UGH, 15 passenger van fiasco rears its ugle head again..

[Ahzryn]

Daycare quit using them (yeah!), then the girls went to Summer Camp where they used big charter buses for field trips. Then there was school (K-1 building) which of course used school buses, and then to after care which was on-site, so no transportation needs. When dh lost his job, they just started riding the bus home from school together since he was home. Then, summer camp again (again with the nice charter buses). So, things have been ok transportation wise.

Until now :( Now A is in second grade at a different school, and K is in first at the same one from last year. And, I can't afford to send them to after care every day of the week, which would of course be in two different buildings several miles apart as well. They won't do partial weeks. You pay for the whole month, whether you use it or not. So, no more cushy on-site care.

The same place that did summer camp does after school care and will do partial weeks, BUT for school pickup they use those %^*! 15 passenger vans! Ugh :( So, now I don't know what to do. The other places I've checked I either can't afford, won't do partial weeks, or use the same vans. Why won't they just outlaw the blinking things!

So...I guess, wwyd? Given the law is 4 and 40 here, odds on using a restraint on those things is pretty much 0. The girls really want to go there, because they can swim every Friday and they love the coordinators there, not to mention several of their friends will be going. And dh wants them to go, because it means he won't have to leave work, wait for them to get home from school, wait for me to get home from work, and then go back in hours later for the rest of the night. So, I am the mean, paranoid, overly cautious mommy on everyone's bad list :( Do you think it's unreasonable?

[Milkie&Cookie]

can you provide a restraint for the 15 passenger van to use? I'm not aware of the concern - other than the fact that they tend to roll....

[MomToEliEm]

This summer, I made the decision to allow my older child (6 years old) to ride the 15 passenger vans at her summer daycare. They go on field trips 1-2 times a week using the vans. From looking around at other daycare options, this was the best place for her to be as they have a lot of fun activities, she is with her friends, and she likes the teachers. I also like the fact that she is at the same center as her younger sister so I can pick them both up at the same time after work.

I really stressed over the 15-passenger van situation, but in the end, I felt that the risk was worth it to stay at the center. Prior to my DD starting this summer, I drafted up a letter to the director asking that my daughter always use her high back booster seat whenever using the van and that she must always be in a seating position with a lap shoulder belt. The director of the center said that it would be fine to use the booster seat on the field trips. On the days that there is a field trip, I leave the booster seat by her cubby for the teacher to pick up and put in the van.

My child is the only one in the center using a booster seat in the van (field trips are for 5+ year olds), but that doesn't bother me too much. My DD doesn't seem bothered either. I made sure to get a pretty seat for her that others might think was "cool" (britax parkway in woodstock pattern).

[BookMama]

Can you send a backless booster to school with each DD?

I see numerous kids carrying backless boosters when I pick DS up from school - I assume they're using them for carpool. If your DDs can buckle themselves in a backless, I can't see how the day care could object - if they do, take the girls out to the van and actually demonstrate how poorly the seat belts fit. :twocents:

[Ahzryn]

No, restraints aren't an option in their van. They just aren't qualified to install a carseat, or probably a booster for that matter. Since they'd only be there two days a week, leaving them installed isn't an option either. So it would be poorly fitting shoulderbelts, lap belts only, and tons of bookbag projectiles in a vehicle known for terrible crash performance and very high rollover risk :(

[MomToEliEm]

Can you send a backless booster to school with each DD?


But don't those 15 passenger vans have pretty low backs with no headrests? There wouldn't be any head support which I thought was required with those no-back boosters.

[Ahzryn]

But don't those 15 passenger vans have pretty low backs with no headrests? There wouldn't be any head support which I thought was required with those no-back boosters.

Right, in addition to a very limited supply of shoulder belts. The shoulder belts are only outboard, where you would really need the added protection of a high-backed booster for SIP too. Little hard for them to take to school though :) Both of my girls are too tall to use a backless in those vans due to head support, and the younger one is just BARELY heavy enough. Plus, I guess I really have a problem with the fact that if I make my child safer, that means someone elses child is LESS safe because they were moved to a lap belt position.

[MissKatie]

I feel your pain. My daycare uses the vans too. I hate them. I don't even fit well in those seat belts. I technically need a HBB in that van. And the head support is nonexistant, even 4 y/os not in boosters are head and shoulders above the seat back.

I don't know what you should do... that's a really tough situation. Is the center planning on getting any new busses/vans in the future? I know we are moving to a compartmentalized bus with fold down harnesses. Anyways I don't have much advice, just wanted to empathize... best of luck. If I could come pick your kids up and drop them off every day I would :)

[BookMama]

Boy, this is a tough one then. On the one hand, my immediate thought is no appropriate restraints = a no go, for me. On the other hand, you don't really have many other child care options, do you? I guess I'm not much help. :o

How close does DH work? Is there any way he could pick them up and drive them to child care? Not ideal, but better than him taking them home and then going back to work after you get home. Maybe he can take his "lunch" break at that time?

[Ahzryn]

It's my understanding Ohio finally outlawed the vans for the transportation of school aged children in any capacity, BUT existing vans are grandfathered in. Any replacement vehicles for any state licensed care facility must be buses or passenger vehicles (which those vans are NOT), but they can continue to use existing vehicles. These are fairly new, so I don't see they dying any time soon.

[MissAllyLou]

I'm not sure if this would work for your family, or not, but the family I nanny for hired me for this very reason. During the school year, I drop the kids off at school, then pick them up and bring them home after school. I have a set schedule, but the parents choose it. I have my own car seats, but they approve them. They offered to buy seats for me to use, but I already had seats that I know, trust, and can use right, every time, that are appropriate for their sizes, so I declined their offer. But, the situation has worked out great for everyone; they don't have to worry about their kiddos riding in a potentially unsafe vehicle, they are buckled in right, every time, and the parents don't have to worry about getting home at a certain time from work. I would definitely look into it if I were you!

