True Fit Use

[Unregistered]

Just got a True Fit for 14 mo. old, 19 lb. dd so we can rf 'til 35 lb. I have a few questions I'm hoping other TF users might help me with:

1. Is it okay to use the height insert even though her head is above the top of it. She LOVES it, but she is a little tall for it.

2. Any Subaru Outback drivers know if it is okay to "borrow" the LATCH hooks from the passenger seats. I would like to do a LATCH install in the middle but our Outback does not come equipped with LATCHes in the center seat (There would be no other carseats in the car, thus the LATCHes would not otherwise be occupied). I know that this is allowed in some vehicles and not others (I'm assuming because of how close or far apart they are), but I cannot seem to find anything about this in my owner's manual. I will keep digging for that answer, but I thought someone may know. We were able to get a tight seatbelt fit with our infant seat, but it is just too loose with this seat, and I REALLY want to keep her in the middle. I am not concerned with liability issues ...I know if the Subaru manual says not to that they could not be held responsible for anything going wrong; I am just interested in doing what is safest no matter what and center just seems safest always if I can get it tight enough. But I'm no expert, so please chime in and let me know.

3. Does anyone know if I can keep her rf in True Fit if I have to use the #3 shoulder height? Manual says "no", but in another post, someone talked to a tech person at True Fit who said you COULD RF in position #3. They also said it could be installed at 35-45 degree angle...did not necessarily have to be 45 degrees even though manual said so (and apparently the manual will be re-written to reflect that).

4. To determine correct harness height position, should I have her sitting straight up or in a more relaxed position that she might be in if she were asleep for instance?

Thanks in advance for help!

[snowbird25ca]

Hi, here's the link to your other thread, there are some replies on it as well. :)

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=62136

[ketchupqueen]

I would definitely call and clarify on the slot thing before using them.

[northernmommy]

Just got a True Fit for 14 mo. old, 19 lb. dd so we can rf 'til 35 lb. I have a few questions I'm hoping other TF users might help me with:

1. Is it okay to use the height insert even though her head is above the top of it. She LOVES it, but she is a little tall for it.

As long as she is under 22lbs, you can continue to use the infant insert

2. Any Subaru Outback drivers know if it is okay to "borrow" the LATCH hooks from the passenger seats. I would like to do a LATCH install in the middle but our Outback does not come equipped with LATCHes in the center seat (There would be no other carseats in the car, thus the LATCHes would not otherwise be occupied). I know that this is allowed in some vehicles and not others (I'm assuming because of how close or far apart they are), but I cannot seem to find anything about this in my owner's manual. I will keep digging for that answer, but I thought someone may know. We were able to get a tight seatbelt fit with our infant seat, but it is just too loose with this seat, and I REALLY want to keep her in the middle. I am not concerned with liability issues ...I know if the Subaru manual says not to that they could not be held responsible for anything going wrong; I am just interested in doing what is safest no matter what and center just seems safest always if I can get it tight enough. But I'm no expert, so please chime in and let me know.
You cannot borrow the LATCH anchors in this vehicle, sorry:(
3. Does anyone know if I can keep her rf in True Fit if I have to use the #3 shoulder height? Manual says "no", but in another post, someone talked to a tech person at True Fit who said you COULD RF in position #3. They also said it could be installed at 35-45 degree angle...did not necessarily have to be 45 degrees even though manual said so (and apparently the manual will be re-written to reflect that). Since the harness needs to be at or BELOW her shoulders, I'd be very surprised if she needed position 3 yet. My 18mo DS can barely use #2. That said, all torsos are different! Anyhow, the 3rd position CAN be used for RF, so don't worry about it:thumbsup:

4. To determine correct harness height position, should I have her sitting straight up or in a more relaxed position that she might be in if she were asleep for instance? Personally, I do it with them relaxed in the seat, as you don't want to mistakenly set the harness too high, and have it be above their shoulders once they fall asleep or slouch

Thanks in advance for help!

Hope that helps!

[snowbird25ca]

I would definitely call and clarify on the slot thing before using them.

Learning curve has provided clarification on their website, and the current online manual reflects position 3 being allowed for rf'ing. This is a case where there has been ample amounts of clarification provided to the point that I wouldn't bother calling them.

