7th baby on the way...now what??

[Unregistered]

Help me sort out my options. We live in the mountains where 4wd is a necessity just to get up our driveway, and we love our ford excursion, but it only has seats for 8. 2 buckets in front, split bench for 3 in 2nd row (shoulder belts on outside seats, lap only in center) and 3 belts in 3rd row (shoulder belts outside, lap in center.) When new baby arrives in November, what are our options? Our other kids at that time will be 13, 11, 8, 7, 3, and 21 months.

We're thinking of installing a rear-facing fourth row seat in the cargo area in the back. (something like this one: http://www.littlepassengerseats.com/ford_excursion.htm) I don't know which children/carseat(s)/booster(s) could be placed in this seat, and I worry about it being rear facing, but I like that it would add 2 more shoulder belts, and there is a head-support option available.

Our only other option would be to replace the center console between the two front bucket seats with a folding console seat. (like this one: http://www.guytoys.net/console/truck_center_consoles.htm) I hate the idea of this, though, because my 13-year old is tiny for her age, and, in my opinion, should still not be in the front seat.

I'm not crazy about either of these choices, but we have to figure out some way to get all nine of us into a vehicle together. Selling the current vehicle and replacing it is simply not financially possible right now. Not to mention that I don't know whether there is any other 4wd vehicle that seats nine that would be any safer anyway...

HELP! I'm so frustrated! Any advice?

[Unregistered]

Hmm, don't have a whole lot of advice to offer. But any after market seat is not a safe option :( No child restraints can ever be installed on anything but a forward facing seat. And even for children not in carseats/booster seats, it's not safe :(

[Unregistered]

Wanted to add: I see it says they come with lap belts. Lap belts are VERY unsafe!! Shoulder belts should be used at all times for children (and adults!)

[Unregistered]

Yes, I understand that lap belts are less safe than shoulder belts. But they are safe-er than NO belt with NO restraint for one passenger, which will be my only choice if I don't install some kind of after-market product. So I know I'm just trying to sort out the best of several admittedly less-than-ideal choices. Silly me for thinking I could get help on this forum...

[Tara]

options I see are..
the front seat console/seat swap
new vehicle - I believe the Suburban has a front row bench option
look into having a 12 passenger van converted to 4wd It's rare that you'd find one out for sale, you have to contact the company that does these conversions (I'll ask dh who that is as I don't recall at the moment) but that CAN be done, safely I don't know about the price for converting though and/or if there are requirements on the year of vehicle they will convert. No telling what kind of stipulations *could* come up, ya know? ;) We've thought of that ourselves as we're 4wd fans :) but need room too.

I wouldn't do the after market rear facing seat. As PP said, car seats cannot be used there, and ya wouldn't really want anyone else there anywho.

[Unregistered]

Tara, thanks for your thoughts. I've thought of a suburban, too, but it (or any new vehicle) would have to wait for a pretty dramatic change in finances.

I've been leaning towards the rear facing seat because it can be ordered with 2 shoulder belts and head supports, meaning maybe my 11- and 8-yos could sit there. Then I could do shoulder belts in all four remaining outboard positions, with the new baby rear-facing using the center lap belt in the center row?

I'm very nervous about having my teeny-tiny 13 year old in the front! Help me understand why this would be better...

[Tara]

finding some links for you on the van conversion

4x4 vans for sale (http://www.megspace.com/cars/thundersonlinegarage/4x4vans4sale.html)

list of garages/companies that do conversions (http://www.megspace.com/cars/thundersonlinegarage/links.html#4x4van) You can bring any good condition van in for this conversion. But I think Quigleys only does new/ordered vans (?)

HTH
I feel your pain...hard for big families to keep their 4wd

[Tara]

well, if you do not have airbags you could put a carseat up there
we know we don't prefer to have kids up front, but it *might* be the 'lesser of two evils' if your dd is that smalll and you're concerned

I understand about the selling thing too...
but, no way you could get out of the excursion w/o losing much? get a used van? think you could get by w/2wd for a little while? save up to do the conversion?

Otherwise...maybe you'll have to be a 2 vehicle/divided family for a while *shrug*

How often do you ALL travel somewhere? When is #7 due? Do you have a second vehicle?

