If you could ask Transport Canada ANYTHING...

[QuassEE]

...what would it be?

Discuss.

-Nicole.

[Anja59]

I asked them about the regulations regarding a car seat in an airplane and got prompt and very knowledgeable reply! :thumbsup: :bow: :2thumbsup: :cool!: :yeahthat: :love: Quite frankly I didn't expect this, so it was a really positive experience. By the way: I'm still waiting for Air Canadas answer to the same question. They have a reply-period of 21 days stated on their homepage... :eek: :thumbsdown: :jaw:

Best Anja

[hipmaman]

My first question...

Are there any plan for CMVSS and FMVSS to synchronise/merge into one single N. American safety testing standards and certification process? Btw, a yes or no will not suffice, so please comment :) ;)

[Anja59]

My first question...

Are there any plan for CMVSS and FMVSS to synchronise/merge into one single N. American safety testing standards and certification process? Btw, a yes or no will not suffice, so please comment :) ;)

Good point...

[QuassEE]

As far as airplanes AND US regs go, we need to know whether or not Transport Canada Airworthiness has plans to expand seats allowed on airplanes to CMVSS, authorized FMVSS, or seats approved for air travel by a foreign certifying body/country.. I forget how this is worded exactly for the current US regulations, but it is in there. Here in Vancouver, we see a lot of Air Canada travel between here and foreign countries and many parents would like to be able to properly restrain their children on those flights but cannot. Often times, parents can use their seats for one leg of a flight and then not for another, once they've changed planes/airlines.

[shauburg]

RF Weight Limits #1 - Why are some manufacturers (Evenflo for example - http://www.car-seat.org/showthread.php?t=36527) under the impression that seats certified to 35 lb RF in the US, cannot be certified to 35 lb RF in Canada? Obviously with the arrival of the 35 lb RF True Fit in Canada this is not the case, so can TC issue a letter to all manufacturers clarifying this?

RF Weight Limits #2 - If a manufacturer wished to, could they even certify a seat to a higher than 35lb RF limit in Canada? According to SJA tech manual, there was a March 2000 change in the standards to allow manufacturers of infant/child restraints the option (if they wished to & the seat could withstand it) to increase the weight limit up to 48lb in the rear-facing position. Please expand on this and provide links/copies of these standards if available.

Height Limits - Why are some manufacturers under the impression that seats must have absolute numerical height limits (i.e. 32" RF, 50" FF)? Again this is obviously not true because some Cdn seats just state the rules we usually use (i.e. 1" of shell over head RF), so can TC issue a letter to all manufacturers clarifying this as well?

TC "interpretation letters" - In addition to the regulations, manufacturers often refer to "interpretation letters" received from TC. Are these available to the public (hopefully online), like the regulations are?

[bubbaray]

When are they going to test/approve 80lb FFg seats like the Regent?

Oh, and if I could ask a second question, I'd ask why they continue to recommend t-shield boosters for children.... :mad:

[QuassEE]

Melissa, the law doesn't currently allow for 80lb harnessed seats... so that might be a start to that question but I'm not sure we'll get much of an answer because this is something that's really being worked on during the interim orders. As well, the "certification" process is a bit different from what you might expect--again, a great question since we could ask for some clarification on *how* seats become "certified".

Can you provide a reference or references on current TC documentation recommending a shield booster for use in a situation other than a lap-only belt?

-Nicole.

[hipmaman]

My second question - This is multi-part question and more than just child restraint though...

Are there any plans to prohibit lap-only seatbelt in vehicles? And if not, will there be any plan to certify products such as the EZ-On or RideSafer Vests for safe utilisation of vehicle seats with lap-only seatbelts or in older vehicle with the lap-only seatbelts? http://www.ezonpro.com/products/familyVehicle.shtml and http://www.safetrafficsystem.com/

[bubbaray]

Melissa, the law doesn't currently allow for 80lb harnessed seats... so that might be a start to that question but I'm not sure we'll get much of an answer because this is something that's really being worked on during the interim orders. As well, the "certification" process is a bit different from what you might expect--again, a great question since we could ask for some clarification on *how* seats become "certified".

