US car seat conforms to EU?

[Unregistered]

Hello!
We reside in England but will be visiting California for 2 weeks. My youngest son (9m) will need to get the next size car seat in a few months regardless. So... should we rent a car seat while on holiday and then buy one here in the UK, or is there a car seat we could purchase in the US and then bring back with us? Obviously, it would need to apply to EU regs if we brought it back...
Many thanks!
Jill

[Adventuredad]

Hi there,

I would not recommend buying a US car seat to bring back. A
US car seat would be illegal to use since it's not EU approved. That would personally not bother me if the level of safety was increased but the US seats don't offer any any extra protection. Crash tests in EU and US are very similar, being approved is mostly a financial and strategic issue for a company.

You might know this already but your son should be rear facing for as long as possible. If possible until 4-5 years of age. I currently reside in Sweden and recommend the great Swedish car seats which most often can handle rear facing until 55 lbs (25 kilo). That's the absolute safest way for your son to travel until he moves over to a booster or larger harnessed seat.

My son has been using the Britax Hi-Way until 4+ years but there are other sets which are equally good (or maybe better?). Brand is not so important. Brio, Britax, and Akta are the most common brands in Sweden and the seats are of course EU approved. Some can be purchased at select places in UK or you can make arrangements (with me or someone else) to buy one from Sweden.

[Anja59]

Hi there,

very interesting topic. I did recently buy a Canadian car seat (Graco Snugride) for our airplane trip back to Germany. We won't be able to use this seat in Germany, because it is not approved to German regulations. So I'm not sure yet what we will do with this seat after the use. We won't fly back, so I have no idea... Any recommendations?
Another question to you, adventuredad: In the last German crashtest the AKTRA Graco Duologic got the best notes in the class 0+ / 1 up to 18kg. Problem is, this seat isn't available in Germany (I have no idea, why they actually tested it, if one can't buy it... :confused: :thumbsdown:). Do you have any idea, how much this seat is in Sweden? My Swedish is not that good... :shrug-shoulders::whistle: :D It is the only one, that has an Isofix base, and I would like to let my daughter ride rearfacing as long as possible. :thumbsup:

Thanks

Anja

[Adventuredad]

Hola,

May I first say how deeply offended I am that you don't speak Swedish:whistle::ROTFLMAO::love:

I had a Graco Snugride as well when my kids were little. I would not recommend selling it on Ebay etc. to someone in the Canada since shipping will be expensive. My understanding, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, it that special rules apply to military personnel. They are allowed to use car seats from their own country so selling to some military base might be an alternative. Is your seat approved only in Canada? Not sure how many Canadians are over in Germany but it's worth a look. Maybe ask on this board?

Car seats in Germany, oh dear, don't get me started:mad: I've spent lots of time there, was down 5 long weekends this summer and the availability of car seats is really pathetic. Knowledge is also poor, no one has ever heard of rf past 12 months. So I love you for looking at Swedish seats which let you rf forever (well, at least for 4-5 years:D):thumbsup::thumbsup:

The Akta Duologic (http://www.babyland.se/bakatvand-bilstol_cgi2010_mid201.aspx) is expensive and retails for about $580 (370 Euro or 590 Cad). The link is to a retail store here in Sweden which has a decent selection. Divide all prices in SEK with 6 and you have dollar (USD) amount.

Personally, I would much rather buy a Britax Multi Tech which retails for the same price. The Duo Logic can also only handle rf until 40 lbs while most other chairs can handle 55 lbs. As I mentioned, my seat is a Britax Hi-Way which is great and a lot cheaper. Retail around $365 and rf until 55 lbs.

The car seat tests in Germany should be taken with a grain of salt (like most tests). The Germans are well known for not liking rf seats for some reason despite the superior safety features.

ISOFIX does make the chair easier to install but I would not be too hung up on that. And seats are also much more expensive since the demand is relatively limited so far. I don't use ISOFIX and using the seatbelt is equally safe with a correctly installed seat. Plus, you will be able to rf much longer (55 lbs) without ISOFIX. Is there a particular reason for wanting to use ISOFIX except the simpler install?

