School bus safety discussion/ They told me there's enough chaperones

[HEVY]

But since I am so paranoid I can drive rachel to her school trip. They offered to have her sit in between each teacher but I don't know. DH says I got to let her go. I know buses are safer yada yada yada..........But all I see on the news is school bus accident here, school bus accident there. What can I do to make her safer on the bus? Or what can I do to rid the fear and anxiety?

[Simplysomething]

Does she not ride a bus to and from school? Is it going to be a big yellow bus? Does she know how to sit properly on the bus?

[Melizerd]

Let her go. She needs to know that you trust other adults and busses really are safer.

Riding the bus on a field trip is part of the fun and experience of the trip. Sometimes we just have to take a leap of faith. Putting another car on the road is more dangerous really.

[chickabiddy]

Big yellow busses are way safer than cars, and it's important for your daughter to be part of the class.

[Jeanum]

Perhaps some stats would help to reassure you and put school bus safety in perspective? I jotted down some school bus safety stats during a lecture on school bus safety at a CEU conference for CPSTs a couple of weeks ago. Let me find my notes.

23.5 million children in the U.S. ride the school bus to and from school and to and from school related activities daily on approx. 440,000 school buses. There were 7 total child fatalities on board these school buses in the U.S. over the course of one year (sorry, my notes don't say which year) and 4 bus driver fatalities. There were 800 child fatalities in passenger vehicles operated by parents/caregivers who were driving children to and from school only, not including any driving to and from school related activities, over the course of the same year. :( 800 kids > 7 kids + 4 bus drivers, although losing anyone to a crash is regrettable.

The other take away from the lecturer was to ideally avoid riding in the first few rows or in the last several rows closest to the back of the bus, to be farther away from possible frontal or rear impacts, but to again bear in mind that the school bus is statistically much safer than riding in a regular passenger vehicle overall and someone always has to ride in the front-most and rear-most rows on a full school bus anyway.

Does that help put things in perspective? :) I know stats like this did for me when DD1 started school and began riding the school bus, and this lecture helped reinforce the decision to let her ride the school bus instead of driving her to and from school daily. My only qualm now is that DD1 is assigned the seat right behind the school bus driver due to her food allergies, rather than a seat farther back on the bus.

[BW1426]

Perhaps some stats would help to reassure you and put school bus safety in perspective? I jotted down some school bus safety stats during a lecture on school bus safety at a CEU conference for CPSTs a couple of weeks ago. Let me find my notes.

23.5 million children in the U.S. ride the school bus to and from school and to and from school related activities daily on approx. 440,000 school buses. There were 7 total child fatalities on board these school buses in the U.S. over the course of one year (sorry, my notes don't say which year) and 4 bus driver fatalities, There were 800 child fatalities in passenger vehicles operated by parents/caregivers who were driving children to and from school only, not including any driving to and from school related activities, over the course of the same year. :( 800 kids > 7 kids + 4 bus drivers, although losing anyone to a crash is regrettable.

The other take away from the lecturer was to ideally ride in the middle of the school bus rather than in the first few rows or in the last several rows closest to the back of the bus, to be farther away from possible frontal or rear impacts, but to again bear in mind that the school bus is statistically much safer than riding in a regular passenger vehicle overall and someone always has to ride in the front-most and rear-most rows on a full school bus anyway.

Does that help put things in perspective? :) I know stats like this did for me when DD1 started school and began riding the school bus, and this lecture helped reinforce the decision to let her ride the school bus instead of driving her to and from school daily. My only qualm now is that DD1 is assigned the seat right behind the school bus driver due to her food allergies, rather than a seat farther back on the bus.

Thank you for not making me get out of this chair that I seem to be glued to to get my notes and post this :p ;)

[Melizerd]

See that's why we need rep in the community forums!! :D

[Jeanum]

LOL. I was hoping you or Bookmama knew what year those stats were from. I didn't note the year and/or the lecturer didn't say what year they're from.

[BookMama]

LOL. I was hoping you or Bookmama knew what year those stats were from. I didn't note the year and/or the lecturer didn't say what year they're from.

I don't think she said a specific year - I seem to recall that she said "7 a year" and "800 a year," etc.

