Swedish Car seat Experts

[finn]

Can someone explain to me why it is ok for my sons head to be above the car seat shell please? I know that he doesnt grow out of it until the tips of his ears are inline with the shell, I was just wondering what happens to the top of his head that is above the shell in a crash.

He is in a Brio Zento & I was wondering if this is a small seat compared to other Swedish seats? He is 21 months old, 87cm (34inches) tall and weighs 12kg (26 pounds) and his head is about an 2.5cm (an inch) from the top of the seat, so I am wondering if he isnt going to grow much in the torso between now and 4 which I really hope to get him rear facing too, of if I need to think about buying a taller seat.

Thanks :)

[Adventuredad]

Hi there,

I'm not an expert but I'm Swedish..... It's a very good question you asked. This "rule" is common with the Swedish seats. The head is allowed to stick up slightly car seat shell. I didn't have a good answer so I called a friend or two at Britax here for their view. I don't think they had a good answer either.

The seats have ben tested this way which is one important aspect. They mentioned that US seats are not tested this way. I have not gotten this confirmed though. We use the "tip of the ears" but sometimes we're more careful. As you might know, front seat installs are very common over here. They are safe and also recommended for rfing children. But when larger children sit rfing in the front she/he is not that far from the windshield. This is no problem but when the head starts ticking up above the seat shell I keep a close eye on things. I think most parents prefer to move their kids into a good BPB in these cases but that's fortunately around age 4+.

It's fine to have the tip of the head above the seat shell but it's definitely not alright to have the whole head sticking up. That would be extremely dangerous.

All kids are different but I;ll compare with my son. He's quite tall for his age so I had to turn him at just above 4 years. t He was then about 44 inches and his head was sicking up above the seat shell. He was in a Britax Hi-Way. The two seats with the highest back are Britax Two-Way and Multi Tech. I believe the Zento is a bit shorter but I don't have any measurements.

It's impossible to say when he will grow out if the seat since the little ones row so differently. If you do need help in getting another seat I'll be glad to help you out (I'm in Stockholm, Sweden)

[snowbird25ca]

I've been thinking about this a little bit, and here's my twocents for what it's worth. (Though I am NOT a swedish car seat expert. ;))

Rf'ing seats in north america do not have foot props. In order to pass standards, they cannot rotate further than 70* from verticle. A child who is close to the limits of the seat and whose head is above the shell, would be at risk of ramping right up and way out of the shell and hitting his/her head on the vehicle interior.

This is somewhat mitigated in Swedish seats though because they use a foot prop. The foot prop greatly reduces downward rotation, so a child ramping up the seat either isn't going to happen or else won't happen to the same degree.

It's not so much the head being above that's a risk - it's the risk of the head impacting the interior of the vehicle, and due to carseat design in North America, using a seat with the head above the shell puts kids at a much greater risk of this happening.

As for why it would be limited to tips of the ears, that makes sense - it's the same reason why kids outgrow ff'ing seats at the same height, and why adults are supposed to adjust their headrests so that it comes at least as high as the tops of the ears - they need the support from the tops of the ears down in order to protect the most vulnerable part of the skull & brain, and to provide whiplash protection.

So I guess to summarize my ramblings, the limits are likely different in swedish seats because there isn't the same risk of a child ramping (sliding,) up higher in the seat in a collision and striking the vehicle interior. And this would be due to the structural design of the seat. :)

So I don't think there's any easy answer, but I'd be comfortable trusting the manufacturer's recommendations just given that we know the way swedish seats behave in a collision is different than north american seats - at least in terms of the extremes of movement being greatly reduced.

Just my educated guess anyways. :thumbsup:

(And for those of you who are history buffs, at one point many years ago Britax used to have the same rule with their North American convertibles, but over the years have moved to match what the rest of the industry does here - progressing from tips of ears, to top of head even with shell, to 1" of hard shell above head. Britax also had the straps at or above when rf'ing rule at one time too - again the same as Europe, but have since moved to at or below for rf'ing.)

[Adventuredad]

Interesting thoughts:thumbsup: Sounds very reasonable to me although the "tip of the ears" also applied to seats without a foot prop. Like the older Britax "Nordic" Freeway which was similar to the newer Hi-Way.

I was expecting a better explanation from Birtax but they really didn't have much to say about this.