If you do want to stick with ISOFIX, Britax Fixway is another alternative and retails around $420 but only rf until 40 lbs.

Please let me know if I can answer any more questions. Have a great weekend!

[Anja59]

Hola,

May I first say how deeply offended I am that you don't speak Swedish:whistle::ROTFLMAO::love:


I'm sorry... :o :love:

Just for you to understand: We are going back to Germany at the end of August. We were in Canada for a 2-years contract, which expires now. So we will use the car seat in Germany, not in Canada.
Why Isofix? First of all, my car is equipped with Isofix (Fiat Stilo from 2004). And as far as I understand, with an Isofix base the car seat is much less likely to tip over (RF-one) in case of a frontal crash. This makes sense to me, because most Isofix-bases have kind of a foot, which reaches down to the bottom of the car. And its much easier to install, but that is not the main reason.

I would like to let Leila (my daughter) ride rear facing for as long es possible. Are the car seats you can buy in the EU all approved to be used in Germany? Honestly I have no Idea...

Are there any tests around the EU, which are more independent than the ADAC-one? For the first time in Germany I purchased the Recaro Young profi Plus, the winner of the last ADAC-Test in its category. But this obe is only up to 13kg as well... :confused:

Thank you very much and greetings to Sweden

Anja

[Anja59]

Sorry, I have another question: How do RF seats perform in case sombody hits your car from behind? I have only found tests for front crashes...

Regards

Anja

[Adventuredad]

i was just kidding about the Swedish:whistle: There is no safety difference between ISOFIX and using the seatbelt if the seat is installed correctly. the seat will not tip over more easily without ISOFIX. Many of the non-ISOFIX seats do have the "foot" you're talking abut. The Multi Tech and Hi-Way I'm using myself. The purpose of the foot is so that the seat can be installed in a more flexible way. Seats without a foot are simply leaned against the dashboard ( front seat installs are very common in Sweden) or against the rear of the front seat.

Al seats in EU are EU certified and safe, Swedish seats are also EU (ECE R44 ) certified and considered the best available with a large margin because of the opportunity to rear face your child until 4-5 years of age. Seats are of course legally allowed in Germany as well.

A 12 month old child is 5 times safer riding rear facing than forward facing. That means in 100 crashes 92 kids riding rf will walk away fine and 8 will die or be seriously injured. 60 of the forward facing children will walk away fine and 40 will die or be seriously injured. It's a big difference but the safety benefit decreases somewhat with age because of children's body development.

There is no disadvantage with rear facing a child. The stats I'm mentoing are in frontal crashes. In side crashes, rear facing is much safer than ff but I don't have a number. If hit from behind, a very low percentage event, rear facing is considered as safe as ff.

Where are you located in Germany.? I've spend lots of time the past three years in Bochum area and in the early 90's I was often in the Muenster area

[Anja59]

Hi,

I understood that you were kidding... Even if English is my second lenguage... :D ;)

All recent German crash tests didn't involve RF seats for children over 13kg. So its hard to find a seat thats tested, so you van choose from a couple of models. I know its the safest way to let the child ride RF, I have contact with another mother, the Baby is about 7 or 8 moth old and rides FF, because it didn't feel comfortable RF anymore... There simply is no choice of RF seats for bigger children, I know Concord has one thats up to 4 years, but it didn't really perform well in the test it was involved. Are any recent test around you know about? It makes totally sense to let the child ride RF, because the neck muscles are not strong enough to hold the quite heavy had (in proportion the head is quite compared to the rest of the body)
I know that Sweden is very up-to-date in terms of car safety. So I really appreciate your advice. I just was on the Britax Homepage, I really like their models, especially the Hi Way and the Fix way. To bad both of them are not available in Germany. Römer Germany has totally different products... :thumbsdown: :mad: Do you have any idea, where I could buy one of those Britax seats? One picture of the Fixway really impressed me:
http://www.britax.se/bilder/bilstolar/fixway/Baksatekomplett2.jpg
With that I don't have to worry about someone crashing in the back... :eek:

For the first couple of moth we will be located in Wuppertal, if you have been in Bochum you might know it. Its 30km away from Düsseldorf. After that we don't know, it depends where my husband is going to get a job.
Where about in Sweden are you? And have you ever seen a real elk? :D
Best,

Anja

[Adventuredad]

I have seen elk's many times. Last time was a couple of weeks ago up at our summer place. (http://www.adventuredad.com/archives/weekend-video-a-piece-of-heaven/) An elk walked out on the road just 20 m. ahead of us... Kids loved it!