Can you provide a reference or references on current TC documentation recommending a shield booster for use in a situation other than a lap-only belt?

-Nicole.


Yes, I realize the law does not allow for 80lb harnessed seats. That's my point. Specifically, when will the regulations be amended (as I understand it, its not the statute that needs to be amended, but the regulations, which is much easier) to allow for 80lb harnessed seats. I called and asked back last winter and they gave me the "we have a minority goverment" song and dance. Whatever. I don't think child safety is really a partisan issue, but hey, maybe I'm wrong. Personally, I think its going to take some KDM tragedy to get a private members bill to go to the House. As far as I understand the process, if this is a regulation, all they need is committee approval, it d/n need to go to a full vote in the House.

As for the shield booster issue, I was told via telephone by a certain well-known TC employee (who is not male and who's name does not start with A, but you are very very warm if you're at that end of the alphabet) that I should put my child in a shield booster if she outgrew the MA by harness top slot height before she was 40lbs and "ready" for a l/s booster. I almost hung up on her.

[April]

The top of my list would be as stated by previous posters:

#1: To please clarify the overall height limit issue (ie 32"rf, etc)

#2: What has to happen to get 80lb harnessed seats (ie Regent) legal in Canada

And #3, to satisfy my own personal impatience....has the GN passed CMVSS testing, and if so, when did that happen.

[tcottawa]

As for the shield booster issue, I was told via telephone by a certain well-known TC employee (who is not male and who's name does not start with A, but you are very very warm if you're at that end of the alphabet) that I should put my child in a shield booster if she outgrew the MA by harness top slot height before she was 40lbs and "ready" for a l/s booster. I almost hung up on her.


Hmm, this you might get an answer to....:) although I'm actually pretty surprised by that.

[bubbaray]

I should add that that same TC employee has, on other issues, been EXCEEDINGLY helpful. Very knowledgeable and friendly and helpful, etc. But, the "what to do if your child outgrows the highest harnessed seat available in Canada before they can legally be put in a l/s booster" issue is not going to go away.

[CDNTech]

I should add that that same TC employee has, on other issues, been EXCEEDINGLY helpful. Very knowledgeable and friendly and helpful, etc. But, the "what to do if your child outgrows the highest harnessed seat available in Canada before they can legally be put in a l/s booster" issue is not going to go away.

With the Radian and Frontier on the market, I *highly* doubt this is an issue any longer.

My long torso'd (16.5") 6.5 year old has an inch left to go in the Radian and close to two inches in the Frontier. He is just barely 40lbs soaking wet with shoes on and in the 5th percentile for weight (if that). ;)

I would really like to see TC *require* manufacturer's to get rid of numerical height limits and just teach parents the basic rules of when a seat is outgrown... much easier and more accurate.

I would also like to see a national certifying body of techs in Canada similar to SafeKids in the US. Yes, I know we have a SafeKids here, but I want to see it run in the same manner to have better continuity throughout the country... although I guess that's not really a TC thing. :o :D

[tcottawa]

I would really like to see TC *require* manufacturer's to get rid of numerical height limits and just teach parents the basic rules of when a seat is outgrown... much easier and more accurate.

I would also like to see a national certifying body of techs in Canada similar to SafeKids in the US. Yes, I know we have a SafeKids here, but I want to see it run in the same manner to have better continuity throughout the country... although I guess that's not really a TC thing. :o :D

To the first point, I would be SCARED of parents' ideas of when a child has outgrown the seat, or is "big enough" to move to a booster...so many times parents have said to me that they want to turn an infant around FF because "he's such a big boy now..and he's strong" and I'm looking at a regular baby in the 50th percentile, nowhere near outgrowing the available seats RF by weight. I think with children's size, we (as parents) get into a funny headspace where it's hard for us to be objective about it.

As to your second point, I totally agree, but I'm not sure how that would happen or who would spearhead that. It would be a few people's full-time job!