From what I have seen, the infant padding makes a huge difference in which slot is needed. It absolutely could make a child almost at the 3rd slots, but once it's removed drop the child enough that they're just barely above the 2nd ones. So there's still lots of growing room in the seat at present given that you're still using the padding and you'll gain a bunch of room when it's taken out. :thumbsup:

[northernmommy]

From what I have seen, the infant padding makes a huge difference in which slot is needed. It absolutely could make a child almost at the 3rd slots, but once it's removed drop the child enough that they're just barely above the 2nd ones. So there's still lots of growing room in the seat at present given that you're still using the padding and you'll gain a bunch of room when it's taken out. :thumbsup:

Good point Trudy, I didn't think of that :doh:

[snowbird25ca]

Good point Trudy, I didn't think of that :doh:

Hehe, I didn't believe the padding even could make that much difference until I saw it a few times. :o

[Unregistered]

Thanks for all of your help with my questions. I feel much better.....but I must say WAyyyyy bummed about the not being able to use the anchors. It makes me want to go buy a different car...*sigh*. Anybody need to buy a 2001 Subaru Outback...hehe.

Just out of curiosity...why IS it okay to "borrow" passenger side anchors in some vehicles but not others? Really honestly just curious...I promise I won't use them :)

[northernmommy]

I believe it has to do with how the bar that the LATCH anchors are attached to is set up...I'll see if I can remember the graphic I saw once....

They can be like this:
(_______) (________)

Or like this:
(_______)_____(________)


Ie, two shorter bars vs one long bar.


Hopefully someone will correct me if this is wrong!

[Jeanum]

Just out of curiosity...why IS it okay to "borrow" passenger side anchors in some vehicles but not others? Really honestly just curious...I promise I won't use them :)

The vehicle manufacturers that allow borrowing of outboard anchors to do a center installation have apparently tested it out with child restraints that also allow borrowing and determined it's not detrimental in a crash. The manufacturers that do not allow it have either not tested it out, or have tested it and determined it affected crash performance adversely. Borrowing has to be allowed by both the vehicle manufacturer and the child restraint manufacturer. :)

[NannyMom]

The vehicle manufacturers that allow borrowing of outboard anchors to do a center installation have apparently tested it out with child restraints that also allow borrowing and determined it's not detrimental in a crash. The manufacturers that do not allow it have either not tested it out, or have tested it and determined it affected crash performance adversely. Borrowing has to be allowed by both the vehicle manufacturer and the child restraint manufacturer. :)

Offhand, do we know of any child restraints that do not allow borrowing?

[Jeanum]

Evenflo and the Radian immediately pop into mind. There's a list in the LATCH manual and Crunchierthanthou posted it the other day if you do a quick search. ETA: It's in this thread: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=61502

[Unregistered]

Thank you everyone. Since a newer car with middle latch anchors is not in the works for us right now, does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a tighter seatbelt install with our True Fit in our 2001 Subaru Outback. Again, I don't know why, but we did okay with our infant seat, but maybe there are some tricks we could try with this one??

[April]

Going off on a bit of a bunny trail here....

When we are taling about "infant insert/height insert" in this thread and the OP's original thread, are we talking about ALL of the removable padding, or just the little side pieces. I read my manual over and over and I totally interprested "infant padding" to be the little side pieces. Riley is 35 lbs and I still have that bigger set of padding in. Help please!

[snowbird25ca]

Going off on a bit of a bunny trail here....

When we are taling about "infant insert/height insert" in this thread and the OP's original thread, are we talking about ALL of the removable padding, or just the little side pieces. I read my manual over and over and I totally interprested "infant padding" to be the little side pieces. Riley is 35 lbs and I still have that bigger set of padding in. Help please!

The infant insert is the big part that comes out. The head support can still be left on, but the big pad that sits underneath and goes behind the back as well has to come out at 22lbs.

You can see the bottom edge of the padding in this picture:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01328.jpg?t=1225428610

This is the seat without the padding:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01357.jpg

[April]

The infant insert is the big part that comes out. The head support can still be left on, but the big pad that sits underneath and goes behind the back as well has to come out at 22lbs.