Sweden has an unbelievable safety record for children, much becuase of rf seats but also because 95% of kids ride restrained while in cars. All Britax seats are installed similarly to the Fixway, with the anchors on bottom. Few seats do have the ISOFIX though. You can also install it in your front seat (airbag off please!), it's equally safe.

As far as I know, the "good" rf seats are not sold in Germany. They are like many European countries way behind in safety thinking for kids. If you want help with getting a seat from here I can assit you. Just send me a PM or contact me via my site (http://www.adventuredad.com/)

All seats which are certified are safe, there are plenty of tests but most of the Swedish seats are naturally tested in Sweden...... I'll have a look and see what I can find.

I do know Wuppertal, I'm currently in Stockholm. Where I've also seen elk:D

[Anja59]

I have seen elk's many times. Last time was a couple of weeks ago up at our summer place. (http://www.adventuredad.com/archives/weekend-video-a-piece-of-heaven/) An elk walked out on the road just 20 m. ahead of us... Kids loved it!

Sweden has an unbelievable safety record for children, much becuase of rf seats but also because 95% of kids ride restrained while in cars. All Britax seats are installed similarly to the Fixway, with the anchors on bottom. Few seats do have the ISOFIX though. You can also install it in your front seat (airbag off please!), it's equally safe.

As far as I know, the "good" rf seats are not sold in Germany. They are like many European countries way behind in safety thinking for kids. If you want help with getting a seat from here I can assit you. Just send me a PM or contact me via my site (http://www.adventuredad.com/)

All seats which are certified are safe, there are plenty of tests but most of the Swedish seats are naturally tested in Sweden...... I'll have a look and see what I can find.

I do know Wuppertal, I'm currently in Stockholm. Where I've also seen elk:D

Thats a really nice summer place... :eek: :cool: I'd love to see a real elk... Here in Canada I was out of luck, I saw some Canadian elk (those are deers), but I've never seen a moose (equals elk in Sweden).

Yesterday in the evening I found out, that you can buy the Fixway in Germany! Volvo retailers (who else... :rolleyes:) sell it! So this will be the next bigger seat for Leila, thats for sure. I wish more parents would know about this opportunity, I've also seen quite shocking videos about what happens with the head and neck during a frontal crash... And the Britax seat (379€) is just 50€ more (including the Isofix base) than test winning FF seat... People just have to know it. It's really too bad, that there isn't a bigger demand for those RF seats. :thumbsdown:
I know that Germany is quite behind Swedish safety standards, and it is sometimes really shocking to see how infants are secured in cars. :thumbsdown: Test results would be great, if possible in English? As I've mentioned, my Swedish is not that good... With a bit of imagination I managed to look at the Britax website, though.. :D :cool:

Best regards from Ottawa

Anja

[Adventuredad]

I'll have a look among my links and see what I can find. Glad you found the seat in Germany. Really awesome you're considering rfing your son for a couple of extra years.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[southpawboston]

an interesting tidbit: my recaros all say they conform to ECE R44 as well as US FMVSS213 in the owner's manuals, yet the stickers on the seats only have the US certifications. i'm guessing that they designed the seats to pass both certifications, but chose to label the seats according to the market in which they were sold. so, practically speaking, they should be fine in the EU, yet legally it would still be dicey and i wouldn't do it.

[Anja59]

an interesting tidbit: my recaros all say they conform to ECE R44 as well as US FMVSS213 in the owner's manuals, yet the stickers on the seats only have the US certifications. i'm guessing that they designed the seats to pass both certifications, but chose to label the seats according to the market in which they were sold. so, practically speaking, they should be fine in the EU, yet legally it would still be dicey and i wouldn't do it.