[Tara]

oh yeah...why the 11 and 8 yo in the rear (if you did that)?
and I see you mentioned #7 due in Nov, sorry ;)

[Unregistered]

well, if you do not have airbags you could put a carseat up there
we know we don't prefer to have kids up front, but it *might* be the 'lesser of two evils' if your dd is that smalll and you're concerned

I understand about the selling thing too...
but, no way you could get out of the excursion w/o losing much? get a used van? think you could get by w/2wd for a little while? save up to do the conversion?

Otherwise...maybe you'll have to be a 2 vehicle/divided family for a while *shrug*

How often do you ALL travel somewhere? When is #7 due? Do you have a second vehicle?

1. Yes, there are dual airbags in front.
2. Used van w/ 4wd conversion might be an option. But in our area, a local gov't agency just announced that they are getting rid of all their 12- and 15-passenger vans because of all the fatalities (!) so I'm really unconvinced that it would be any safer than the excursion. And I'd hate to take a big $ hit just to swap bad for worse or even bad for bad...
3. We could do 2wd for a summer, but no longer.
4. The truth is we usually only all go together at three times: once a week to church (which would be no big deal for us to take 2 cars), about once a month to in-laws (a 1.5 hour drive, so we'd prefer not to be separated, but it is do-able) and 2-3 1600 mile drives per year back to my parents house. For which we definitely don't want to be split up...well, okay, by the end of the drive we NEED to be split up, but we don't want to take 2 vehicles b/c of driver fatigue. (DH & I split up the driving and wouldn't want to have to caravan.)

[Unregistered]

oh yeah...why the 11 and 8 yo in the rear (if you did that)?
and I see you mentioned #7 due in Nov, sorry ;)

Just thinking of which kids would be most comfortable back there. The seat appears to be "short" (like the 3rd row seat) so adults or kids with longer legs would have their knees by their ears. Plus my 13, 11, and 8 year olds are the only ones who are legally big enough to ride without a booster seat. The 13 year old fights with everyone (aaarrrggghhh...teenagers...I hear my woes are only beginning) so keeping her in the middle row where I can handle complaints about her more easily is desirable. (Not necessary, but helpful...)

[Unregistered]

The 13 year old fights with everyone (aaarrrggghhh...teenagers...I hear my woes are only beginning) so keeping her in the middle row where I can handle complaints about her more easily is desirable. (Not necessary, but helpful...)

Maybe I should just leave her at home all the time!

[Tara]

LOL There ya go...you found the loophole. ;)

Well, maybe for the time being you could eek by, look into selling the Excursion and getting a 12 pass van. And maybe just maybe God will also bless you financially and get it all pulled together to convert the van :)

Hey, it's not a 'selfish vain prayer request' or anything.

Oh, and in the meantime..I think I'd be working on/redirecting the 13 yo. At that age and especially for a girl, she should be much more of a help than a 'burden' (I know you didn't say that about her and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything like that...I know it's not "that" bad...just for the sake of argument I guess you could say, that was my word choice)
If not, then yeah, leave her at home to make room for the baby LMHO

*juuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding people, I promise teehee
though I'm tempted to do the same with my 9 yr old at times, or even more so, my 4.5 yr old..heck, they all have their days

[Unregistered]

So take two cars everywhere for now. It doesn't sound like it would be a huge deal. And for the long trips, rent a van.

[Unregistered]

So take two cars everywhere for now. It doesn't sound like it would be a huge deal. And for the long trips, rent a van.

This sounds like the best idea I've heard so far!

[LEAW]

I'd do the front seat conversion and have them dismantle the passenger airbag. Put any RF baby/toddler in the front seat.

I don't think you can put a car seat on the console? You'd have to take the chance of you/dh riding there in a lap belt then? IF you can put a car seat there, then maybe RF baby in the middle, and FF bigger kid in the passenger side.

Teen in the middle row, with whatever little kids need the most help - she can be in charge of snacks on long trips, handing out crayons, etc. and can learn to buckle them in. Put her in a booster on one side, toddler in the middle RF, bigger kid FF on the other side.

Bigger/middle kids in the back row, with boosters or seatbelts as is appropriate, car seat in the middle again because it's a lap belt.

Good luck!

