True Fit - Various questions

[SafeRide]

I bought this and tried to install it in a 2002 Honda Civic sedan 4dr. Could someone help answer the following?

1) Manual says to install seat at angle for RF at 45 degrees - red line parallel to ground. Can this angle be 75 degrees instead? More upright instead or reclined. Need to be able to use front seat so front passenger doesn't eat the windshield. How many noodles/rolled up towels can be used?

2) Is the seat supposed to move RF? I can move the back of the seat. How tight is tight? I am only able to get rock solid install FF with LATCH. Any tips or tricks for RF with seat belts for my car?

Page 21 - I cannot get the center locking tab to lock the seatbelt webbing for FF. The seatbelt doubles up so can I only lock one of the webbings instead? Is this really required?

3) Page 36 of manual says harness positions 1-3 are for RF. Harness postions 2-4 are for FF. Does that mean that harness position 4 can ONLY be used FF and NOT RF? The 3rd harness position only measures 14.5 inches high. That's not very high. Would like to use harness position 4 (17 inch) RF. Is it safe to do so?

4) Page 35 and 40 regarding height insert (seat pad). How can this be used if it is only for RF but the shoulders need to be at or below the position 1? RF shoulder must always be above the harness slots.

5) When is this seat outgrown FF? I know it says 1 inch between top of head and seat shell for RF.

6) Harness slot width is 4 inches across. Same for all 4 height positions. It looks like the harness the slots are too wide. Would it be a possibility that a shoulder could slip out of the harness?

[snowbird25ca]

Wow, that's a lot of questions. :D I'll do my best to answer them, and I'm sure others will be able to clarify other points in the morning if I've missed anything or if you have further questions.


1) Manual says to install seat at angle for RF at 45 degrees - red line parallel to ground. Can this angle be 75 degrees instead? More upright instead or reclined. Need to be able to use front seat so front passenger doesn't eat the windshield. How many noodles/rolled up towels can be used?

The seat can be installed in the range of 35* to 45* measured from vertical. 15* is incredibly upright, it would probably look pretty much bolt upright? It definitely needs to be reclined a little further - though it's possible maybe the measurement is off? If you can take a pic directly from the side - squat down so that you're level with the carseat, and try to get it as much from the side as possible - taking from opposite side of the vehicle may help, and then post the pic, we'll be able to give you a good idea as to if the seat is within an ok range or if it needs to be reclined more.

2) Is the seat supposed to move RF? I can move the back of the seat. How tight is tight? I am only able to get rock solid install FF with LATCH. Any tips or tricks for RF with seat belts for my car?

Yes, that type of movement at the back of the seat is normal. Your infant seat likely had that same type of movement. When checking for movement you are checking only at the belt path - the point where the seatbelt goes through the shell of the carseat. Grab it with your non-dominant hand, and using gentle but firm pressure try to move the seat side to side. If it's under 1" then you're perfect.

Tips or tricks for RF with seat belt in general with the True Fit is to not have the seat belt 100% tight before closing the lock-offs. The lock-offs take the last bit of slack out and won't close if there's not a bit of give in the belt. You'll also find that the seatbelt wants to slide in to the edge of the lock-off - if the belt isn't totally tight then you'll be able to position the seatbelt in the lock-off so that it's away from the edge. Press down on the lock-off with one hand and put all of your weight on it, then use the other hand to close the lock-off. Then repeat on the other side of the seat. Hopefully that explanation makes sense - it's easier to do than it is to describe. :o


Page 21 - I cannot get the center locking tab to lock the seatbelt webbing for FF. The seatbelt doubles up so can I only lock one of the webbings instead? Is this really required?

Yes, both the lap and shoulder portion need to be in the lock-off. When opening the ff'ing lock-off, double check that you're lifting up the yellow tab, and then pulling it up and out so that the red part of the lock-off lifts open exposing the bumpy ridge in the center of the lock-off. Again you can slide the belt down a little to make sure that it's not right up at the edge of the lock-off. What I've done is pulled the seatbelt tight, then placed my hand on the buckle side of the lock-off to hold the belts in place. Using my free hand, I pull the shoulder section down and away from the top edge of the lock-off, then move the lock-off up in to position. If needed I transfer pressure from one side of the lock-off to the other and switch which hand I'm using to close the lock-off. Same deal as when closing the rf'ing lock-off, except instead of pushing down, you're pushing in, then pressing the yellow tab down.

