Cocorro Manual: Weird RF Install & Other Stuff [Archive] - Car Seat.Org - Carseat, Vehicle & Child Passenger Safety Forums

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LISmama810

03-09-2009, 10:59 PM

I was reading the Cocorro manual today, and the RF lap-shoulder install is really weird. You have to peel back the cover to get the the beltpath, and then you only put the lap portion of the belt through. You then wrap the shoulder belt around the back, sort of like with some European seats. That's bound to confuse people.

The good news is that the rumor of having a pad installed under it for FF seems to not be true. I wonder if there was confusion with the infant insert.

Also, I'll be really surprised if the 16" harness slots pan out to be true. I know someone took a measurement of that, but the seat's height limit is listed at 40". Obviously overall height means little, but I can't imagine them giving it such a low rating if the harness is truly that high.

I tried uploading the manual to attach, but the file was too big. If you have tech access at carseat.org, it's in the instructions section.

Amaris

03-09-2009, 11:01 PM

I've definitely misses something.....what's a cocorro?

crunchierthanthou

03-09-2009, 11:05 PM

I've definitely misses something.....what's a cocorro?

you can see the coccoro here (http://carseatblog.com/?p=189) (~4th paragraph).

and here's a fact sheet (http://www.lifesaversconference.org/handouts2008/CombiCoccori.pdf)

ketchupqueen

03-09-2009, 11:05 PM

New seat coming out from... Combi?

LISmama810

03-09-2009, 11:07 PM

Sorry, yeah, new seat from Combi.

Their press release said it would be out by the end of Feb, but we all know how that goes.

I have to say that the seat intrigues me, although I'm so disgusted by the Zeus, I'm not holding my breath. It seems like it will fill a certain niche (though I'm not quite sure what that is yet).

If nothing else, they're adorable.

crunchierthanthou

03-09-2009, 11:08 PM

Jennie, does it tether rf? That fact sheet seems to indicate it can.

LISmama810

03-09-2009, 11:12 PM

Nope, the manual specifically stated that you can't tether it RF. (I'll double-check on that, but I'm nearly positive it said the tether is for FF use only.)

I didn't see the fact sheet, but I saw a slide from a PowerPoint from Lifesavers last year (I think). It said something about the "Y Tether making for a more secure RF installation," so I wonder if they were somehow alluding to the weird seatbelt routing instead?

Oh, the manual also recommends using a thin seat protector, towel, etc. under the seat.

crunchierthanthou

03-09-2009, 11:17 PM

I didn't see the fact sheet, but I saw a slide from a PowerPoint from Lifesavers last year (I think). It said something about the "Y Tether making for a more secure RF installation," so I wonder if they were somehow alluding to the weird seatbelt routing instead?

yeah, that link is a Lifesavers handout. Maybe something has changed since last year?

atsuydam

03-10-2009, 12:22 AM

ketchupqueen

03-10-2009, 12:28 AM

Oh, man, the names on those make me hungry.

But $200? For a seat that RF and FF for a shorter time than a Scenera? No, thanks...

An Aurora

03-10-2009, 04:05 AM

The Tyro II routed the belt behind it as well for baseless installs...it was actually a very secure install and just took a little getting used to.

Amaris

03-10-2009, 08:05 AM

I like the way it looks, but it does look very small. If it truly does last for a shorter time than the scenera K would have nearly outgrown it already.

joolsplus3

03-10-2009, 08:39 AM

I hope it installs well... there are some people with small cars who don't want to buy cheap walmart seats, and it's cheaper than a Roundabout at some stores :cool:. Wrapping the shoulderbelt could be a tough pill to swallow here, yeah?

40 inches is a pretty standard standing height for any 40lb convertible seat, they are probably just following convention (and I hope that Heather's pictures are right and it ends up with that 15 inch top slot...better chance to make it to 40 if it is...fingers crossed!)

Anyway, cool...lots of places say it's in stock...I was hunting around for infant seat alternatives when that Tribune article came out, but no one seems to care too much afterall :whistle:

LISmama810

03-10-2009, 12:55 PM

Anyway, cool...lots of places say it's in stock...I was hunting around for infant seat alternatives when that Tribune article came out, but no one seems to care too much afterall :whistle:

Yeah, the Trib article is what put it back on my radar :)

I didn't realize it was in stock already. Interesting.

And I did double-check on the RF tether, and the manual does clearly state for FF only.

flutie128

03-10-2009, 02:22 PM

Does it look like the shoulder pads make the chest clip too low? I was just looking at the seat and was thinking that but I am not really a car seat expert.

joolsplus3

03-10-2009, 03:11 PM

http://www.combicoccoro.com/

pretty pretty pictures...

