School bus vs gasoline tanker (no fatalities)

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

You would think that a school bus vs a gasoline tanker would be a pretty ugly scene. You would think some kids on the bus would be killed.

Apparently not when those kids are restrained. :thumbsup:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4642527

Hopefully the bus driver will recover quickly.

[ketchupqueen]

That's awesome that none were hurt, and thank goodness that district had and that bus driver enforced wearing of the harnesses for all those preschool kids! It could have been really ugly otherwise.

[at0micgirl]

You would think that a school bus vs a gasoline tanker would be a pretty ugly scene. You would think some kids on the bus would be killed.

Apparently not when those kids are restrained. :thumbsup:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4642527

Hopefully the bus driver will recover quickly.

Thanks for sharing this. I am so glad all those kids are alright. I hope the rest get better soon. And I hope more people get the message that kids need to be restrained, even in big vehicles!

I loved that they showed the cartoon images of bus safety that those kids were exposed to - it's great to see responsible adults caring for kids! =)

[Mommypooh]

now I am second guessing my daughters trial run on her school bus, I am not happy they wouldn't let me put a harness on the bus and I don't want her to ride it now. Okay off to cry.

[lovinwaves]

That story just gave me goosebumps. My son(just turned 3yrs old) just started riding our Public School Systems bus in an integrated 5-point harness. You can see pictures here: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=59857&highlight=camden

Pretty amazing story! :thumbsup:

[SingleMomTo2Girls]

The original article has now been extensively updated, including a lot of pictures. When I initially posted it was just a quick summary.

There is also now this article about belts on buses: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4647032

[HEVY]

That's why I'm driving my baby to her trip. No 5-point harnesses on our buses.

[sunnyflower417]

School buses are the safest mode of transportation out there. There are specific reasons the seats are so close together, and the seat backs are so high. It's call compartmentalization. I am a school bus driver and I felt exactly how some of you felt but I learned about how a bus is supposed to protect them. I feel much safer on the bus than I do in my car.

[chickabiddy]

Those were preschool-aged children. Preschool-aged children SHOULD be restrained on busses.

SCHOOL-AGED CHILDREN ARE SAFER UNBELTED ON BUSSES THAN IN 5-POINT HARNESSES IN CARS!!! (sorry for going crazy caps lady)

[BookMama]

I agree with Sunnyflower and Chickabiddy. Preschoolers should be restrained in 5-point harnesses on school buses, but school-aged children are safer unbelted due to compartmentalization.

There have been several recent threads on this topic, with lots of great info and links.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=763018#post763018

[SGTex]

Thanks for posting that and to whoever posted the article/video in that thread. My DS has a field trip coming up soon that I've been VERY hesitant to send him on, he's 7 and will be bused for apx 45 min drive on the expressway. I feel better about him going now and about letting my DD ride the bus in the fall too!

[lovinwaves]

NHTSA recommends that any "preschooler" be harnessed when riding on a school bus. They define a preschooler as any child that is under 50lbs.

Even though my child will technically be in kindergarten and no longer a preschooler, she will still need to be harnessed on the bus to be considered safe. She is only 30-32lbs.

[joolsplus3]

That's why I'm driving my baby to her trip. No 5-point harnesses on our buses.

A couple extra feet of polyester webbing (ie, harnesses, they are not magical protection devices imbued with the power to protect against all injury :o) is not what what's the safety factor here. School buses are huge (visible and more likely to 'win' in a crash) and safe. It's possible 'our' well restrained kids in our safely maintained cars with our sober selves driving them are about as safe as being in a school bus, but school buses are exceptionally safe and there's no reason to fear them. Just teach your kid to sit still in their seat and they'll be fine :thumbsup:

[atsuydam]

I agree with Sunnyflower and Chickabiddy. Preschoolers should be restrained in 5-point harnesses on school buses, but school-aged children are safer unbelted due to compartmentalization.

There have been several recent threads on this topic, with lots of great info and links.

http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?p=763018#post763018

This is why I am glad out lap/shoulder belt bill FAILED in Colorado. DD1 is well over 50 lbs but will not fit well in a seat belt yet.

DD2 will be driven to school until she hits 50 lbs.

I am VERY happy all those preschoolers were in a five point! If my district would reconsider that I would be ecstatic!

[joolsplus3]

Actually...I'd love buses to have lap/shoulderbelts. The it wouldn't be a safety hazard in bus seats that are proportioned to fit school-age children well...lap/shoulderbelts are only a problem to kids in adult sized vehicle seats. It's lap-only belts in buses that are a problem, as they allow the head to fly forward and strike the seatbacks, rather than allowing the body to hit the seatback all at one time in compartmentalization, and spread the forces out over the whole body rather than just the head (and also it risks seatbelt syndrome from the lapbelt cutting into the abdomen).