[Dsunny1]

I was also going to say the rent a van idea for long trips, and take two cars for the short ones till you can save up enough to get the conversion.

[CPSDarren]

It's smaller than what you have, but a used Expedition can be found in a 9-passenger, 4WD version. I believe models as far back as 2003 have stability control as an option. They also have LATCH. With the front bench seat option, you can seat 9 passengers though it will be a bit crowded.

[Unregistered]

Just a question - If rear facing is so much safer, why are these seats unsafe - Especially if you can order shoulderbelts for them?

[papooses]

I might've lost track & I'm sorry if I did.... But, I think you're asking about add on vehicle RF seats :confused: If so then at least part of the reason it's not safe to install carseats on them is that the carseat manufacturers never allow it -- carseats are not crash tested in this way so we don't know exactly how they might fail to provide optimal safety in RF vehicle seats :o So long as the vehicle driver's manual says bigger passengers can ride RF in those seats then that's OK -- just always follow both the vehicle & carseat manuals :) Since the "Little Passengers" seats are an add on, although they meet the federal safety standards on their own, they're not tested in the vehicle -- the cargo space which they'd be installed in could be a crumple zone! Unless Ford OK's these for you & a dealer will install, I wouldn't use it...

I'd also just try to take 2 vehicles when possible, look into the 9 passenger vehicle Darren mentioned & rent a larger van when necessary.

[CPSDarren]

Incidentally, like most any aftermarket automobile product, there are no federal safety standards that apply specifically to add-on vehicle seats. That means there is no regulation or independent testing of these products whatosever. Manufacturers can and do claim they test to the same criteria as the federal standards require of seats installed by vehicle manufacturers, of course. It's possible they are very safe or not so safe, it all depends how much you trust the aftermarket company. As you said, there is also the issue of installing such a seat where it was not intended by the vehicle manufacturer.

For the previous poster, another example is the rear-facing seats provided by Ford and Volvo in some of their wagons. These seats are safe for occupants within the height and weight ranges listed in the manual. They are not suitable to install any child restraints. Whether or not there is a safety concern is unknown, simply because the child restraints aren't designed or tested for installation on side or rear-facing vehicle seats.

[Lilsid]

Wow what a dilemma. At first I thought I would if I were you go with the front seat and have both airbags turned off, and put the new baby RF up there with you. But for years down the road I think I would put in the backbench seat with the 3-point seat belts and the head rests. I would put the two oldest in the back in just seat belts and give your pre teen a walk man to keep her occupied and quiet. You only have a few more years and she can drive her self and maybe help out more.

I know its not as safe as getting a new Van with 12-15 seats but if its all you can do then its better then some of the things I have seen here in phoenix with 10 people including kids shoved into a pick up truck cab.

My aunt has a 15 passenger van in MT with 4wd and it only has bench seats with out head rests and I dont think that is very safe, or comfortable.

Good luck and I wish you a happy new baby.

[skipspin]

I know that the Chevy trucks/SUVs with the console/middle seat in the front are lep-belt only, can't have a car seat installed and the driver's airbag also deploys there- so it's not really safe for anyone. I don't see how they can even have it there. We have used our once or twice for emergency/unexpected situations, but never put kids there.

Personally I think the drive two cars and rent a van for vacations sounds like the safest, least expensive option.

Or you could put the 13 yr old on the roof....just kidding. We give our teenage neighbor girls rides to church and that's what we threaten if they get attitudes.

[urmysunshinex3]

The Excursion did come in a model that had a 3 passenger bench in front. I know the chances of you being able to locate just the bench seat are slim, but if you were able to find one it would be fairly simple to replace the buckets with the bench. I would then get both air bags turned off and put car seat in the middle lap-only position. If you know anyone at your local Ford dealer I would give them a call. A bench seat may still be available for the Excursion?

Lynette~Mom to My Three Sunshine's and CPST

[papooses]

I believe you have to petition NHTSA to have the driver airbag turned off & then might need to get the manufacturer to get the dealership to make the change....

[Unregistered]

True and this would also be the case for turning off the passenger airbag except for vehicles already equipped with a switch to turn off the passenger side airbag like in some newer pickup trucks. I've heard of cases where dealers are very reluctant to turn off the front airbag even when NHTSA has granted the okay because the dealership was still worried about CYA and liability issues.