[Wineaux]

I've wondered if you could use a Safeguard STAR in a 15 passenger van. I mean they are using pretty similar bench seats...

http://www.safeguardseat.com/bus/products_addon.htm

[Wineaux]

If the vans are new, do they have LATCH? If so, what about a Clek Ollie that uses rigid LATCH for the install? I would think that it would be pretty tough to screw up THAT install, and it's small enough for a child to tote around.

[Ahzryn]

I don't know if they have LATCH or not, but with the low backed seats, a backless booster is not an option.

I went ahead and made an appointment to talk to the director and see what she says about routes, drivers, their rules, and how many kids they carry. NHTSA claims 80% of fatalities in these vans are from unrestrained passengers, so I don't know. I know statistically the risk is low, but it just goes against the grain when you know there are safer options :(

[Ahzryn]

I'm not sure if this would work for your family, or not, but the family I nanny for hired me for this very reason.

We've looked for a sitter before, and just had no luck. Licensed centers are at least that, licensed, and it's easy to get feedback from other parents as to how good, or bad, a center is. With a private individual, it's just so much more risky. I'm an only child and my parents live far away, so no family help there. DH's family is local, but his sis is a doctor, and his mom watches her little boy for them. We had her help for several years for the girls, so it's SIL's turn now.

I work full time plus some, so it's really hard to get to know the moms of the girls friends well. Unfortunately we just don't live in an age where the community is as strong as it used to be. At least not in my area.

Like I said, I'll see what the director has to say about the safety issues. DH had a good point...hiring a stranger or using a facility we know nothing about also involves risk, potentially more than the risk of riding in a lap only belt.

[TXAggieTech]

I would check with the other moms in the class before I would go the route of a 15 passenger van.

[Mommyto2]

I wonder if the have top tethers? What about using a RSTV in the center? Or would that be to complicated for them?

I am dreading the day my kids are older I have tough choices to make. :(

[Kat_Momof3]

what about ride safer vests?? I mean, this is assuming the TAs are there, but they would work with the short seats, the lap-only belts, and wouldnt be too expensive, either.

OH... they're also portable... the kids can wear them the whole time, even, if need be.

[Ahzryn]

I'll check, but from what I've seen 15 passenger vans rarely have LATCH or tethers, since by weight they are exempt from the regulations for passenger vehicles :(

[Mommyto2]

I'll check, but from what I've seen 15 passenger vans rarely have LATCH or tethers, since by weight they are exempt from the regulations for passenger vehicles :(

I think it vest can be used with out a tether, if it is with a shoulderbelt, but then again you are back in the position of putting another child in the lap only belt.

:(

[tanyaandallie]

I am not sure I agree that hiring a stranger is more dangerous than riding in a lap only belt. You can interview, ask for references, etc. There are risks to both but seems to me if you are careful with who you hire, the risk of a child being involved in an accident is higher. There are no guarentees when hiring someone to take care of your kids but I guess I'd rather take the chance with a sitter than put my kids on the road not properly restrained.

Hopefully these folks will be willing to work with you. Perhaps they can hold hbb provided by you and put them in the van when they pick your girls up. No install issues with a booster.

I'm also wondering what is statistically safer. A child in a lap only belt or a child in a lbb with no head restraint. I would think that a child in a lbb with the lap and shoulder belts positioned properly would be safer even without a head restraint than a lap only belt or than a l/s with no booster. But not sure.

[brooklynsmommy]

If it is a newer 15 passenger van, I know that Ford has LATCH in all the center lap belt positions. I think the vest would be a great idea! that way you wouldn't be placing one of the other children in a lap belt. It would be nice if they would get these for all the center lap belt positions. Or what about the 86-Y?

[NannyMom]

ok, I'm glad this came up! I had no idea these vans were so unsafe! THe summer camp my charges are going to use these vans. FOrtunately my charges are am only, and don't need to be transported unless there's a thunder storm (outdoor camp on soccer fields). I had been leaving a HBB and NBB when rain was expected. Now I know to only leave 2 HBBs. I've told my 8y/o safety girl to refuse to sit in a lap only belt. I'm glad this is their last week of camp.....

[rosey2007]

Maybe you could go through a babysitting angency where they do background checks and make sure that the people coming out to help you have their certifications. I think that you get to see how the children take to the care giver in your home before you leave them alone. Anyway, I totally understand your feelings on leaving your children with anyone. I took care of the elderly for awhile(in their homes) and wondered what those people must think about me being there. Good luck to you in whatever you choose.

[Unregistered]

I am in the same position. The ride safer vest can be used with a lap belt if there is a tether and the tether should be used for children under 6. The seat back has to be higher than the top of their ear.

I have the vest and may have to send our son in it without the tether. I don't know if they have them or not. I figure although not ideal it is better than no restraint at all.

I am really hoping they have the tether....

[4boysmom]

can a classmate bring them to the daycare?

[safeinthecar]

*Assuming a hbb, vest, or 5 pt harness is not an option*

A lap-only belt would be less safe than a nbb without head support in a l/s belt ( head injury likely in lap-only belt. Head injury prevention trumps neck injury prevention )

However, if the option to use a nbb with a l/s belt and no head support exists, the the option to use the l/s belt WITHOUT the nnb also exists and would ultimately be the best option in this case. ( neck injury prevention trumps abdominal injury prevention )

That being said, I would be looking for alternate arrangements,