[BookMama]

I wouldn't be against lap/shoulder belts in school buses if they were adjustable to fit every child, and if the bus driver/monitors could ensure that every child wears a seat belt. I don't want my child injured because another child is unrestrained. (Injured by an unrestrained child who becomes a projectile, or injured by the force of an unrestrained child who hits the back of the seat that my child is strapped to.) :twocents:

[atsuydam]

I wouldn't be against lap/shoulder belts in school buses if they were adjustable to fit every child, and if the bus driver/monitors could ensure that every child wears a seat belt. I don't want my child injured because another child is unrestrained. (Injured by an unrestrained child who becomes a projectile, or injured by the force of an unrestrained child who hits the back of the seat that my child is strapped to.) :twocents:

Ditto, but IRL it's just not going to happen. Maybe when they are young but could a picture a bus load of middle school students with seat belts? And our buses rarely have a monitor on board, it is just the driver. I remember how awful my bus rides in school were with out seat belts (in regards to how the kids acted). In that bus they would have been weapons. Then you add in who is going to adjust them to go from the 175 lbs foot ball player that rode in the bus from game last night to the 50 lb first grader this morning? Then you add the number of families that are NOT teaching their kids proper car safety, they are not going to sit well in them...

I could go on and on and on... :whistle:

[sunnyflower417]

I apologize, I didn't realize they were pre-school kids. We harness them until they turn 4 in our district.

[keri1292]

Poor bus driver...81 years old and it sounds like it was his first bus run. :(

Glad everyone is alive and hope the adults heal quickly.

[mfrasier]

I remember that "webbing and padding" you are talking having your whole body hit against as being 'safe'. The metal frame bars of the seat in front were totally coming through. They did not have padding in the back just something like a piece ply wood. I remember getting a huge welt on my head in high school when our bus stopped suddenly much less in a major crash. Besides most people are turned to the side to talk to their friends than actually sitting forward. My legs were to long to be comfortable sitting forward after my 6th grade year. Thankfully, my dad started to drive me to school and then we moved. But, I would definitely check out how old the bus is before putting my kid at any age on it. This was 6/7 years ago but since I moved back I have seen my old bus still picking kids up

[MonsterMom6]

NHTSA recommends that any "preschooler" be harnessed when riding on a school bus. They define a preschooler as any child that is under 50lbs.

Even though my child will technically be in kindergarten and no longer a preschooler, she will still need to be harnessed on the bus to be considered safe. She is only 30-32lbs.

Wow, I'd say most of the Kindy's on our buses should be harnessed. My 4 only weigh 35#, 40#, 43#, and 46# and they are among the oldest. Judging from the looks of the others, I think most would be under 50#.

I rode on the bus on a field trip with 2 classes of Kindys. YIKES, they needed so many reminders to sit back, legs in, etc.

Lovinwaves, could you point me to a link to that recommendation???? ALL of our K students are bussed, regardless of how close they live to the school. Even the ones that live across the street from the school get on a bus.

[lovinwaves]

Lovinwaves, could you point me to a link to that recommendation???? ALL of our K students are bussed, regardless of how close they live to the school. Even the ones that live across the street from the school get on a bus.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/buses/Guide1999/prekfinal.htm

http://www2.nsc.org/library/facts/scbusinf.htm

[CelticLabyrinth]

I would never send a child in a car when there was a school bus available. The safety difference is just too profound :twocents: .

[ketchupqueen]

I would never send a child in a car when there was a school bus available. The safety difference is just too profound :twocents: .

In the case of a child under 50 lbs. and under the height needed for compartmentalization to be safe? On a bus with no harnesses? I'd choose the car.

I remember being taught how to "brace" in case we had time/warning before a crash in elementary school. (We only rode buses for field trips.)

[joolsplus3]

Ditto, but IRL it's just not going to happen. Maybe when they are young but could a picture a bus load of middle school students with seat belts? And our buses rarely have a monitor on board, it is just the driver. I remember how awful my bus rides in school were with out seat belts (in regards to how the kids acted). In that bus they would have been weapons. Then you add in who is going to adjust them to go from the 175 lbs foot ball player that rode in the bus from game last night to the 50 lb first grader this morning? Then you add the number of families that are NOT teaching their kids proper car safety, they are not going to sit well in them...

I could go on and on and on... :whistle:

I've heard that 'argument' about how seatbelts would just become weapons. I really just don't think it's going to happen. Kids know what seatbelts are for these days, they wonder why they DON'T have them on buses, I just don't think they are going to be whipping latchplates around and strangling other kids with them. I know I won't convince you, so I won't try, but I just can't imagine it (and yes, I rode plenty of buses in public school, I remember :eek:)

[atsuydam]

I've heard that 'argument' about how seatbelts would just become weapons. I really just don't think it's going to happen. Kids know what seatbelts are for these days, they wonder why they DON'T have them on buses, I just don't think they are going to be whipping latchplates around and strangling other kids with them. I know I won't convince you, so I won't try, but I just can't imagine it (and yes, I rode plenty of buses in public school, I remember :eek:)


My biggest fears with it are selfish, I'll admit. I wanted to know who was going to make sure my daughter's belt was adjusted properly, if it COULD be adjusted properly and I found nothing but evidence that they she was safer without. I realize there is little studying done. Without info to support the safer in a bus with seat belt, and a plan for implementing, my mind goes for all the way they are safer with out (that, and my brothers DID whip each other with the latch plates growing up).