And yeah, the stock pictures do show some pretty long chest pads (common in EU and Japanese seats without chest clips), though honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they are too long, the Connection pads are just totally way way way too long and press the chest clip far too low on tiny babies.

An Aurora

03-10-2009, 03:13 PM

Does it look like the shoulder pads make the chest clip too low? I was just looking at the seat and was thinking that but I am not really a car seat expert.

I'm sure they would have thought of that ;)

SillyLily

03-10-2009, 04:39 PM

I'm sure this seat has probably been mentioned a bunch on here, but this is the first time I've seen/heard about it. I love it! I just found out today that I am expecting (we've been trying, so I'm super stoked), so I will be doing the three-across thing in my two cars. I might like this better than an infant carrier.

Momof4Girls

03-10-2009, 05:13 PM

Congratulations!!

SillyLily

03-11-2009, 12:29 PM

Congratulations!!

Thanks! :)

bobandjess99

03-11-2009, 03:26 PM

ketchupqueen

03-11-2009, 06:53 PM

I'm sure they would have thought of that ;)

Like Recaro did? :whistle:

joolsplus3

03-11-2009, 07:46 PM

hhhmmm...it essentially looks to me like an infant bucket you can also turn forward facing.
It SCARES me, because I think most people who buy one will rf to 20, ff until they can't anymore,then plunk their (what,2 year old?) into a booster.

I know people are...naive..but won't they notice the lack of a handle and the labels saying RF/FF numbers on them? :scratcheshead: RF to 2? Who would do that? :eek:

LISmama810

03-11-2009, 07:56 PM

I'm sure they would have thought of that ;)

There are a couple infant seats with ridiculously long shoulder pads. You'd like to THINK that manufacturers take that into consideration, but they don't always.

hhhmmm...it essentially looks to me like an infant bucket you can also turn forward facing.

Yeah, like the Zeus...:whistle::rolleyes:

ketchupqueen

03-11-2009, 08:03 PM

I know people are...naive..but won't they notice the lack of a handle and the labels saying RF/FF numbers on them? :scratcheshead: RF to 2? Who would do that? :eek:

Lack of handle? Yes. Labels saying numbers? Who reads those??? :p

Oh, and BTW, I have thought of another problem with this installation: I patiently explained to my almost-step-mother that that is not how the belt goes when installing a U.S. seat. Now if she ever sees one of these I'm going to have to go into how different seats have different rules and she will be very confused (she is easily confused.) So I guess I'll never own one of these (oh drat, how incredibly sad.) ;)

An Aurora

03-11-2009, 08:11 PM

Like Recaro did? :whistle:

I've never had a a problem with the Recaro strap covers interefering with the chest clip :confused:

ketchupqueen

03-11-2009, 08:58 PM

I just got a Como, and it came set up for an infant. The strap covers, if used for an infant, would put the chest clip over the belly. And, they don't even address this in the manual. :thumbsdown:

atsuydam

03-11-2009, 09:04 PM

If I don't have the strap covers pushed all the way up and over DD2's shoulders so that they are up against the cover they would push her chest clip to low. And she is nearing 3 yrs. So yeah, manufactures should consider that but don't. I think they assume common sense?

LISmama810

03-11-2009, 10:02 PM

I think they assume common sense?

I don't think they ever assume that. I think it's more a matter of European car seat companies not understanding chest clips. The European seats don't have chest clips, so they can have long shoulder pads.

capeKO71

03-11-2009, 10:37 PM

So the fact sheet said something about being "stroller compatible"... maybe that's why the rear facing install is how it is.

Vera Fullaway, Combi USA

03-13-2009, 10:00 AM

Hello Jennie and fellow CPS Technicians, Instructors and Advocates:

We are delighted that you took interest in the Combi Coccoro Convertible Seat and read our instruction manual. I’d like to clarify your concerns.

The fabric has easy to locate snaps next to the rear-facing belt path which exposes an open belt path. We have found this type of routing for the lap belt to be much easier to work with than the tunnel types of paths that require threading through a narrow space. Once exposed, the belt path allows for placement of the lap belt in the correct position with much less effort and complicated threading through a narrow space.

The European method of placing the shoulder belt behind the seat back in a rear facing position allows for better ride-down during a crash. We do understand that this method is not always practical and sometimes not possible, so have provided a traditional buckle-to-retractor path as an option. The seat has undergone extensive crash testing that supersedes and exceeds FMVSS 213 crash pulses and performance requirements. The restraint has proven to perform very well with both methods of securement to the vehicle seat.

FMVSS 213 requires all manufacturers to label height restrictions on all restraints sold in the USA. The 40 inch height on the label represents the standing height of a 50th percentile child. The 16 inch harness slot is adequate for most children up to 4 years old. As with all child restraint products, the seat should be fitted to the child. If the child is much taller, a different seat should be selected to accommodate the child’s height.
The Coccoro Convertible Child Seat is designed to fit into smaller vehicles and accommodate the deep contours found in the compact cars – both rear and forward facing. It’s narrow and light weight construction allows for easier fit into narrower seats and easier portability.