See that's why we need rep in the community forums!! :D

I think the original question could have reasonably been posted in one of the safety topics forums, where rep is allowed. :shrug-shoulders:

[Melizerd]

Yeah but it wasn't :shrug-shoulders:

[HEVY]

Thanks Jean,
I know buses are safer, that doesn't take away the anxiety, but that's my problem.
Her school is around the corner, literally behind my house.
We took a big yellow bus for her first trip, she sat in the lap belt and was good but the driver was a maniac and after that there were no more bus trips. I like to go on the trips as well, what's the use of being a SAHM if I can't participate? :(
I know it's good for her to go with her friends in the big bus instead of being a baby and going with mommy in the car seat :rolleyes: But I honestly don't trust anyone, other than school no one cares for my child but me and DH and he only does it in the house. I don't feel anyone can properly supervise my child as well as I do :whistle:
My anxiety will kill me for the next month, trip is on the 23rd. Even writing this I'm near fainting and got tears :crying: I know, that's my problem not hers.

I would also like to watch how she interacts with other kids, she still complains about no one being her friend, I know that can't be entirely true, but I would like to see.

[HEVY]

I think the original question could have reasonably been posted in one of the safety topics forums, where rep is allowed. :shrug-shoulders:

Wellllll, somoene could move it there :whistle: :D

[BW1426]

Hevy, your DD is substantially less safe on the bus using a seatbelt than not using a seatbelts.

In crash testing using seatbelts had poorer outcomes than not using seatbelts on school buses. Seatbelts are not designed to be a part of compartmentalization.

[codex57]

She's gotta grow up some time. I think part of the problem isn't really about safety, but letting her go off into the big bad world.

[doriansmummy]

If it makes you feel any better I would feel the same if my son was in public school.:whistle: We homeschool and we do use public transport. But I would have anxiety over a situation like this. But, really she is going to be in public school and this is something that comes along with it, if not now, it will be soon. I would just let her go and deal with your emotions as long as she is comfortable going on it.

[Jeanum]

Wellllll, somoene could move it there :whistle: :D

Done. :) I moved the thread to Carseat Chat where the school bus safety discussion and stats could be helpful for others and the thread can be archived. :)

[jillianrose]

If you makes you feel any better, I'm with you. I go on EACH and EVERY field trip with my daughters and they ride with me in their car/booster seats. I tell them I love to go on trips with them (and I really do) and that I think it's unsafe for them to ride on a bus without seatbelts or boosters. They're still young (5 & 7) and not the least bit embarrassed by mom's presence or paranoia, so for now it works for us. When they get older I may have to re-think things, but for now I'm happy and they're happy (and safe).

And in my opinion you are 100% correct, NO ONE will supervise or carefully watch your child like you do. I've seen kids run amok completely unsupervised on school trips, and that only serves to reinforce my paranoia and need to be there, at least until they are older, wiser, and have achieved their black belt in Tae Kwon Do! Go, and enjoy!!

[BW1426]

If you makes you feel any better, I'm with you. I go on EACH and EVERY field trip with my daughters and they ride with me in their car/booster seats. I tell them I love to go on trips with them (and I really do) and that I think it's unsafe for them to ride on a bus without seatbelts or boosters.

I'm sorry, but this just simply is not true. Cars have a far higher injury and death rate than buses. And, buses are designed to be safe without seatbelts. If you add seatbelts onto buses, they are actually LESS safe.

7 yes seven kids die a year on buses. 7. Only 7. And that's a real life number so that does take into account that kids don't sit perfectly 100% of the time.

When I was in school, the parents always rode the bus for school trips and we never had issues with kids running up and down the aisles. Not to say that everyone sat still 100% of the time, but there certainly were not people running up and down aisles.

Honestly, the bus accidents where children die or are severely injured are very unlikely circumstances. Such as, a bus falls off a bridge, or gets hit by a train. Because here is the thing. A passenger car or truck is too low to impact where the children sit. A train, semi, or other large vehicle is what a bus would have to be hit by in order to cause a substantial amount of damage.

Buses are designed to protect children Kindergarten and older through compartmentalization.

[kater-tot82]

Hevy, your DD is substantially less safe on the bus using a seatbelt than not using a seatbelts.

In crash testing using seatbelts had poorer outcomes than not using seatbelts on school buses. Seatbelts are not designed to be a part of compartmentalization.