You can see the bottom edge of the padding in this picture:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01328.jpg?t=1225428610

This is the seat without the padding:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01357.jpg

Thanks Trudy. So mine's okay right? It's like this:

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o258/asutton233/Car%20Seat%20Extravaganza/True%20Fit/IMG_0552.jpg

[snowbird25ca]

Thanks Trudy. So mine's okay right? It's like this:

Yep, you've pulled out the big padding, so looks fine to me. :)

[Unregistered]

Thanks for the clarification on the padding. I still have not been able to find in the manual where it says you have to take the bigger height insert out at 22 lbs, but I'll take you experts' word on that. DD has a few more pounds to go, but we'll take it out when she gets there. Actually, now that I think of it, I think we may have to take it out now unless we want to go ahead and put the headrest back on because with that padding in place, I think dd MAY be up to that red line.

[4BabyUnit]

I JUST registered, so I cannot post the three pics I just took yet, but I'm hoping you all might tell me if you THINK, based on my description, that I've done okay here: I finally got my TF install rf in the center position of my 2001Subaru Outback using the seatbelt. There doesn't seem to be an in between...it's either too loose or wayyy too tight..meaning I had to force the red lock offs over the yellow bars that hold the seat belt in place under the car seat's padding. I mean...I really had to force them...I was afraid they would break. I can just barely squeeze my hand between the car seat and the seat back to get my fingers on the lever that loosens the straps. The red line that serves a level is parallel to my car's bottom seat but not the ground. Thoughts on any of these things or any solutions to these problems.

[featherhead]

Thanks for the clarification on the padding. I still have not been able to find in the manual where it says you have to take the bigger height insert out at 22 lbs, but I'll take you experts' word on that. DD has a few more pounds to go, but we'll take it out when she gets there. Actually, now that I think of it, I think we may have to take it out now unless we want to go ahead and put the headrest back on because with that padding in place, I think dd MAY be up to that red line.

I don't have a manual handy, but I noticed on my niece's True Fit that there is a warning label on the insert that says do not use after 22 lbs (10kg).

[4BabyUnit]

I don't have a manual handy, but I noticed on my niece's True Fit that there is a warning label on the insert that says do not use after 22 lbs (10kg).
Wow! I must be completely blind. Well, everyone says the same thing anyway, so I will certainly remove it when she reaches the 22lb. mark.

I just had a tech check my True Fit install this past weekend, but I still have a couple of questions. If any of you experts have time to take a look, I'd greatly appreciate it, as we're headed on a 6 hour drive this weekend, and I want to feel more confident in this install than I do right now:

1. 1 of the techs recommended I move it out of the middle position because there are no LATCH anchors in that position. The other said either is safe, but that he would personally recommend installing it in the position farthest from the driver's seat. That same tech also noted that the headrest of the True Fit CANNOT be allowed to touch (at all) any portion of the seat in front of it, so our front passenger seat in our Outback would need to be moved forward to allow some space between dd's car seat and the front passenger seat. He said that it did not matter how MUCH space there was but that it, under no circumstances, should be touching it. What are your thoughts on this? Where do you think I should install it?

2. The first thing they noticed was the seat protector mat that I had put underneath the car seat. I hate to admit my ignorance, but I did not know that that was "no no." What they didn't tell me is why that is, and I didn't really want to question them...just thought I'd ask here. Obviously, I do not want to risk safety to keep my car looking good, but I DO want to sell this car next year, and I'd like to keep the seats protected if possible. Are there any of these protectors that are tested with car seats and approved for use? Ours is a non-slip Kidoppatomus (sp.?) brand.

3. They re-installed the car seat (using LATCH) behind the passenger seat. I later realized that they did not use the lock-offs on the webbing for the LATCH connectors. They apparently thought that the lock-offs were for use only with a seat belt install. To be honest, so did I. I later read that part of the manual and saw that the installation instructions DO direct you to use the lock offs with the LATCH connectors too (though very unclearly, I must say.) DO I need to use the lock offs with the LATCH connectors, and if so, HOW....it is really awkward to do so.