Some seat belts have plastic buttons on them to prevent the latch plate from sliding down. If this is landing right in the lock-off, it's perfectly fine to take something flat & dull and slip it under the edge of the button and pop it off. It could be this is the problem you're encountering here.

3) Page 36 of manual says harness positions 1-3 are for RF. Harness postions 2-4 are for FF. Does that mean that harness position 4 can ONLY be used FF and NOT RF? The 3rd harness position only measures 14.5 inches high. That's not very high. Would like to use harness position 4 (17 inch) RF. Is it safe to do so?

Position 4 is only for ff'ing. There are a few things to keep in mind.... It's going to be a very rare child to have a full 17" torso, weigh less than 35lbs AND have at least 1" of hard shell above his/her head. Since the straps have to be at or below for rf'ing, then the top slots wouldn't become necessary until a child was even with the top slots. To be perfectly honest, I just don't see a child under 35lbs reaching those top slots.

As to is it safe to do so? I'm not sure. The manual states that position 4 is only for ff'ing, so I wouldn't use it rf'ing. Like I said though, I doubt that there are many kids who would fit the other guidelines of the seat and be that long in the torso. My kids have long torsos, but not that long. Just to give you an idea, my 4yr old used the True Fit rf'ing for a month before her 4th birthday when she weighed in just shy of 35lbs. She was just barely even with position 3. Her torso measures 15.5" and she's 40.5" tall overall. (Though her torso may have been more like 15" then, she has had a growth spurt over the summer and some of it has been in her torso.)



4) Page 35 and 40 regarding height insert (seat pad). How can this be used if it is only for RF but the shoulders need to be at or below the position 1? RF shoulder must always be above the harness slots.

The seat is approved for use rf'ing starting at 5lbs. Most newborn babies won't reach the bottom slots without the height insert. So the height insert is designed to allow a good fit for newborns. The height insert is mandatory until the child's shoulders are at or above position one with the insert removed. Once that happens, it is optional until 22lbs - at which point it must be removed.

5) When is this seat outgrown FF? I know it says 1 inch between top of head and seat shell for RF.

The seat is outgrown ff'ing when 1 of 3 things happens:
- the shoulders go above the slots in position 4
- the weight limit is reached
- the tops of the ears go above the shell of the seat

6) Harness slot width is 4 inches across. Same for all 4 height positions. It looks like the harness the slots are too wide. Would it be a possibility that a shoulder could slip out of the harness?

I have seen it wondered aloud as to if that is a possibility. I have seen pictures of newborns in the seat though, and with the height insert it fits quite well. With older kids I don't see it being a problem.


I think that about covers it? It's late (early for some folks. lol,) and I'm tired, so it's possible I may have missed a question or 2. It's great that you're asking these questions. It's much better to know than to wonder.

Oh - and just to comment on the date of manufacture you mentioned in the other thread... The True Fit does have a 7yr expiry, so you're not losing as much of the life span as you'd be losing on a 6yr expiry seat. (Speaking percentage wise.) 6 months overall isn't a huge amount of time lost. It seems like a lot at first - especially when buying a new seat, but in the grand scheme of things quite a few seats are older on arrival. I suspect the first shipment of True Fits will have had a longer delay from manufacture to arrival just because it was the first distribution and if there was any extra paperwork involved that could of delayed things. One thing I have wondered to myself though is if they've given it a longer useful life to allow for time in transit. I doubt that's the case, but interesting thought anyways.

All of the True Fit seats right now are the 630 model, and Zeller's has only the Misty Morning cover, while Toys R Us/Babies R Us has only the Aurora cover. I have heard rumor of other covers becoming available in Canada, but I don't know if that means new retailers, or if existing retailers will get a bigger selection. :thumbsup:

[mamoomorgan]

Hmmm, I can't find the TF on the babies r us site... do they sell it? Dh doesn't want to do the drive to buy one at Zellers and the website is out of stock. The 6 month old thing doesn't bug me as my kids are 2 and 3 already.
Thanks for asking all the questions, and thanks snowbird for answering them so well!

still considering...
Morgan

[northernmommy]

It's (was?) on sale at Zellers right now for $149.99, so if you're not too far, it may be worth the drive. But yes, it is on the Toys r Us website. Go to the Babies R Us tab, and click the carseats link, then the convertable seats link, it'll be in there. HTH!