I have been telling my DD to buckle up all year...not necessarily for safety as much as it keeps her in her seat on the bus. Should I be telling her not to? When she wasn't buckling up before, she was frequently getting out of her seat per the bus driver. (We are in New York and all buses have seat belts). I guess now I am confused on what I should be advising my daughter...:confused:

[BW1426]

I have been telling my DD to buckle up all year...not necessarily for safety as much as it keeps her in her seat on the bus. Should I be telling her not to? When she wasn't buckling up before, she was frequently getting out of her seat per the bus driver. (We are in New York and all buses have seat belts). I guess now I am confused on what I should be advising my daughter...:confused:

Let me see if I can find the crash test videos we saw. Be right back.

[BW1426]

Here is an article (http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/122574/article.html#)

Near the top of this article there is a link to a video. Watch the video.

[chickabiddy]

I agree with BW 100% and I'm going to go out on a limb here -- the OP wrote that her daughter complains about not having friends. I am going to suggest that not allowing the child to participate with the rest of the class and displaying high levels of anxiety about normal activities may not be doing the child any favors.

[CaseyRN]

I agree with Chickabiddy. You have to relax and release just a tiny bit.


Let her ride the bus.

[Mommy0608]

Perhaps some stats would help to reassure you and put school bus safety in perspective? I jotted down some school bus safety stats during a lecture on school bus safety at a CEU conference for CPSTs a couple of weeks ago. Let me find my notes.

23.5 million children in the U.S. ride the school bus to and from school and to and from school related activities daily on approx. 440,000 school buses. There were 7 total child fatalities on board these school buses in the U.S. over the course of one year (sorry, my notes don't say which year) and 4 bus driver fatalities. There were 800 child fatalities in passenger vehicles operated by parents/caregivers who were driving children to and from school only, not including any driving to and from school related activities, over the course of the same year. :( 800 kids > 7 kids + 4 bus drivers, although losing anyone to a crash is regrettable.

The other take away from the lecturer was to ideally avoid riding in the first few rows or in the last several rows closest to the back of the bus, to be farther away from possible frontal or rear impacts, but to again bear in mind that the school bus is statistically much safer than riding in a regular passenger vehicle overall and someone always has to ride in the front-most and rear-most rows on a full school bus anyway.

Does that help put things in perspective? :) I know stats like this did for me when DD1 started school and began riding the school bus, and this lecture helped reinforce the decision to let her ride the school bus instead of driving her to and from school daily. My only qualm now is that DD1 is assigned the seat right behind the school bus driver due to her food allergies, rather than a seat farther back on the bus.

Haha, I was going to type all this too, my notes from that conference happen to be sitting right here next to me. Of course, you beat me to it. ;)

To the OP, as hard as it might be, I'd let her go. If your DD was under 4 years old I wouldn't, but she's old enough and big enough for the full benefits of compartmentalization. I've always feared my DD's first bus ride, but after hearing this speaker I am much more confident in her safety on the bus (even though it's still a couple years away). :thumbsup:

[HEVY]

Hevy, your DD is substantially less safe on the bus using a seatbelt than not using a seatbelts.

In crash testing using seatbelts had poorer outcomes than not using seatbelts on school buses. Seatbelts are not designed to be a part of compartmentalization.

Ok, see that does NOT make me feel any better. Worse. Where do I get one of those harness things for the bus :whistle:

I also really want to go on the trip but it looks like she might be going without me. I expected this to happen at around 7, the earliest, not now :(

[chickabiddy]

Unless there are special needs, school-age children on big yellow busses do not need to be belted or harnessed. Please read what Jeanum and others have posted.

[BW1426]

Ok, see that does NOT make me feel any better. Worse. Where do I get one of those harness things for the bus :whistle:

I also really want to go on the trip but it looks like she might be going without me. I expected this to happen at around 7, the earliest, not now :(

Why doesn't that make you feel better :confused: Did you watch the video I linked?

Also, the harness isn't necessary. If you use the harness and they don't provide a buffer (no children in the seat behind her) she could be badly injured. Really, the school bus is very SAFE. Way safer than your (or anyone else's) vehicle.

You need to think of school buses as entirely different from cars. You just have to. They're very different.

[Mommy0608]

LOL. I was hoping you or Bookmama knew what year those stats were from. I didn't note the year and/or the lecturer didn't say what year they're from.

In my notes from the lecture, I have "per year."