[codex57]

I'm certainly no expert, but just from an educated guess standpoint:

Like snowbird said, we're mainly concerned about supporting the tip of the ears down. Basically, you want to make sure the head is still supported by the seat. Tip of the ears is a good estimate since every kid's head is shaped differently. You're basically trying to make sure the kid's head is supported, and tip of the ears should correlate roughly to the center of teh rounded part of the back of the head. Cover that and you should be good.

Can't go purely by height of the kid cuz some kids have long legs so they might have plenty of headroom but be beyond the artificial height limit.

[finn]

Thank you for your answers, i feel much better now keeping him in this seat until his ear tips are in line with the shell. Hopefully he wont get too much taller in the next year lol

As much as I would love to get a new seat off you adventuredad my finances dont quite stretch that far :( I think I will just get him a good harnessed/booster combo (I am considering the young sport which will set me back $700) for when he grows out of the Brio.

[minismom]

Hey adventuredad, would you care to measure the seat shell of the Britaxes you have? I can measure my zento to compare. I'm wondering if I wont get much more RFing time with it vs the US seats, cause dd's issue is height for sure, not weight!

[finn]

If someone could measure a multi tech as well that would be great :)

[lenats31]

Meassured the Multitech about 7-8 months ago. height meassurement is:

61-62 cm. as far as I can remember. This is from middle of the seat INSIDE to the top of the headwings. I have not meassured the the actual shell from buttom to the top of headwings in the top slot. Just where the child sits.

1" = 2,54 cm.

As far as I can recall, the inside of The Britax Regent is 71 cm.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f223/lenats31/Britax%20Multi-Tech%20car%20Seat/Marts2008002-1.jpg

Lena

[finn]

Thanks lenats31, I measured my Zento its 57cm (22 inches) so the Multi Tech isn't that much bigger. It looks a lot bigger than the Zento all of the pictures that I have seen of it.

[lenats31]

Thanks lenats31, I measured my Zento its 57cm (22 inches) so the Multi Tech isn't that much bigger. It looks a lot bigger than the Zento all of the pictures that I have seen of it.

No it isn´t much. I tried DD in the Zento. She was 110 cm tall (43"). She was still in the second highest slot in the BMT. But she was outgrowing the Zento.

It is just a few cm. But 4-5 cm. usually means at least one more year RFing.

Now she is 112½ and in the highest slot.. She would have outgrown the Zento at this point.

Lena

[finn]

Thanks Lena :)

I'm going to get adventuredad to send me a multi tech yay :) I did think of turning him forward facing when he outgrew the Zento but I just cant do it.

[delgirrrl]

Thanks Lena :)

I'm going to get adventuredad to send me a multi tech yay :) I did think of turning him forward facing when he outgrew the Zento but I just cant do it.


Good on you, yay! I'm sure you're going to LOVE the seat. Oh, and I can recommend his service :D

Although you've already decided, for anyone else from New Zealand or Australia interested in size comparisons, these pics show it side by side with a Safe n Sound Meridian AHR (set up for FF). AHR is on second headrest position, and the MT on the lowest setting. As you see, the actual size of the 'whole seat' is much the same, it's just that the MT doesn't take up all that space with a base.

I measured 62 cm to the top of the headrest on the top setting for the MT.

[finn]

Thanks Del, for the pictures, I just sold my AHR as Isaac is just over 12kg now so we can no longer use it rear facing. It is nice to see a comparison though :)

[lil96]

Is that rule of thumb true for just rfing seats or for infant carriers too? People have told me to keep her in her carrier until the ears are at the top. I am so confused :P The US version of my seat says 30", but I can't seem to find a height limit on ECE version.

[Adventuredad]

Hey adventuredad, would you care to measure the seat shell of the Britaxes you have? I can measure my zento to compare. I'm wondering if I wont get much more RFing time with it vs the US seats, cause dd's issue is height for sure, not weight!

I will measure all the Swedish seats as I get back on Sunday. Currently in Turkey playing the World Championships in tennis.

Thanks for posting all the great pictures!!

[finn]

Here is Isaac in his Zento :)

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/rabarts/DSC09687.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c65/rabarts/DSC09685.jpg

When we bought it in April he was on the 2nd set of slots now he is on the top slots. These photos were taken a month ago :) He is 20 months old in the photos.