[Allport]

Jen - if you are a certified tech - who holds your certification? SJA is the national certifying body in Canada through a TC program. Yes, there have been problems - the US had problems in the beginning and unfortunately we don't have buy in from all the provinces or provincial SJA offices - but we're working on it!

[CDNTech]

Jen - if you are a certified tech - who holds your certification? SJA is the national certifying body in Canada through a TC program. Yes, there have been problems - the US had problems in the beginning and unfortunately we don't have buy in from all the provinces or provincial SJA offices - but we're working on it!

Oh, SJA holds it... but it took me almost two years of searching to find a class in Alberta. Even then, I had to travel to Red Deer to take it (and I lived in a city of a million plus people at that time - Calgary) and I only heard of it through word of mouth on this site. Every time you call SJA to get info, they have no clue what you are talking about. :(

There are also *no* clinics in Calgary any longer... something I'd like to see rectified. The only clinics you can go to are put on by the Co-Operator's Buckle Up Bears program (in Airdrie) and we only run them 3 - 4 times per year. I was also required to certify through their program (they won't recognize the SJA course even though it's pretty much identical) to volunteer with them.

I know they are working on it... I'm just not that patient. ;)

[CDNTech]

To the first point, I would be SCARED of parents' ideas of when a child has outgrown the seat, or is "big enough" to move to a booster...so many times parents have said to me that they want to turn an infant around FF because "he's such a big boy now..and he's strong" and I'm looking at a regular baby in the 50th percentile, nowhere near outgrowing the available seats RF by weight. I think with children's size, we (as parents) get into a funny headspace where it's hard for us to be objective about it.


I should have been a little more clearer :o... I want to see the *maximum* numerical limits disappear and replaced with basic rules...
Outgrown RFing when *one* of the following happen...
1. weight limit exceeded
2. head within one inch from the top of the shell

Outgrown FFing when *one* of the following happen...
1. weight limit exceeded
2. shoulders go above the top slots
2. tips of the ears go above the top of the shell

I have no problem with *minimum* numerical limits in place. I agree they keep those 'my 9 - 12 month old is a big boy' parents at bay. :)

[tcottawa]

Oh, SJA holds it... but it took me almost two years of searching to find a class in Alberta. Even then, I had to travel to Red Deer to take it (and I lived in a city of a million plus people at that time - Calgary) and I only heard of it through word of mouth on this site. Every time you call SJA to get info, they have no clue what you are talking about. :(



This was my experience, too. I found out about our local coalition on this board :love:. SJA was completely clueless, or just didn't call me back.

What I'd love to see is a national registry of techs/clinics/local groups, with a website with all the provincial legislation on it, info on all the stages of car seats, etc. Something so I could tell friends who don't live around here, "Oh, go here, put in your postal code, and get the info for how to get a car seat inspected in your area"...

[QuassEE]

I'm a Systems/Database Administrator, and DH does web design.. we actually tossed around the idea of starting up a database where technicians could register--similar to the SK one.. but without some support from SJA at the provincial level it would be a massive undertaking. I feel like Transport Canada might be the only "body" that could get the ball rolling on a central database..

[April]

This was my experience, too. I found out about our local coalition on this board :love:. SJA was completely clueless, or just didn't call me back.



My experience was the same as well. I called the local SJA, as well as the BC Yukon Regional office, and they said that they no longer offer the course (that was about 9 months ago.) If you search on the BC SJA website it comes up with nothing.

I searched and searched and couldn't find anything anywhere on how to become a tech in BC. The I finally stumbled upon SJA's INSTRUCTOR, and she said she had no idea why I was told they don't do the course anymore, that she has taught 9 for them since January, 2008. And I can take one too, if I just write a cheque for $500 she will be happy to get me in the course. Mind you her sister pulled me over at a seat check that same morning and had no idea what a Radian, Frontier, or Apex was.....