I hope you will be able to join us at one of the many State and National CPS Conferences we will be participating in this year to become more familiar with the seat and it’s installation benefits. The Combi CARES Calendar is posted on our website: www.combi-intl.com.

Please feel free to email or call me at any time.

Kind regards,
Vera Fullaway | Combi CARES Community Outreach Program Instructor | Tel: 303.378.2932 | Email: vfullaway@comcast.net

CPSDarren

03-13-2009, 03:34 PM

I hope to have a quick review of the Coccoro at www.carseatblog.com next week. A full review will follow in a few weeks, including installs in some compact and sub-compact cars that are the intended market for this seat.

You know, the rear-facing tether on Britax seats confuses technicians to this day, about 10 years after it was introduced. Round-the-back shoulder belt routing is common in Europe. I don't think it should be shunned just because it isn't how we've done things in the past. Otherwise, we are stuck with the same old thing every time a new model is released and there is little room for innovation.

UlrikeDG

03-13-2009, 04:34 PM

You know, the rear-facing tether on Britax seats confuses technicians to this day, about 10 years after it was introduced. Round-the-back shoulder belt routing is common in Europe. I don't think it should be shunned just because it isn't how we've done things in the past. Otherwise, we are stuck with the same old thing every time a new model is released and there is little room for innovation.

:yeahthat: I was thinking the same thing. Without actually having numbers to back it up, the "European routing" of the shoulder belt should help prevent over rotation, and it's not *that* wonky.

An Aurora

03-13-2009, 04:55 PM

Without actually having numbers to back it up, the "European routing" of the shoulder belt should help prevent over rotation, and it's not *that* wonky.

It definitely makes for a very secure install. :thumbsup:

LISmama810

03-13-2009, 05:40 PM

I don't think it should be shunned just because it isn't how we've done things in the past. Otherwise, we are stuck with the same old thing every time a new model is released and there is little room for innovation.

I'm definitely not shunning it--I think it's actually kind of cool. But I do think it will be confusing for people. Not saying that it shouldn't be done, though.

I can't wait for the review and more info. I would consider this seat myself as a "bridge," if not a long-term solution.

sunnymw

03-13-2009, 09:16 PM

Can't wait for a review. From where I'm sitting... well, it looks like a hoity-toity overpriced comfortsport.

Vera Fullaway

03-14-2009, 04:37 PM

Hello Jennie and fellow CPS Technicians, Instructors and Advocates:

We are delighted that you took interest in the Combi Coccoro Convertible Seat and read our instruction manual. I’d like to clarify your concerns.

The fabric has easy to locate snaps next to the rear-facing belt path which expose an open belt path. We have found this type of routing for the lap belt to be much easier to work with than the tunnel types of paths that require threading through a narrow space. Once exposed, the belt path allows for placement of the lap belt in the correct position with much less effort and complicated threading through a narrow space.

The European method of placing the shoulder belt behind the seat back in a rear facing position allows for better ride-down during a crash. We do understand that this method is not always practical and sometimes not possible, so have provided a traditional buckle-to-retractor path as an option. The seat has undergone extensive crash testing that supersedes and exceeds FMVSS 213 crash pulses and performance requirements. The restraint has proven to perform very well with both methods of securement to the vehicle seat.

FMVSS 213 requires all manufacturers to label height restrictions on all restraints sold in the USA. The 40 inch height on the label represents the standing height of a 50th percentile child. The 16 inch harness slot is adequate for most children up to 4 years old. As with all child restraint products, the seat should be fitted to the child. If the child is much taller, a different seat should be selected to accommodate the child’s height.
The Coccoro Convertible Child Seat is designed to fit into smaller vehicles and accommodate the deep contours found in the compact cars – both rear and forward facing. It’s narrow and light weight construction allows for easier fit into narrower seats and easier portability. The stroller that has been developed for the Coccoro will be available within the next several months. The Coccoro seat will be able to lock into the stroller.

I hope you will be able to join us at one of the many State and National CPS Conferences we will be participating in this year to become more familiar with the seat and it’s installation benefits. The Combi CARES Calendar is posted on our website: www.combi-intl.com.

Please feel free to email or call me at any time.

Kind regards,
Vera Fullaway | Combi CARES Community Outreach Program Instructor | Tel: 303.378.2932 | Email: vfullaway@comcast.net

ketchupqueen

03-14-2009, 04:42 PM

LISmama810

03-14-2009, 05:40 PM

Vera- Thank you for the info! I look forward to seeing the seat in real life.