I had fun with this in Canada, too. The Graco Snugride is an American model, but has different labeling for Canada. I tried to get the sticker for the airplane, but there is no chance. The seats produced for the US-market have this sticker, the same seat for Canada doesn't habe it... Now I found it in the manual, and this should be enough...

If the Recaro is conform to ECE R44 (which one, ECE R44.03 or 04, all others are not longer allowed in Europe as far as I know), you might contact Recaro to get such a sticker...

Best

Anja

[Unregistered]

I'd buy one in the US and bring it back. US car seats are so superior to the models available in the UK. The only models I've found in the UK that I'd consider using are Britax ones and they're ludicrously expensive. My mother lives in the UK and we're in the US. I bought a seat here and mailed it over to her for us to use while we're over there because it was so much cheaper than buying one in the UK.

[lil96]

an interesting tidbit: my recaros all say they conform to ECE R44 as well as US FMVSS213 in the owner's manuals, yet the stickers on the seats only have the US certifications. i'm guessing that they designed the seats to pass both certifications, but chose to label the seats according to the market in which they were sold. so, practically speaking, they should be fine in the EU, yet legally it would still be dicey and i wouldn't do it.
I think I remember hearing about this somewhere, but I don't see how it could be right as there are some differences in the standards. Is this an older model, I think I remember hearing about it, looking into it, realizing it was an older model or a model for older kids and didn't actually have the 5 pt harness or something. Some of the difference, isofix and latch are very similar, but not the same. Isofix is hard and has set distance, where as Latch is loose belts to attach to various width seats. In the ECE standard, there shouldn't be a chest clip, so the child can get out fast if needed. ECE standars require a puzzle lock, and the US standards don't require (but I think that they can have it).
But if you keep the manual with you at all time (which ECE says has to be in several languages) then you could argue it.

[lenats31]

I'd buy one in the US and bring it back. US car seats are so superior to the models available in the UK. The only models I've found in the UK that I'd consider using are Britax ones and they're ludicrously expensive. My mother lives in the UK and we're in the US. I bought a seat here and mailed it over to her for us to use while we're over there because it was so much cheaper than buying one in the UK.

No, they are not safer - just different. Some US car seats group 1 have a top tether. Most European car seats do not have this. Instead a still growing number of seats for this age group have a "foot prop" that goes from the base at the front of the seat to the floor. It performs the same job as top tether. britax makes these seats too.

Then we have the large RF seats that are twin tethered. The vast majority of these seats have the foot prop too. A few of these are available in the UK . The Britax ones are available at Incarsafetycentre in Milton Keynes. They RF to 40 or 55 lbs depending on the seat.

http://www.britax.co.uk/index.php?option=com_britax&task=showproduct&id=44&groupid=7&Itemid=31

This is not the only seat with ISOFIX + foot prop here

http://www.incarsafetycentre.co.uk/shop/special.html

You are right about the price tags tough. I got the Regent for 357 dollars incl. VAT and Shipping via USPS International Express.

Here, I would have had to pay like 1400 dollars for the Britax Traveller Plus seat:eek::thumbsdown:

Lena

[southpawboston]

I think I remember hearing about this somewhere, but I don't see how it could be right as there are some differences in the standards. Is this an older model, I think I remember hearing about it, looking into it, realizing it was an older model or a model for older kids and didn't actually have the 5 pt harness or something. Some of the difference, isofix and latch are very similar, but not the same. Isofix is hard and has set distance, where as Latch is loose belts to attach to various width seats. In the ECE standard, there shouldn't be a chest clip, so the child can get out fast if needed. ECE standars require a puzzle lock, and the US standards don't require (but I think that they can have it).
But if you keep the manual with you at all time (which ECE says has to be in several languages) then you could argue it.

these are new seats: signos, comos, and my slightly older young sport. strange. there do seem to be some incompatibilities between ECE and FMVSS requirements (such as the chest clips). clearly these seats were manufactured for sale in the US, so i don't know why they say they pass ECE-R44.04. :confused: