Question about Australian Carseats (no chest clip?)

[clarinetb]

Okay, We're visiting family in New Zealand and they were able to borrow a carseat from someone for our visit, which was great. I just about had a hissy fit when I saw it! I calmed down a bit when I saw that Safe-N-Sound is made by Britax and it is a 2004 (they'd checked dates and expires and everything ahead of time for me!) But why doesn't it have a chest clip? It is so hard to tighten the harness and with no chest clip it makes me worried that it will slip off her shoulders in an accident!

I live in Canada and all the seats have chest clips. I worried that this one had just got lost, but all the seats I've seen here and in Australia didn't seem to have them!

Thought some of the local car seat experts could give me some insight :D

Thanks!
Lauren

[QuassEE]

Don't worry :)

Most countries don't use chest clips, and have requirements that you have to be able to get a child out of a carseat in a single motion or some-such reasoning behing it.. The chest clip is a pre-crash positioner, and serves no crash-related function. It's just to ensure that the harness is properly positioned before a crash. As long as the harness is nice and tight, and your child isn't moving it out of place then you're fine..

IN FACT.. there were carseats in Canada and the United States, made by Fisher-Price, that did not require chestclips when rear-facing.. The Stay-in-view and the Safe Embrace are two I can name ATM, there may have been more over the years. I had the Safe Embrace, and although I left the chest clip on so that I wouldn't lose it...I would've been completely comfortable using it without.

-Nicole.

[hipmaman]

Don't worry :)

Most countries don't use chest clips, and have requirements that you have to be able to get a child out of a carseat in a single motion or some-such reasoning behing it.. The chest clip is a pre-crash positioner, and serves no crash-related function. It's just to ensure that the harness is properly positioned before a crash. As long as the harness is nice and tight, and your child isn't moving it out of place then you're fine..

IN FACT.. there were carseats in Canada and the United States, made by Fisher-Price, that did not require chestclips when rear-facing.. The Stay-in-view and the Safe Embrace are two I can name ATM, there may have been more over the years. I had the Safe Embrace, and although I left the chest clip on so that I wouldn't lose it...I would've been completely comfortable using it without.

-Nicole.

:yeahthat: Except the Stay-in-View had a chest clip. But the infant Safe Embrace didn't have chest clip. And I think the convertible Safe Embrace had the chest clip for use ff, but not rf. Something like that

[QuassEE]

It's been a while--you're right, FPSEi (infant) was no chest clip, SIV was. FPSE was chest clip optional when RF, mandatory when FF. For a while they FPSE chest clips were going for $20+ on eBay because so many people lost theirs when RF.

-N.

[canadiangie]

Is it true that the chest clip for the SE came stored on the back of the seat fed onto the harness?

I checked one years ago (it was ff, sans chest clip) and when I turned the seat around lo and behold there it was fed onto the harness. :scratcheshead:

(manual was MIA so couldn't verify)

Man was the SE a nice seat... I miss it. I'd buy one tomorrow if I could.

[finn]

Its standard for our Safe and Sound/Britax car seats to not have chest clips, our Swedish seats also don't have them. Only the American seats have clips. If the straps are tight then you should be ok. If you lo is rf I tend to pull the straps tight at the back pulling on the splitter plate and then tighten it using the tightening strap.

Also please don't look too closely at the car seat installation and usage here its terrible :(

[leebeeag]

"Also please don't look too closely at the car seat installation and usage here its terrible "

:yeahthat:

i second this, the usage here in Australia is horrid..im amazed that its not breaking news every evening that a child has died because of poor or NO car seat usage..

[QuassEE]

That's what it's like here in British Columbia, and we even have a (new) law in place that should ensure all children are properly restrained. Yet.. 90% of the time, I see kids either improperly or completely un-restrained. We have the seats available to us, there's just no interest in preventing the #1 cause of death among children here in BC. They'd rather patch them back up in the hospital after a crash, I suppose.. like a carseat wouldn't be cheaper..?

-Nicole.

[smurf]

That's what it's like here in British Columbia, and we even have a (new) law in place that should ensure all children are properly restrained. Yet.. 90% of the time, I see kids either improperly or completely un-restrained. We have the seats available to us, there's just no interest in preventing the #1 cause of death among children here in BC.