So, PLEASE, convince me! This is in no way sarcastic. I came on here earlier asking about this when the bill was proposed. Tell me some success stories! Tell me how the seat belts adjust (my biggest worry, those seat backs are so high that I imagine the belts coming from the top and just being so high on the child they all put them behind their backs!) Tell me they do make sure all the kids use the seat belts. Do the schools bother with anything for smaller grade schoolers? Etc.

My mind is open and does change for a persuasive argument :D

[Murphy's Law]

NHTSA recommends that any "preschooler" be harnessed when riding on a school bus. They define a preschooler as any child that is under 50lbs.

Even though my child will technically be in kindergarten and no longer a preschooler, she will still need to be harnessed on the bus to be considered safe. She is only 30-32lbs.

I've been wondering about this. My dd is 4 and has one more year of Pre-K (I will drive her). So in about 17 months she will be in Kindergarten and I assumed I'd put her on the bus. But I highly doubt she'll be 50 pounds by then, I'm not even sure she'll be 40. She gains so slowly. She is just 34/35 now at 4y3m. So if she's under 50, she'd be safer if I drove her? She's a regular ed student who (I'm almost sure) won't be entitled to restraints on the bus as she's not on an IEP that says that.

Would you guys still drive her til she hits 50?

[BookMama]

Would you guys still drive her til she hits 50?

For me, it would depend on how heavy she is and whether she can sit still on the bus. My DS was about 40 lbs in kindergarten and rode the bus to the district's after-school care four days a week. I felt comfortable with that for several reasons: I knew he could stay seated properly (we talked about it a lot); there were only a handful of kids who rode that particular route, so not a lot of distraction for him; and it was a very short trip - only 5-10 minutes - on low-traffic roads (so, no gasoline tankers to worry about).

Now that he's 8 (tomorrow!) and 48 lbs., I feel very comfortable letting him ride the bus for field trips. Unfortunately, since he goes to a charter school, there is no bus to/from school - DD and I drive a total of 28 miles per day to pick him up/drop him off, and I'd much rather be able to put him on the bus than subject both kids to that much car driving.

[zeo2ski]

I've heard that 'argument' about how seatbelts would just become weapons. I really just don't think it's going to happen. Kids know what seatbelts are for these days, they wonder why they DON'T have them on buses, I just don't think they are going to be whipping latchplates around and strangling other kids with them. I know I won't convince you, so I won't try, but I just can't imagine it (and yes, I rode plenty of buses in public school, I remember :eek:)

In high school (late 90's-02) our busses had lap belts which we were not allowed to use and there was a lot of "stop playing with the seat belts" but I never heard of any one getting hurt. I do remember everyone thinking it was stupid to not be able to wear seat belts when they were right there--of course we didn't know anything about l/s vs lap vs compartmentalization, but we knew seat belts are good. If they did put l/s belts on busses, sure there'd be a break in period but then it would become the norm and I doubt there would be that many problems.

[chickabiddy]

My daughter was 42 pounds when she started kindergarten, and she rode the bus. I am personally scared of dropoff/pickup lines -- they seem like crashes waiting to happen.

[joolsplus3]

My biggest fears with it are selfish, I'll admit. I wanted to know who was going to make sure my daughter's belt was adjusted properly, if it COULD be adjusted properly and I found nothing but evidence that they she was safer without. I realize there is little studying done. Without info to support the safer in a bus with seat belt, and a plan for implementing, my mind goes for all the way they are safer with out (that, and my brothers DID whip each other with the latch plates growing up).

So, PLEASE, convince me! This is in no way sarcastic. I came on here earlier asking about this when the bill was proposed. Tell me some success stories! Tell me how the seat belts adjust (my biggest worry, those seat backs are so high that I imagine the belts coming from the top and just being so high on the child they all put them behind their backs!) Tell me they do make sure all the kids use the seat belts. Do the schools bother with anything for smaller grade schoolers? Etc.

My mind is open and does change for a persuasive argument :D

LOL, well, alright then... check out what bus seatbelts look like nowadays.. http://www.safeguardseat.com/bus/products_flex.htm :love: (no, the lapbelts aren't ideally low on all the kids, but remember the odds of a bus actually being in a crash are near zero, and the fit isn't 'too' bad, as long as the upper body belt is worn, the odds of abdominal injury should be infintisimal)

[mygirlkat74]

As a former bus driver, whom bus held over 60 kids at one time to school and to home. I would rather not have seat belts. One, if there is a fire on a bus. You only have a window of 3 minutes to get the kids out of the bus before it is enveloped in flames. Think of getting 60 + kids out of seat belts in a hurry. It can't happen. We practiced escape out of the bus 6 times a year. If your bus failed to get the kids out in that 3 minutes. Then you had to keep practicing every morning till it worked.

I have seen bus fires. I have seen bus accidents. I worked for The school district where the one driver had an accident a few years back because it was found she used drugs. A few kids got hurt. No one died. Plus then two years later a county near us had a child die just because some stupid truck driver was speeding on a country road and a poll came out from his truck, came through the glass window and struck a child in the head. Even if there was seat belts that boy would have still died.