Apex in a Caravan

[raelynn]

A coworker of mine bought 2 Apexes for her DSs. She has them installed with the headrests removed, and for now it's okay because her DSs are both short enough that the tops of their ears are well below the top of the vehicle seat.

However she showed me the headrests and they tilt forward a LOT, and she said they don't work with the Apex.

Is there a workaround for this (reclining the seat a bit?) - I see very very few Apexes in my travels. Or is the Apex completely incompatible with her van once her DSes get taller?

[hillary116]

I think you can turn around the headresat so the bump faces outwards. When I took our car to a safety inspection, the tech turned ours around for the same reason. They fit well that way.

[raelynn]

I think you can turn around the headresat so the bump faces outwards. When I took our car to a safety inspection, the tech turned ours around for the same reason. They fit well that way.

Hmm Can I get another tech to confirm this is okay? I have almost zero experience with this seat and I know there are certain acceptable things to do with installing (like flipping the latchplates in Dodges).

[crunchierthanthou]

be careful with flipping the headrests. Most don't click in backward and can be a very dangerous projectile in a crash.

You can try reclining the seat a click or two (which the Caravan actually recommends when using LATCH) or raising the vehicle headrest to a higher position. The padded part doesn't have to be right behind the child's head; the headrest as a whole just has to support the Apex headpiece.

[CDNTech]

Sounds like a Caravan around the 00-03 year? The head rests do slope quite a bit forward and they do *not* lock into place when turned backwards... basically the Apex is incompatible with this vehicle once the headrests are needed to provide adequate head support. Sorry. :(

[Maggie]

Sounds like a Caravan around the 00-03 year? The head rests do slope quite a bit forward and they do *not* lock into place when turned backwards... basically the Apex is incompatible with this vehicle once the headrests are needed to provide adequate head support. Sorry. :(

This is not true.

I have an '01 Grand Caravan and unless the Caravan vs GC have different headrests, it's possible.

My Apex is ROCK solid. My seat is reclined 1 click. Installed with LATCH. It seems like it's not going to lay nicely. Once the LATCH straps are tightened down and the top tether is tightened it's just fine.

I will gladly go out to my van in the morning and snap some pictures.

I have a friend with an '02 GC that has 2 Apex's in the back row, both are using the vehicle headrest.

[CDNTech]

Are the headrests locked in place? I had an '03 that the Apex would not fit properly in the captain's chair with the head restraint locked in place. :confused:

[raelynn]

This van is only a year old, so a 2007.

The headrests are like this:
http://www.agedstock.com/images/newvehicles/dodge/2005/caravan/car_safety_childseat_0_minor.jpg

[snowbird25ca]

This is not true.

I have an '01 Grand Caravan and unless the Caravan vs GC have different headrests, it's possible.

My Apex is ROCK solid. My seat is reclined 1 click. Installed with LATCH. It seems like it's not going to lay nicely. Once the LATCH straps are tightened down and the top tether is tightened it's just fine.

I will gladly go out to my van in the morning and snap some pictures.

I have a friend with an '02 GC that has 2 Apex's in the back row, both are using the vehicle headrest.

The Apex manual specifically states that the headrest can't be pushed forward by the vehicle headrest at all, so unless the seat is actually sliding down below the tilt of the headrest when installed, so that the headrest is hardly touching the top of the seat at all, then I'd wonder about how it's not pushing the headrest forward - and if it's not now, if it will do it as the headrest is raised further.

Raelynn - Looking at that pic you posted it doesn't really surprise me if she can't put it in without having the top of the shell of the apex pushed forward. That's one heck of a jutting forward headrest. At least Dodge makes them removable or it would be a giant PITB to install seats in.

[Maggie]

The Apex manual specifically states that the headrest can't be pushed forward by the vehicle headrest at all, so unless the seat is actually sliding down below the tilt of the headrest when installed, so that the headrest is hardly touching the top of the seat at all, then I'd wonder about how it's not pushing the headrest forward - and if it's not now, if it will do it as the headrest is raised further.

Raelynn - Looking at that pic you posted it doesn't really surprise me if she can't put it in without having the top of the shell of the apex pushed forward. That's one heck of a jutting forward headrest. At least Dodge makes them removable or it would be a giant PITB to install seats in.

Could you tell me where it says this in the manual? I'm not being snarky, I honestly can't find it anywhere. I've read my manual front to back several times since getting the seat and I've never seen that. :confused:

The first 2 pictures are of the Apex as DD uses it in my '01 GC. 3rd slot from the bottom.

The 3rd one (sorry so blurry) is of the vehicle headrest in the highest lockable position. Not sure what position I moved the Apex to, but it's above the 4th set of slots, so this is the highest we'd ever use it. DD most likely won't ever use this as a booster. I couldn't pass it up, I found it on clearance at Baby Depot for $65. :o

Are these installs acceptable?

And yes, I'm fully aware of the projectiles in my car. Thing is, my car doesn't move right now. It's waiting for DH to put tires on it. :rolleyes: So it's the Christmas present hiding spot for now. :p

[CDNTech]

In your first picture it looks like there is space between the back of the Apex and the vehicle seatback of the captain's chair... which would mean the headrest is pushing the seat forward. It's really hard to tell with the picture, but if this is the case, I'm not really okay with that install. :(

I would do a comparison of the seat installed with the head restraint in position and the head restraint removed to see the difference in installation.