[Jeanum]

Thanks for confirming that. I noted the same thing and then wondered looking at my notes if I neglected to jot down a year. Not that it matters all that much, the stats probably don't change drastically from year to year, but I like details. :)

[Mommy0608]

Why doesn't that make you feel better :confused: Did you watch the video I linked?

Also, the harness isn't necessary. If you use the harness and they don't provide a buffer (no children in the seat behind her) she could be badly injured. Really, the school bus is very SAFE. Way safer than your (or anyone else's) vehicle.

You need to think of school buses as entirely different from cars. You just have to. They're very different.

:yeahthat:

I was at the same conference with Jean, Brie and Andrea. I used to be so nervous about DD having to ride the bus to school eventually, but hearing this lecture and seeing the videos really eased my mind. School buses are completely different than family vehicles.

In the lecture, the speaker told us specifically the section of video showing the crash test of unrestrained children (I believe it's the first section in the video Brie linked) would look horrifying. Yes, at first glance, it doesn't look good (and I could hear the gasps in the crowd), but really if you watch the crash test dummy bodies and understand what is happening, you can see that their backs, necks and heads stay aligned much more than they do with seatbelts. Their whole body moves vertically into the padded seat in front, then backward into the padding behind the back. This spreads the crash forces among their whole upper body (whole body contacting seat in front, not just the head, etc.) Also, it protects the child from spinal injuries because the head is not thrust forward. Does this make sense? If I'm not explaining this well, maybe someone else can chime in.

[HEVY]

I understand whats being said and shown, but it's really scary, to make a conscious decision to not use a seat belt. I mean do I really say "Oh BTW don't use a seatbelt" LOL. They will really think I'm crazy then :p
Most of the bus accidents I've seen in the news have involved the bus tipping, what happens then?

I know I'm being irrational, I can't prevent anything from happening in life. It's just thinking about it. :o

[BW1426]

Most of the bus accidents I've seen in the news have involved the bus tipping, what happens then?


The kids don't magically stay in their seats without seatbelts. But still, those accidents are included in the statistics at whatever rate they occur. Seven deaths. Only seven. Yeah there's likely to be bumps and bruises, but I can deal with that.

[Mommy0608]

When you think about it, bus crashes are all over the news when they happen because it's rare (and of course involves children), but how often do we hear about these? Could you imagine what the news would be like if every car accident involving kids going to/from school was featured in the broadcast?! There would be lots of accidents in the news every single day.

It's kind of like train or airplane accidents... they are very, very rare so we hear about them all. Trains and airplanes are also safer than cars, but that's another topic.

Bus tipping is a serious incident, we all know that. Like you said, we can't prevent everything, and sometimes crashes like that happen. These crashes also happen in cars (roll overs, etc.) and there's nothing we can do to prevent it. All we can do is educate ourselves and look closely at the statistics. I understand that it is hard to accept that buses really are safer with compartmentalization, because it's simply not what we're accustomed to.

[BW1426]

When you think about it, bus crashes are all over the news when they happen because it's rare (and of course involves children), but how often do we hear about these? Could you imagine what the news would be like if every car accident involving kids going to/from school was featured in the broadcast?! There would be lots of accidents in the news every single day.

It's kind of like train or airplane accidents... they are very, very rare so we hear about them all. Trains and airplanes are also safer than cars, but that's another topic.

Bus tipping is a serious incident, we all know that. Like you said, we can't prevent everything, and sometimes crashes like that happen. These crashes also happen in cars (roll overs, etc.) and there's nothing we can do to prevent it. All we can do is educate ourselves and look closely at the statistics. I understand that it is hard to accept that buses really are safer with compartmentalization, because it's simply not what we're accustomed to.

Really well put, Jenny :)

[CelticLabyrinth]

UGH.

I had to watch the video of the child in the lap belt. Chris rides in a lap belt to and from school on the bus :( .

[jen_nah]

Ok, see that does NOT make me feel any better. Worse. Where do I get one of those harness things for the bus :whistle:

I also really want to go on the trip but it looks like she might be going without me. I expected this to happen at around 7, the earliest, not now :(

Oh you would HATE living in my school district then. All children participating in a school activity are required to ride the bus to & from the field trip. Plus no other adult besides authorized ISD employees are allowed to ride on the bus. This means all of us parents that are chaperoning must ride in our own vehicles to & from the field trip.