Old Classic Car...?

[Blondie87]

So on another forum of mine.. someone posted this. I am not sure so I figured I'd post it here and give her the link. Should she get shoulder belts put in? Doesn't seem safe for even an adult to drive in.

I know some of you are far more schooled on car seats and car seat safety than I am so.... I have a question.

One of my cars is a classic. 1967 VW Squareback.
Lap belts only in front, where the bucket type seats are half backed.
Also lap belts ony in the back seat, which is a bench style half backed seat.

Is it even possible to correctly install a convertible car seat OR a booster of any sort whatsoever in this car?

I've honestly been so boggled (and lazy) about this issue, that I just keep the kids out of that car entirely.

What say the car seat gurus???

[canmom]

Hmmm... I don't think it is safe, with the lack of shoulder belts as well as the half back style seats (hoping I'm understanding correctly). You can install car seats (as in harnessed seats) with a lap only belt but I'm not sure how the car seat manufacturers would feel about half backs. Boosters are not to be used with a lap only belt though. It would also depend on the belt system (I know some old cars have belt systems that are not compatible with car seats). Lap belts are generally accepted as not safe for anyone to use, if they only have half backs as well that would make it even more unsafe IMHO. That being said, who is going to take a classic car and change out the seats and retrofit shoulder belts??? :confused:

[LISmama810]

I don't know what half-backed seats are. Does that mean low seatbacks? If so, that's dangerous from a whiplash perspective.

If possible, I would definitely have shoulder belts installed, but I don't know how that's done. I know I've seen some classic cars with them installed, but I don't know how they get that way. :o

As a PP said, harnessed seats can be installed with lap belts just fine, but depending on what kind of lap belts they are, they might require a belt-shortening clip, which is a PITA (though perfectly do-able).

We (and many manufacturers) usually recommend replacing seatbelts after 10 years, so even if she doesn't get shoulder belts installed, she should get the lap belts replaced.

Boosters cannot be used with lap-only belts, and vests, etc. require head support, which it sounds like this doesn't have.

As a driver or passenger, I would not ride in the car without shoulder belts.

[bobandjess99]

...

[LISmama810]

That last comment was awfully harsh. Keep in mind that the OP is giving the link to this thread to the woman who posed the question. There's no need to be mean when someone is asking a legitimate question.

[Synchro246]

We own a classic car and we love our classics in this house. I understand the appreciation one can have for classic cars and the enjoyment they bring. However, I would not put my children in one (well, under most circumstances). Even if the vehicle belts are new and the seat installs well there are two things that prevent me from trusting the older vehicle to protect my children.
1) the bodies of newer vehicles are designed to absorb crash forces in a way that is far superior to older vehicles. This is the #1 protection that passengers have.
2) Accident avoidance is also likely to be impared in older vehicles. I know many old cars handle well and have modern brakes, but I also know that many have manual steering and manual brakes (on purpose) and no matter how skilled the driver these are just going to be more difficult to control in a close-call situation. If the owner of this VW feels that the car is as easily handled as their daily driver then maybe it's not as much of an issue for them as it is with our particular car.
Number one still stands though, the body of the vehicle is the main protection for the occupants and I personally just don't feel comfortable putting my kids in it for road use. (and I absoultely shudder to think that my first car was a '71 bug)

[Blondie87]

She read the posts, and was pretty upset about the harsh comment, she read it before it was erased. But she said she did get some good suggestions and input! :)

[canmom]

I have no idea what was said, but I'm glad she thought enough of it to ask and I'm glad she got some good input. I have often wondered about classic cars for these issues, I was glad to see others have the same concerns.

[Maedze]

Could someone clarify what 'half-backed' means? I'm having trouble understanding why a traditional harnessed seat couldn't be used in that seating position.

Obviously a BPB is out (and honestly I wouldn't want an adult riding there either, but hey, someone's gotta drive the thing :p ).


For your friend, I would mention she needs to see about getting the belts replaced (if not retrofitted, which is probably not possible). Definitely replaced. The webbing on the things does degrade.

[canmom]

I'm not classic car guru but I'm pretty certain half backed seats is literally a half backed seat. The seat back would only come up half way on you.... nothing supporting your upper back, neck and head.

[babygirlsmom1005]

Depending on if she is willing to do seat replacements or not, I would not be comfortable with a carseat or child in a half backed seat (I looked online and it doesn't look they they are avaiable OEM or aftermarket, so she would have to go with a highbacked seat and of corse like a PP said, seatbelts have a life of 10 years - even when not stated by the manufacturer due to liability issues, they degrade just like everything else, so it will possibly be time for her to replace the seatbelts in the vehicle anyway - we replace seat belts when we buy vehicles - we buy used and usually older vehicles - like my 92 Surburban, that was one of the first things done when purchased).

My husband and I are into classic cars (1970-1974 Nova's and 1967-1972 Chevy Trucks) and my daughter hasn't been in any of them (the last time I drove my baby, a 1972 Chevrolet Cheynne that my DH and I built was when I was 2 month pregnant with her to move it from one place to another, she's been sitting for almost 4 years now...sigh...she's a lot of fun to drive). I know in my truck, it has lap belts but has the cut out for a sholder belts with a plug over it since they were just starting to put sholder belts in vehicles, mine just didn't come with that option.

I would have her talk to someone that works with VW's and discuss possible seat replacement and correctly installing sholder belts in it (any dealership should be able to help out with the installation and making sure the seat belts are placed properly/bolted down correctly, etc...) before deciding to put any child in there. I can say, this won't be a cheap project to do, so I guess it depends on if this is going to become a daily driver with the kids in it or something more for pleasure....if more for pleasure, I may be inclined to just avoid driving it with the kids and keeping it for myself/herself like she has already been doing.

[mommycat]

Probably this:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2379360
http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_images/2/4518/2201/23793600003_large.jpg

[LISmama810]

Depending on if she is willing to do seat replacements or not, I would not be comfortable with a carseat or child in a half backed seat

I'm still unclear about what a half-backed seat is. Is it just a short seatback? If so, I don't see the problem in putting a harnessed seat there, unless the seat specifically requires support behind it. (Other than the Apex, I can't think of any harnessed/shelled seats that require a high seatback/headrest.)

Does anyone have a good photo of the back seat? (Maybe the seatback is only six inches tall or something? :confused:)

Like others, I'd have concerns about the overall safety of the car, and I wouldn't want older children or adults to ride in it with only lapbelts (and no head support), but it certainly seems like it IS possible to properly install a child restraint in there.