[snowbird25ca]

Hmmm, I can't find the TF on the babies r us site... do they sell it? Dh doesn't want to do the drive to buy one at Zellers and the website is out of stock. The 6 month old thing doesn't bug me as my kids are 2 and 3 already.
Thanks for asking all the questions, and thanks snowbird for answering them so well!

still considering...
Morgan

It's temporarily unavailable at TRU/BRU until Oct 13. I believe they might be waiting on a shipment. We've been out of stock for a couple weeks now as have all the other stores in the city, but I suspect some stores still have them in stock.

Quite often things disappear online when they're waiting for new stock, so you may have to just wait until mid Oct to go looking. :thumbsup:

[bubbaray]

3) Page 36 of manual says harness positions 1-3 are for RF. Harness postions 2-4 are for FF. Does that mean that harness position 4 can ONLY be used FF and NOT RF? The 3rd harness position only measures 14.5 inches high. That's not very high. Would like to use harness position 4 (17 inch) RF. Is it safe to do so?


I just wanted to address this point -- if the manual says not to use a particular harness position, IMO its important to follow the manual. We don't know if the seat simply wasn't tested RFg using harness position 4 OR if it failed the crash testing RFg using harness position 4.

Either way, its not a good idea to use any child restraint contrary to the manual.

GL finding your seat! :)

[mamoomorgan]

We just went and bought it at Zellers... YAY!
We haven't installed it in the car yet, hopefully we won't have any issues.

Thanks everyone!

[SafeRide]

1) Manual says to install seat at angle for RF at 45 degrees - red line parallel to ground. Can this angle be 75 degrees instead? More upright instead or reclined. Need to be able to use front seat so front passenger doesn't eat the windshield. How many noodles/rolled up towels can be used?

The seat can be installed in the range of 35* to 45* measured from vertical. 15* is incredibly upright, it would probably look pretty much bolt upright? It definitely needs to be reclined a little further - though it's possible maybe the measurement is off? If you can take a pic directly from the side - squat down so that you're level with the carseat, and try to get it as much from the side as possible - taking from opposite side of the vehicle may help, and then post the pic, we'll be able to give you a good idea as to if the seat is within an ok range or if it needs to be reclined more.
[/COLOR]

I installed it based on the red line being level with the ground and it looked very reclined. I think the red line on the seat is off about 10*. It's about 55*.

Is the 35* to 45* for newborns only? My child is just about a year old. I will try installing it again and measure the angle with a protractor. The more reclined it is the less room for the front seat. How much space is required between the front seat and can it touch? Where can I find noodles now? Summer is over.

[mommycat]

I installed it based on the red line being level with the ground and it looked very reclined. I think the red line on the seat is off about 10*. It's about 55*.

Is the 35* to 45* for newborns only? My child is just about a year old. I will try installing it again and measure the angle with a protractor. The more reclined it is the less room for the front seat. How much space is required between the front seat and can it touch? Where can I find noodles now? Summer is over.
This seat tends to look very reclined when it is installed at 45 degrees, especially without the headrest attached. This does not mean the line is off. The sticker should be applied to an area of plastic that has a different texture than the surrounding shell, which would let you notice if the sticker was applied incorrectly.

The 45* angle is for newborns. Older kids can be more vertical but only as much as 35*. If you can get a picture of the seat when it's installed we can measure the angle for you in this thread: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=16425&page=15.

[mommycat]

Oops, missed part of your question:
Recline - is this the only seat you have in the vehicle? If so, installing the seat in the center can often help with space as the top of the seat can often fit between the two front seats, allowing some overlap of sorts. I believe that the seat can touch but not push against the front seat - someone please verify! I usually try to get my seats so that I can just see a sliver of a gap between them.

Pool noodles can be hard to find this time of year. You can use a tightly rolled towel or receiving blanket instead. If you can find a tech near you they can help you with your installation and may also have some noodles on hand, as a bonus.

[SafeRide]

I have another carseat behind the driver's side so the True Fit will go passenger side. I will try it at 35* and see how that fits. I read somewhere in the forums that I can even use rolled up newspapers (or anything firm that isn't a projectile) to set the angle.

With the built-in lockoffs in the car seat, do I still have to engage the car's seatbelt locking mechanism (pull seatbelt all the way out to enable the locking)?

[mommycat]

I amnot sure on the newspaper - I know I saw that somewhere but I thought the post I read said the newspaper was NOT a good idea. *puzzled* Anyhow, a towel is the usual suggestion.