You can remove the head restraint (and re-install) and as long as the tips of your daughter's ears do not go above the *vehicle* seatback, you can continue to use this seat safely. Once that happens (tips of the ears go above the vehicle seatback), it would require vehicle head support and I would say the seat is not compatible with the vehicle. Sorry. :o

[Carefulove]

I believe the shell of the Apex is back and the picture doesn't show it well, that's why it seems to be a space in between. I thought the same thing at first.

[CDNTech]

I believe the shell of the Apex is back and the picture doesn't show it well, that's why it seems to be a space in between. I thought the same thing at first.

No, I'm talking about the grey shell (where the headrest of the Apex raises/lowers)... there looks to be a gap between the vehicle seatback and the grey shell of the Apex.

I think a comparison install shot with no head restraint vs. head restraint will give you a better idea of whether the head restraint is pushing the seat out or not.

[Maggie]

Hmm, well I'll have to look later. The manual says the back of the child restraint must be flush and the child restraint must be supported by a vehicle headrest. It's doing both. I don't have time right now to uninstall and reinstall with no headrest, but I'll try later.

The seat back in my van slopes slighty upward at the top of the seat, which is why it doesn't sit completley flush.

I'll check into it before we use the seat again. :thumbsup:

[snowbird25ca]

Hmm, well I'll have to look later. The manual says the back of the child restraint must be flush and the child restraint must be supported by a vehicle headrest. It's doing both. I don't have time right now to uninstall and reinstall with no headrest, but I'll try later.

The seat back in my van slopes slighty upward at the top of the seat, which is why it doesn't sit completley flush.

I'll check into it before we use the seat again. :thumbsup:

This picture actually shows pretty well that the headrest is pushing the top part of the apex forward.

I'm not sure the exact page in the manual but I think it might be in the warning section that if vehicle seat interferes with the head restraint of the apex a different seating location must be chosen. Which effectively writes off any vehicle with headrests that tilt forward a good deal.

[Maggie]

I'm failing to see the difference. If you really think the headrest is leaning forward that much perhaps I have a defective seat. It looks the same with, or without a headrest.

I'm sure you've seen an Apex before. The back is one straight line. The base and back of the Apex are flush against the back of my vehicle seat. At the top, the vehicle seat begins to curve slightly up, creating the gap.

I guess I'm failing to see the HUGE problem. :confused: It's not like the headrest is slammed forward at a 90 degree angle.

I'm going to say I'm an educated woman who is greatly concerned with her child's safety. I read my manuals (car and carseat :thumbsup:) I have my seats checked at Safe Kids seat checks. My seats are installed tight. My kids harnesses are tight. Their chest clips are at arm pit level. The harness is in the correct slot. I'm going to bow out of this discussion and say I'm 100% ok with my seat and I feel my daughter is totally safe in it. Thanks for your input though. :thumbsup: :)

[Maedze]

That headrest on the Apex looks to me like it does when it's not installed just sitting on the floor. It doesn't look 'pushed forward' at all to me :confused:

Also, when they say the headrest can't be pushed forward I bet they mean what I see some parents do...install a seat with the vehicle head rest in that literally makes the whole seat tip forward, instead of taking the head rest out.

[snowbird25ca]

I'm failing to see the difference. If you really think the headrest is leaning forward that much perhaps I have a defective seat. It looks the same with, or without a headrest.

I'm sure you've seen an Apex before. The back is one straight line. The base and back of the Apex are flush against the back of my vehicle seat. At the top, the vehicle seat begins to curve slightly up, creating the gap.

I guess I'm failing to see the HUGE problem. :confused: It's not like the headrest is slammed forward at a 90 degree angle.


First I just want to say, I really didn't think you were putting your dd in danger, so no need to defend yourself. :)

I took a closer look at the apex tonight after looking at your before and after picture, because I agree that there doesn't seem to be a difference. What I wondered after looking at the display is how much the setting for the height of the headrest on the apex influences how it sits against the headrest.

As for the comment about pushing forward, I think it's an important warning in the manual because a LOT of new vehicles are coming with headrests that slant forward significantly. Because the head support of the apex isn't structurally stiff on it's own, there wouldn't be resistance if the head rest pushed it forward, it would just flex forward at the higher height adjustments. Perhaps this biggest impact if that were to occur would be on head excursion? I'm not sure exactly what the reasoning is, but it wouldn't be part of the instructions if it wasn't important...

Anyways, all that to say that I'm going to agree with you that your install looks ok & the headrest isn't being a problem. If you feel so inclined would you be willing to experiment with adjusting the head restraint of the apex to different heights? I know that's asking a lot since you might have to uninstall and reinstall, so I don't expect it.. I'm just curious if changing the height on the head restraint affects how it interacts with the headrest. I would expect it to, but you never know. :thumbsup:

[Maggie]

I could probably do that this weekend. :thumbsup: My hubby is taking the kids up north for the weekend! :love:

Sorry for seeming a bit snippy. :o I just felt a little attacked. Not specifically from you. Just overall that the install was not acceptable, when I just wasn't seeing the problem. :o

I can totally see though how it would be pushed forward by some headrests. The headrest on the driver and passenger seat in my van totally slant forward and that would cause problems.