Ditto to this, just replace BC with Quebec...:(

[delgirrrl]

As the others have said, chest clips are a US thing. Aus/NZ standard seats cannot have chest clips, and this is about emergency release from the seat in the event of a crash. The other differences you'll note is that there is no LATCH and the crotch strap is a split strap, making the seat a "6 point' harness. Please don't worry, as long as you have the straps firm and properly adjusted, (and obviously you would!), they'll stay in place. Also, as you've noted, Safe n Sound is the Australian arm of Britax, and very well regarded.

Enjoy your trip to New Zealand, I hope you have a great visit :)

[bubbaray]

That's what it's like here in British Columbia, and we even have a (new) law in place that should ensure all children are properly restrained. Yet.. 90% of the time, I see kids either improperly or completely un-restrained. We have the seats available to us, there's just no interest in preventing the #1 cause of death among children here in BC. They'd rather patch them back up in the hospital after a crash, I suppose.. like a carseat wouldn't be cheaper..?


Sing it, Nicole.

Chest clips are the least of our problems in BC. How about unrestrained toddlers, sitting on front seat passenger's lap (who also had no seatbelt on) in a car with front airbags....

Every.single.time I'm out, I see horrible, blatant car seat abuse. Or, rather, lack of car seat.... So frustrating.

[QuassEE]

Do you realize that, if carseat technicians were employed by the province, we'd actually pay for ourselves many times over in healthcare cost reductions? So the provincial government has these new ads on the radio, asking for input on healthcare. I sent that in--saying we need to look at prevention, because it's a whole lot easier than patching everyone up after the fact. I used the carseats and kids example (#1 cause of death, more preventable than leukemia by far..but cancer researchers get all the funding.)

They didn't get back to me.

Some of us are pondering writing a publish-worthy article on the topic to distribute to the papers, but I need to focus on finals for the next week before I can shift my attention.

Editing to add--I apologize for the hijack.. I should know better. :(

-N.

[TechnoGranola]

And I think the convertible Safe Embrace had the chest clip for use ff, but not rf. Something like thatI had the Safe Embrace, and at least in Canada you could use the chest clip RF (not sure if you HAD to use it, but I know you could)

Is it true that the chest clip for the SE came stored on the back of the seat fed onto the harness?I don't recall that. When I bought ours, the chest clip was on the harness like they come nowadays.

[TechnoGranola]

As the others have said, chest clips are a US thing. Aus/NZ standard seats cannot have chest clips, and this is about emergency release from the seat in the event of a crash.So, in Aus/NZ, do they take kids out of their seats in a crash? I've seen a couple of kids removed from crashes in Canada by EMTs/Paramedics (kids were fine!) and the emergency personnel took out the ENTIRE child restraint and checked the kid out while kid was in the child restraint. I think it was due to potential spinal injuries where pulling a child out of their seat could potentially worsen the injury. So, I wouldn't think the chest clip would be a huge issue once the child and seat are out of the vehicle anyway. Also, don't chest clips break in crashes of a certain force?

[bubbaray]

Also, EMTs/ambulance attendants prefer (require?) children to be transported in car seats in the ambulance (at least here in BC).

When DD#2 had to go lights & sirens to the ER (anaphylaxis), they strapped her MA to the stretcher and off we went. At least she was upright and I could see her and she was in her familiar seat. She would have gone ballistic if they had strapped her to a stretcher (she was 11.5m old).

[QuassEE]

I believe the single click motion requirement is a fire/immediate danger issue.

In any significant crash, a child should be restrained to the child restraint (especially at the head) and the restraint as a whole removed from the vehicle. It acts the same as when they strap adults to a board, and can reduce further damage. I actually have an emergency seatbelt cutter for this very purpose. So no, unless there was a more immediate danger you would never remove a child from their restraint in a significant crash.

-Nicole.

[TechnoGranola]

I believe the single click motion requirement is a fire/immediate danger issue.That makes more sense. The same reason I don't zip up my toddler's coat over her harness. One more step for emergency personnel to fiddle with in those situations!

[delgirrrl]

I believe the single click motion requirement is a fire/immediate danger issue.