MissKatie

03-14-2009, 10:01 PM

I can't wait to play with one of these. Anyone know if they will be sold in any brick & mortar stores?

Blondie87

03-14-2009, 10:13 PM

Someone on my car seat safety thread on cafemom posted this today...

so i happened to stop into our "once upon a child" and they had one of each of these in stock and able to be "played" with. So i couldnt help myself. they are really small, sleek looking but so not worth the $200 price tag!

1. 4 height slots, highest was 13.75", which is the one my DD was buckled in on. slot 3 was 1/2 below her shoulder.

2. only the bottom 2 slots are for RF! and the top for FF only!

3. Theres NO WAY a 40lbs child would fit in here, its the same size as an infant seat, maybe even a bit narrower.

4. It is very well padded. I put DD in it and she said 'mommy its soo cushy'. The baby insert only adds to that feel.

5. Would be great convertible to use for a newborn! Low low slots and tons of soft (memory foam) type padding.

6. colors are incredible!

7. the shell is definatly shorter than our Titan. DD has 2.5" left above her head in the titan and barely 1" in this one!

8. its all round. the seat doesnt have a flat surface to install on. I dont quite see how you would get a good RF or FF install in it. along w/ that the RF belt path seemed like it would be a PITA to get to, however the FF one is very easily accessible.

9. very lightweight. pro and a con IMO.

10. the harness adjuster would be hidden when RF installed b/c its on the front of the seat.

11. love the chest clip and new buckle retainer. so easy for an adult to use, but both DD and DS couldnt figure it out!!

12. I dont see how a 40" child could fit in this seat! DD is 32" and on the last slot of it w/ the slot about 1/2 above her shoulder! I put my son in it just to see how he would look, mind you he's too big but...his whole head was out of the seat and he's 43" tall!!

13. the lock-offs were nice. seemed easy enough to use.

I will have to go back and get pics of my DD in it. She's 3.5, 28lbs, and 32" and would be outgrown almost on this seat. Which would mean most 2.5 year olds would be!

safeinthecar

03-15-2009, 02:17 AM

I played with one at Lullaby today and reviewed it in Car Seat Chat. My experience was totally different then the cafemom poster. I got 15 inches (same as RA) for the top slot without even pressing the padding. I'll go back and measure again with light pressure and see if I can confirm the manufacturer's measurement of 16 inches.

The shell is 22 inches, again, not compressing the padding at all. That's taller than an RA by a good inch.

I'm wondering if the CM poster was trying her child in it with the infant padding. It's easily 2-3 inches thick.

I need a kid to try in it. Hey Natsyr...wanna go to lullaby with me next week?

Kat_Momof3

03-15-2009, 04:02 AM

maybe the infant insert makes enough of a difference as to affect measurement... I am pretty sure that her 3.5yr old shouldn't be using it.

safeinthecar

03-15-2009, 04:09 AM

maybe the infant insert makes enough of a difference as to affect measurement... I am pretty sure that her 3.5yr old shouldn't be using it.

Unless the 3yo is under 20# and rfing.

musicmaj

03-15-2009, 08:40 AM

16 inches, huh? So, taller than originally anticipated. Almost as tall as the Avenue... At least better than the Scenera.

Okay, checked out the website and laughed at the description-- they're advertising that it fits in a Corolla? You can get most anything in a Corolla, really. When they said this was designed for small cars I was thinking the MINI, New Beetles, two-doors, things like that...

Maybe they are talking about my older corolla - I only have 46 inches of hip room in there. That seat would have been great when my youngest was little. I can barely fit in the two parkways and radian. It is so tight that I am not happy with it and am trying to figure out some other configuration, like putting one of the kids in a travel vest.

serabi

03-15-2009, 11:22 AM

Maybe they are talking about my older corolla - I only have 46 inches of hip room in there. That seat would have been great when my youngest was little. I can barely fit in the two parkways and radian. It is so tight that I am not happy with it and am trying to figure out some other configuration, like putting one of the kids in a travel vest.

yeah, I have a '93 Geo Prizm which is the same body as a '93 Corolla (same shop manual and everything) and there's not a ton of space in the back seat. This Coccoro actually looks really intriguing to me.

OwensMama

03-15-2009, 12:55 PM

I hope I can find this seat. For some strange reason I am intrigued by it, though I have no reason to be. Can I come check out yours Darren? :whistle: :p

spokaneCPST

03-15-2009, 01:03 PM

At a tech update, we were shown a picture of the Cocorro 3 across, in a Corolla I think. There was a little space between each seat - looked like a nice fit.

sixmaybemore

03-15-2009, 03:40 PM

Interesting. A friend of mine was telling me yesterday that there was a seat made just for the Mini (she's an owner). Instead of sitting around wondering, I should have just headed over here to see what I could find...

It sure is pretty, though. I want to see it and play with it lol.