull the cover up (I see that you did this.)
Put your knee in the seat without blocking the belt.
Pull out the retractor, but DON'T set the ALR. Just pull it out to get some slack.
Open BOTH lock offs. Britax allows one, both, or neither with an ALR.
Get that extra slack over to the latch plate, and use that extra to give you a grip to pull with. Get the fixed length of the lap portion there as opposed to pulling it on the shoulder portion side of the seat. This will leave you lots of extra in your hand, but a tight seat.
Then transfer that extra webbing over just enough that you can close that lock off right by the latch plate. This will take some force, both with pushing with your knee and fighting with the lock off not to pop open. If the latch plate is the the way of the lock off, then you can twist the belt stock up to three times to get an appropriate location.
Then move the loose belt over and run it through the other open lock off.
Then setting the ALR is not necessary, but you can do it loosely if you'd like.

I find the bunching that you describe often, but from looking at your pictures I think that if you get your seat more upright that it won't do it as badly.

As for the tipping, if you are able to follow what I've written (which may make no sense to you at all-sorry!) I think you will be able to use your lock offs and prevent it.

Let me know if you cannot follow.