If you are installing the seat with the seatbelt, you have to use the lockoffs, and no, you would NOT engage the seatbelt locking mechanism. You already have the seatbelt locked with the lockoffs.

To add some suggestions to those from above, when getting the lockoffs closed:
- it should be easier to close the lockoffs with an angle that is less than 45* as they will not slip as much towards the hinge
- I usually tighten the belt down as much as I would want it to be in any other install, and then allow it to loosen bit by bit just until I can get the non-buckle side lined up well enough in the lockoff (lean on that side of the seat a bit more) and close it. Then I lean on the other side and push at the belt - now having both hands to do it with - until I can get that lockoff closed as well. I have an '07 Civic (so a bit different than yours) and have had the TF in there RF passenger side with very good results. It did take a couple of tries to get used to doing it and get a good install.

[SafeRide]

If you are installing the seat with the seatbelt, you have to use the lockoffs, and no, you would NOT engage the seatbelt locking mechanism. You already have the seatbelt locked with the lockoffs.

Are you 100% sure that you don't use BOTH car's seatbelt locking mechanism and carseat lockoffs? I thought you had to use it?

I was trying to use both the car's seatbelt locking mechanism and the carseat lockoffs. Is this safe? I could not find any mention of it in the manual.

My other carseat doesn't have lockoffs but the car's seatbelt locking mechanism is engaged.

[mamoomorgan]

I have a question too, am I the only one who installer per instructions (rf) only to find that there was no way in he77 I could do the snaps back up? I had to uninstall, put the cover back on (which in the manual it tells you to partially remove before installing) and then re-install... annoying!
Also, I can barely adjust the straps at all now that it's installed. The strap is up but very hard to pull on the loosener button is nearly impossible to use. I guess we'll get the right tension and leave it but it's hard to get a sleeping child out of tight straps. My only vent so far.

It was pretty easy to install over with the UAS, though the latch belt was not where it was in the picture and I had to find it and rethread it, which I dislike because I think people who are not used to installing seats may be confused and do it wrong.

Thanks for the advice,
Morgan

[shauburg]

I have a question too, am I the only one who installer per instructions (rf) only to find that there was no way in he77 I could do the snaps back up? I had to uninstall, put the cover back on (which in the manual it tells you to partially remove before installing) and then re-install... annoying!

Yes, I also found this. I don't why the manual tells you to partially remove the cover before installing. :confused: At least the cover has little flaps in it to allow you fairly easy access to the lock-offs with the cover on.

Also, I can barely adjust the straps at all now that it's installed. The strap is up but very hard to pull on the loosener button is nearly impossible to use. I guess we'll get the right tension and leave it but it's hard to get a sleeping child out of tight straps. My only vent so far.


Yes, that seems to be the #1 complaint people have about the True Fit when RF. I was offered some tips here - http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=47717, but quite honestly I still find it a pain.

[mommycat]

Are you 100% sure that you don't use BOTH car's seatbelt locking mechanism and carseat lockoffs? I thought you had to use it?

I was trying to use both the car's seatbelt locking mechanism and the carseat lockoffs. Is this safe? I could not find any mention of it in the manual.

My other carseat doesn't have lockoffs but the car's seatbelt locking mechanism is engaged.
You want to lock the lap portion of the seatbelt in some way to install correctly. Sometimes this is done with a locking latchplate, sometimes a locking clip, sometimes by engaging the ALR seatbelt retractor, and in the case of this seat, the lockoffs. You do not need to double up on the methods, and there is some chance that using both could be detrimental. It was not tested this way. It is possible that the shoulder belt tightening over time could stress the lockoffs and cause them to malfunction. I would not use both.

For your other seat, since it has no lockoffs, engaging the ALR retractor is an acceptable option of locking the belt assuming that it does not cause the seat to tip (I had an AOE in my parents' 2001 Civic and had to use a locking clip instead of the ALR because it was allowing the seat to tip sideways significantly, partly influenced by the big metal seat hinge for the 40/60 split seatback, I think).

I have a question too, am I the only one who installer per instructions (rf) only to find that there was no way in he77 I could do the snaps back up?
Post 5 in thi9s thread: http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=48629 has a picture of the cutouts shauburg mentioned, in case anyone is wondering. I really can't see how you could do the snaps back up at anything less than 45*, if that.