In any significant crash, a child should be restrained to the child restraint (especially at the head) and the restraint as a whole removed from the vehicle. It acts the same as when they strap adults to a board, and can reduce further damage. I actually have an emergency seatbelt cutter for this very purpose. So no, unless there was a more immediate danger you would never remove a child from their restraint in a significant crash.

-Nicole.

Yes, it is an 'immediate danger' issue - I don't know the specific background for the decision as that being part of the standard, but sadly, in NZ we have had several incidences of kiddies drowning stuck in cars after crashes. We have a lot of water here, a lot of rivers, and in some places unprotected culverts/drains adjacent to the road. (Gosh, I make it sound so 'third world' -it's not ;) but there are some danger factors which are amplified here)

I like the seatbelt cutter idea though. I might look into that.:thumbsup:

[tcottawa]

Do you realize that, if carseat technicians were employed by the province, we'd actually pay for ourselves many times over in healthcare cost reductions? So the provincial government has these new ads on the radio, asking for input on healthcare. I sent that in--saying we need to look at prevention, because it's a whole lot easier than patching everyone up after the fact. I used the carseats and kids example (#1 cause of death, more preventable than leukemia by far..but cancer researchers get all the funding.)

They didn't get back to me.

Some of us are pondering writing a publish-worthy article on the topic to distribute to the papers, but I need to focus on finals for the next week before I can shift my attention.

Editing to add--I apologize for the hijack.. I should know better. :(

-N.

That is an awesome point.



Also, I would love to be a tech for a living :)

[clarinetb]

Sorry I lost track of this thread before we headed home early December! :D
Thanks for all the info.

One question though, it seems to be counter-intuitive to say that the chest clip is just a positionin guide and isn't necessary in the sense of actually helping in a crash, yet in NA we say that the positioning of the chest clip is very important. If it is just to help position everything else, then as long as it was in the general right area (ie. not at the throat to choke a little one...) then that should be good enough... Do you know what i mean? I'm not arguing the placement of the clip, just that the two points seem to conflict in my mind..

"Also please don't look too closely at the car seat installation and usage here its terrible "

:yeahthat:

i second this, the usage here in Australia is horrid..im amazed that its not breaking news every evening that a child has died because of poor or NO car seat usage..

Yeah, very interesting! last time we were over we stayed with my aunt and uncle and I was pregnant at the time. They had their not quite two year old in a car seat that I couldn't believe was legal! A very, very basic shell, makes me thing 'bucket seat' and on top they had the harness twisted.

This time we took the borrowed seat from NZ to Australia. My other uncle commented that it might have been possible to borrow a carseat from my uncle - after seeing that carseat no thank you! :D

The split on the crotch strap is interesting. Drove my little one nuts, she kept telling me she had a boo-boo and pulling at it, seemed to dig into her thighs no matter what I did. Any particular rationale for this that anyone knows about?

thanks again!

[delgirrrl]

Sorry I lost track of this thread before we headed home early December! :D
Thanks for all the info.

One question though, it seems to be counter-intuitive to say that the chest clip is just a positionin guide and isn't necessary in the sense of actually helping in a crash, yet in NA we say that the positioning of the chest clip is very important. If it is just to help position everything else, then as long as it was in the general right area (ie. not at the throat to choke a little one...) then that should be good enough... Do you know what i mean? I'm not arguing the placement of the clip, just that the two points seem to conflict in my mind..

The split on the crotch strap is interesting. Drove my little one nuts, she kept telling me she had a boo-boo and pulling at it, seemed to dig into her thighs no matter what I did. Any particular rationale for this that anyone knows about?

thanks again!

Interestingly I was thinking about the chest clip yesterday. I have a Boulevard RFing for one of my kids, and it seems the straps might be at risk of sliding off her shoulders in certain impacts, were it not for the chest clip. However, IMHO the straps on my Australian seat, and swedish seat wouldn't. I think the US seats position the straps slightly differently than the European and Australian seats.

Re the crotch strap split, this is to "reduce genital loading" in the event of impact. So says Britax's australian arm anyway. I'd be inclined to agree, it seems to me to be preferable when strapping in a boy, anyway.