4. If anyone replies with the opinion that I should probably install this seat in the middle position, can you tell me if it is safe to force the lock-offs over the seatbelt webbing? When I DID have it in the middle position, in order to get the seat tight enough, I literally had to force them locked. I thought I was going to break the plastic.

Maybe I just need to go see another Tech, but of the three total that I've talked to, none of them is familiar with this particular seat or even seems experienced with putting these convertible seats rear-facing.

[4BabyUnit]

Shoot! One more comment/question:

The technicians did not measure the angle of recline? Should they have? If so, how can I estimate it...I'm not very good at just eyeballing it, so I have no idea. I feel it is acceptable right now, but I wouldn't mind (and I don't think dd would either) if it were a little more upright.

[northernmommy]

Wow! I must be completely blind. Well, everyone says the same thing anyway, so I will certainly remove it when she reaches the 22lb. mark.

I just had a tech check my True Fit install this past weekend, but I still have a couple of questions. If any of you experts have time to take a look, I'd greatly appreciate it, as we're headed on a 6 hour drive this weekend, and I want to feel more confident in this install than I do right now:

1. 1 of the techs recommended I move it out of the middle position because there are no LATCH anchors in that position. The other said either is safe, but that he would personally recommend installing it in the position farthest from the driver's seat. That same tech also noted that the headrest of the True Fit CANNOT be allowed to touch (at all) any portion of the seat in front of it, so our front passenger seat in our Outback would need to be moved forward to allow some space between dd's car seat and the front passenger seat. He said that it did not matter how MUCH space there was but that it, under no circumstances, should be touching it. What are your thoughts on this? Where do you think I should install it?It is safest to install the seat in the postion where you can achieve the best install. All things being equal, the middle of the back seat is safest, as it puts your child furthest away from any impact. LATCH is no safer than a seatbelt install, it's just supposed to make installs easier (not that it always does...) If you had a good install in the center, personally, I would leave her there...:twocents:

2. The first thing they noticed was the seat protector mat that I had put underneath the car seat. I hate to admit my ignorance, but I did not know that that was "no no." What they didn't tell me is why that is, and I didn't really want to question them...just thought I'd ask here. Obviously, I do not want to risk safety to keep my car looking good, but I DO want to sell this car next year, and I'd like to keep the seats protected if possible. Are there any of these protectors that are tested with car seats and approved for use? Ours is a non-slip Kidoppatomus (sp.?) brand.There shouldn't be anything between the carseat and the vehicle seat. Seat protectors can give a false sense of a good install. Any dents in your vehicle seats are usually gone within a couple days of removing the carseat.

3. They re-installed the car seat (using LATCH) behind the passenger seat. I later realized that they did not use the lock-offs on the webbing for the LATCH connectors. They apparently thought that the lock-offs were for use only with a seat belt install. To be honest, so did I. I later read that part of the manual and saw that the installation instructions DO direct you to use the lock offs with the LATCH connectors too (though very unclearly, I must say.) DO I need to use the lock offs with the LATCH connectors, and if so, HOW....it is really awkward to do so.I'll check on this when I have my manual handy, but I *believe* they want you to use the lockoffs all teh time.

4. If anyone replies with the opinion that I should probably install this seat in the middle position, can you tell me if it is safe to force the lock-offs over the seatbelt webbing? When I DID have it in the middle position, in order to get the seat tight enough, I literally had to force them locked. I thought I was going to break the plastic.The lockoffs on my TF's are all difficult to close as well, so as long as you can get them closed, I wouldn't worry about it.

Maybe I just need to go see another Tech, but of the three total that I've talked to, none of them is familiar with this particular seat or even seems experienced with putting these convertible seats rear-facing.If you post your general location, we may be able to find a tech on this board to help you out

[4BabyUnit]

Thanks northernmommy. I'm in Blowing Rock, NC
If you post your general location, we may be able to find a tech on this board to help you out

In reply, to your answers, the lock offs were SO hard to lock into place, that my husband even gave up on it. I finally, being the more hard-headed of the two of us, used a tool handle to push down on the yellow bar part so that I could get it far enough down for the red lock to go over. The first time I tried this, it slipped, and nearly got a black eye.

