Snugride in '09 Scion XB

[Unregistered]

Hello,
Does anyone have any experience with installing a Graco Snugride in a Scion XB? I tried installing it this weekend using the two middle latch anchors. (Note: the car doesn't have middle anchors per se; rather I "borrowed" the interior anchors from the two sets of side anchors. So they are further apart than they would be if the seat was on the side.) The belt is tight, the angle supposedly correct, but the front of the seat moves a lot. (Several inches.) Being a newbie, I asked a friend to take a look and she agreed that it's not normal for it to move so much.

I do have an appointment to have it checked by a car safety technician but it's not until the end of April.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Thanks!
Jessie

[Jeanum]

Welcome to car-seat.org from another xB owner. We have an '08 xB, technically DH's car but I swipe, um, borrow it whenever possible. I haven't installed a Snugride in it before, just convertible seats and forward facing only carseats. The xB is pretty carseat installation friendly with the fairly flat back seat and it's relatively roomy back there to boot. :)

I'm mostly posting to let you know that Scions have dedicated sets of lower LATCH anchors for the outboard rear seating positions only, and don't allow center lower LATCH anchor installations by "borrowing" the outboard lower anchors as you've described. Borrowing the outboard lower anchors either wasn't tested and approved for a safe center installation in Scion models, or it was tested and found to be detrimental to the child restraint's crash performance in some way (parent brand Toyota also forbids borrowing outboard lower LATCH anchors to do a center lower LATCH anchor installation, FWIW). Borrowing also must be allowed by the child restraint manufacturer, as well as the vehicle manufacturer, and Graco does not allow borrowing outboard lower LATCH anchors for a center lower LATCH installation, either. (Graco did previously allow it if the vehicle manufacturer permitted it, but Graco recently changed to not allowing it at all). :o

Your options for a proper install would be to reinstall in the center using the seatbelt, or install outboard using either the lower LATCH anchors, or the seatbelt. Your goal is to achieve a proper installation with less than 1 inch of movement at the child restraint's belt path using an allowable installation method. IMHO it should be possible to reinstall successfully in the center using the seatbelt, although you're likely to find installing it outboard with LATCH to be a bit easier.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the xB doesn't allow touching the front seatbacks with a rear facing child restraint because it can interfere with the sensors for the advanced frontal airbags. There's a blurb in the airbag section of our xB's owner's manual warning against touching the front seatbacks, and the warning is likely in the airbag section in your '09 xB's manual, too. IMHO it should be mentioned in the child restraint section of the owner's manuals, too, a peeve of mine, because it's easily overlooked. :o

[Mommy0608]

Jean already gave you lots of great info, including the fact that borrowing lower anchors for the center position is not allowed. LATCH was not intended to be safer than the seatbelt; it is only supposed to be easier (and that's not always the case). I would recommend trying the seatbelt in the center first, and if you can not get a good installation then use either LATCH outboard or the seatbelt outboard. Rear-facing is so safe that if you can not get a solid installation in the center, I wouldn't stress about having the seat outboard. :thumbsup:

I wanted to add that when checking for a tight installation, you only check for movement at the belt path (where the LATCH strap or seatbelt goes through the base/car seat). You want to be sure that the seat does not move more than 1" in any direction at the belt path. Jean had already mentioned checking at the belt path, but I wanted to make sure you are aware that movement at the opposite end of the seat is normal and expected, even when the seat is rock-the-whole-vehicle-solid at the belt path.

[Unregistered]

Wow, thanks Jean and Jenny. That is really helpful. I will try re-installing using the seatbelt and/or side latch to see if that helps. I read through my Scion owner's manual last night and no where does it say not to borrow the outboard anchors. No wonder some high percentage of car seats are installed incorrectly! Also, thanks Jean for the tid-bit about the seat touching the back of the front seat. I would've never caught that. Cheers, Jessie