And then I found the Justice Institute and they are offering the course for $75 in September. Certified through SJA, and the rest of the cost paid by BCAA. But I mean if I wasn't quite as obsessed, I might have given up long ago. And the other part is, what do I do once I'm certified? Nothing. Private checks and that's it. Its not like I can even volunteer at seat checks because the only ones doing them are BCAA and they don't want you unless you actually work for them. There's a whole bunch of us out there wanting to make a difference and "they" make it so difficult. (Not saying TC, but the whole setup in Canada is dumb right now IMO)

Anyways, sorry for the vent, but I just feel like I want to be able to do so much more and it's next to impossible, unless I get US certified and go do seat checks in WA state. :mad:

[Allport]

I understand the frustration - believe me! But also please keep in mind that things will be improving very soon! If you know people who want to be involved in the changes please contact Barb at TC. There is a national registry of Instructors and Instructor-Trainers and she can find people in your area - or help you get your area together! The Buckle Up Bears people are good - and SJA doesn't accept their certification either for reasons that don't need to be discussed in this or any forum. Things can't change without help!

[babychild taxi]

In addition to all the info/questions given, I would like to see some sort of ongoing/mass publicity regarding the proper use of seats at all stages, expiry dates and the dangers of using beyond that, promoting harnessing for as long as possible/seat, etc permits (not just 22/40lbs then onto the next seat).

I'm tired of seeing people misusing seats, especially expired ones and/or putting kids into boosters when they are not ready. I think it's worth the $ to buy proper seats for the kids in our cars as we are responsible for them (and no I don't have any, just help some out, and I spent the $).

I look forward to seeing what Transport Canada does with all our info.

K.

[featherhead]

Here in Manitoba I have seen a "60 second driver" commercial about car seats. It talked a bit about each stage of car seat, and I'm pretty sure it said something about not buying used car seats. But I agree with you that there could be a lot more effort put into public awareness.

[QuassEE]

Re-phrasing this for a TC question would be something along the lines of:

Who is responsible for public awareness and education surrounding carseat law and safety? What education is provided at the Federal level, and what is provided at the Provinicial level?


The reason I'm asking this is because we see a HUGE difference in educational materials depending on where we are. In Alberta, they have (well, had, in some places) some great programs offering a lot of services to the public. In British Columbia, we have BCAA but next to nil education out there and VERY LOW comlpiance to laws even after the new booster law. There seem to be huge differences province-to-province and I'm wondering if the lack of any downward flow of information or funding from the federal government is having a negative impact on provinces that do not have highly established educational programs..

We get American television and frequently see booster advertisements. I never see these on Canadian tv, but have heard a few on the radio.

-Nicole.

[hipmaman]

My third question or comment...

TC needs to clarify the weight limits for UAS and tether anchors. We never had this issue prior to the max weight limit of harness carseats been increased beyond 48 lbs, but now with seats of 65 lbs limit, there should be some sort of guideline or clarification for users to follow. I would think a cheat sheet similar to this one would be useful http://www.saferidenews.com/pdfs/pg_126_max_wt_07.pdf

[Shanora]

Will there be (or is there currently) a requirement for all cars manufactures to have a head rest of some kind installed in the middle back seat?

A few car manufactures are currently putting in some, but I think there needs to be head rest in the back middle seat for all cars, as adults (and children) sit in the middle back as well, and with out head rests the risk of whiplash is greater.

[snowbird25ca]

My third question or comment...

TC needs to clarify the weight limits for UAS and tether anchors. We never had this issue prior to the max weight limit of harness carseats been increased beyond 48 lbs, but now with seats of 65 lbs limit, there should be some sort of guideline or clarification for users to follow. I would think a cheat sheet similar to this one would be useful http://www.saferidenews.com/pdfs/pg_126_max_wt_07.pdf

I agree that the information needs to be more widely available. The instructor here does an annual update with all the techs in the city, and this was addressed in our update. Communication from TC has indicated to discontinue use of lower anchors at 48lbs in all vehicles until further research can be done.

So I know TC has a position on this based on what I was told, but considering the high # of techs who may not be actively involved or who may not be in areas where updates are done, the info likely isn't well known amongst techs yet. Especially when you factor in that 65lb limits have only been around for just over a year.

(So far as I know, updates aren't a standard thing, but some areas do them.)

[shauburg]

So is TC going to answer our questions now? :D