I must say, even though, in my gut, I feel like it's best to have the seat in the middle, I was relieved to hear him suggest that he felt better having the seat as far away from the driver's seat as possible. I am in the car by myself with her every day for a 30 minute commute each way, and I canNOT reach her at all when she is in the middle because of the headrest on the TF. I am not comfortable with that.

[northernmommy]

Thanks northernmommy. I'm in Blowing Rock, NC Maybe start a seperate thread looking for a tech from your area.


In reply, to your answers, the lock offs were SO hard to lock into place, that my husband even gave up on it. I finally, being the more hard-headed of the two of us, used a tool handle to push down on the yellow bar part so that I could get it far enough down for the red lock to go over. The first time I tried this, it slipped, and nearly got a black eye. Okay, well if you had to use a tool, then that changes things! Try not having the belt super tight...sometimes they are impossible to lock if you have teh belt super tight to start with. Let a tiny bit of slack out and try again...it may help.

I must say, even though, in my gut, I feel like it's best to have the seat in the middle, I was relieved to hear him suggest that he felt better having the seat as far away from the driver's seat as possible. I am in the car by myself with her every day for a 30 minute commute each way, and I canNOT reach her at all when she is in the middle because of the headrest on the TF. I am not comfortable with that.She will still be safe in a properly installed seat in the outboard position, just safer in the middle. It's a parental decision you'll have to make, but if you're going to be distracted by trying to reach her if she's in the middle, it may actually be safer to have her on the side. Also, if you paralell (no matter how I type that, it doesn't look right!) park often, you may want to consider that, as it's best not to be getting her out in traffic:twocents:

[4BabyUnit]

Thank you for your help. With her behind the passenger seat, I wouldn't be getting her out in traffic, so that's good, but still wonder about where to put it. May use it in middle position on long trips when I have my husband with me and put it behind passenger seat for daily commutes.

Can someone tell me if the car seat is allowed to touch the back of the seat in front of it? Right now, it is not, but it seems like I've seen some pictures on here where they ARE...or maybe they just looked that way.

She will still be safe in a properly installed seat in the outboard position, just safer in the middle. It's a parental decision you'll have to make, but if you're going to be distracted by trying to reach her if she's in the middle, it may actually be safer to have her on the side. Also, if you paralell (no matter how I type that, it doesn't look right!) park often, you may want to consider that, as it's best not to be getting her out in traffic:twocents:

[northernmommy]

Sorry, forgot to answer that one for you!

If I recall correctly, the carseat cannot touch the back of the seat when the headrest is not in use. It can touch the seat when the headrest is added.

[4BabyUnit]

See that just makes me wonder...the technicians I took the seat too told me that this rule was the same regardless of the car seat or car and that they should NOT touch the seat at all....ughhh.

Sorry, forgot to answer that one for you!

If I recall correctly, the carseat cannot touch the back of the seat when the headrest is not in use. It can touch the seat when the headrest is added.

[northernmommy]

See that just makes me wonder...the technicians I took the seat too told me that this rule was the same regardless of the car seat or car and that they should NOT touch the seat at all....ughhh.

The techs you saw are mistaken, as some seats even allow bracing (provided your vehicle allows it). They may be confused because there are a few seats out there that do not allow touching, but not many.

[4BabyUnit]

Thank you for all of the information northernmommy. I really appreciate it.

The techs you saw are mistaken, as some seats even allow bracing (provided your vehicle allows it). They may be confused because there are a few seats out there that do not allow touching, but not many.

[northernmommy]

Here is the thread discussing this, if you scroll way down , you will see a post written in blue quoting the manufacturer on this issue
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=54380 :thumbsup:

Hope that helps!

[4BabyUnit]

Good grief...I'm wondering if I should just stop reading at this point. The very last part of the manufacturer's quote just confused the ____out of me! Ughhh. Sometimes I sure wish things could be more cut and dry. I don't even know HOW to measure the angle of this install.


Here is the thread discussing this, if you scroll way down , you will see a post written in blue quoting the manufacturer on this issue
http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=54380 :thumbsup:

Hope that helps!

[northernmommy]

Sorry! I'm not trying to confuse you, honest! Don't sweat the exact angle of your install...He's just saying that you shouldn't have the front seat pushed up so close to the carseat that it is pushing the carseat to be even more reclined.