Why can you not install child safety

[Jennifer]

seats in the back bench of the 1999 Ford E150. We got this van the beginning of May and I just got around to reading that part of the owners manual. It just says not to install any child safety seats in the 3rd row. The 3rd row is a bench seat that seats 3. We have 4 kiddos. And I've put the older 2 back in a booster since getting this van as the seat belts in the back of this conversion van fit them differently than they did in the older conversion van we had.

There are no tether anchors in this van either even though the manual shows them...but then again it is a conversion van. The manual shows them behind both middle captain chairs. Since there weren't any I've moved my 4 1/2 yr old from the Super Elite to the Parkway booster seat.

I know the back bench is different than the van I used to have which was a '94 Ford E150 conversion plus it's a different conversion company.

I was just curious as to why the Ford manual for this van I have now states no safety seats whatsoever are to be used in the rear bench. I also assume that means no booster seats even though we are using high back boosters in the back to help the seat belts fit my older to better.

[Jeanum]

Hmmm, I'm not familiar enough with that van model or its variations to know for certain why the manual would say it's forbidden to use child restraints in the third row, but I did think of one possibly general explanation. By any chance is that third row bench a rear facing row instead of facing the front of the vehicle? If so, there's your answer, because all child restraints, including belt positioning booster seats, are only designed and certified to be used on forward facing vehicle seats. If it's a forward facing third row bench, a call to Ford corporate or a van conversion company that works with E150 vans might help you pin down the explanation. :twocents:

[Jennifer]

Thanks...it does face the front. I'll give them a call and see what they say.

[snowbird25ca]

Being that it's a 1999, it is old enough to have not had to fall under passenger crash testing requirements. I believe it was 2002 (at least in Canada,) that SUV's and minivans had to become compliant with meeting the same types of crash test standards for rear passengers as cars. Until that came into effect, the vans & SUV's were classed as primarily cargo vehicles and didn't have to meet the same standards. Some vehicle manufacturers addressed the lack of rear passenger protection by putting statements in the manuals to not put child restraints in certain positions, so this could be the reason for that statement.

It's still worth calling the vehicle manufacturer to find out more. This would be my guess though based on the year of the vehicle & the changes in regulations that were taking place in that time period. :thumbsup:

[flipper68]

RE top tether: Does the manual state there are ANCHORs or the pre drilled places for the tether anchor to be installed?

Either way, you mentioned it is a conversion van. Do you know if the seats are FORD seats or custom seats. It is very possible that either do not have top tether since it is a '99. Vehicles weren't required to have top tether until 2000 and LATCH in 2002.

I'm familiar with captains chairs in FORD Windstar. Their anchors are basically a slot on the bottom bracket of the seat (toward the drivers side of either seat). They are very poorly marked and until you know where to look/feel, you have to almost stand on your head to find them because they are somewhat under the seat.

[Jennifer]

They are custom seats. The ford manual does state that there ARE top tether anchors...there is nothing in the manual about lower anchors and I did assume it was to old to have lower anchors. The manual tells you how to attach the child seat with the seat belt and then attach the upper anchor.

I've laid on the floor in the van looking for them. there are diagrams in the manual that show where they would be but I've so far found nothing. the seat base is all metal and is a quick release (as in you pull a lever and the captain chair slides out to the side) seat. There is a hole in each base that also has a knob that screws into it. The knob & hole it's screwed into are not mentioned in the manual again b/c they are custom seats from the conversion company. Under the seat it self are the springs and foam you can see that just by looking under the seat and the metal base.

[Gypsy]

Your Super Elite is either expired or close to expiring.

I'd prefer to see your 4YO in a harnessed seat like the Nautilus, which doesn't require a tether.

[Jennifer]

Your Super Elite is either expired or close to expiring.

I'd prefer to see your 4YO in a harnessed seat like the Nautilus, which doesn't require a tether.

I'll look at the Nautilus. My Super Elite was manufactured at the end of August 2003. So it's got another year left on it. I've got to make a run to BRU anyway since we are having problems with my other son's, who is 7, parkway. The head rest doesn't stay locked into place. It for the past few days has been randomly falling down onto his shoulders. I pull it back up but the part you squeeze doesn't release to lock in place. I want to get another booster seat for him.

Nathan my 4 1/2 yr old will be 5 on 11/3. He's 49 lbs. My 7 year old (just turned 7 on 7/15) is 60 lbs. They were both weighed last week at the dr office.

[Unregistered]

I'd prefer to see your 4YO in a harnessed seat like the Nautilus, which doesn't require a tether.

How does the Nautilus compare to the Marathon. Nathan also has a marathon that he doesn't fit into ht wise. His shoulders are way over the top harness slots. That was why we moved him to his brothers Super Elite.

[Jeanum]

I'll look at the Nautilus. My Super Elite was manufactured at the end of August 2003. So it's got another year left on it. I've got to make a run to BRU anyway since we are having problems with my other son's, who is 7, parkway. The head rest doesn't stay locked into place. It for the past few days has been randomly falling down onto his shoulders. I pull it back up but the part you squeeze doesn't release to lock in place. I want to get another booster seat for him.


Super Elites were manufactured from 2001 - 2002, though, and they also were recalled according to the recall list at http://www.carseat.org/Recalls/179NP.pdf

Another member recently had difficulty with the Parkway's head rest falling down (not a rare problem, actually). In her case, she noticed the Parkway's cover had shifted just enough to prevent the part holding up the headrest from locking fully into place, and it might be a similar issue with yours to double check. If it's not the case, you can contact Britax about it. The Parkway is discontinued but there might be something Britax can do to help you out. :)

How does the Nautilus compare to the Marathon. Nathan also has a marathon that he doesn't fit into ht wise. His shoulders are way over the top harness slots. That was why we moved him to his brothers Super Elite.

The Nautilus has approx. 18.5" top shoulder harness slots, taller than the Marathon's both in measurement terms and how kids tend to fit. My now 6.5 year old oldest daughter was too tall for a Marathon at approx. age 4.5 but could still fit heightwise with her shoulders below the top harness slots in a Nautilus when I tried her in one for size at Walmart several months ago. Kids tend to fit taller in the Nautilus when it's installed in the vehicle compared to trying it on for size uninstalled, though.

[Jennifer]

Super Elites were manufactured from 2001 - 2002, though, and they also were recalled according to the recall list at http://www.carseat.org/Recalls/179NP.pdf



sorry about that it is a Husky. I had 2 super elites that yes were recalled and eventually I replaced them with the 2 Husky's. It is a husky with a DOM of Aug 2003.

I'll check out the Nautilus tomorrow.
I do also want to see if we can get the top tether anchors installed. Then I could use my husky for another year.

[Jeanum]

Ah, a Husky with another year left before it expires, got it. :thumbsup:

I did some LATCH manual checking to see what it lists for tether anchors in the '99 Ford E150 Econoline van. The '99 model is listed as being retrofittable with top tether anchors for the second and third row benches, which is good news if you have the original Ford bench seats in your van, but not so good news for the custom conversion seats you have. This is because the anchor points for installing those tether anchors are on the original Ford bench seats, which have drilled holes under the upholstery in the rear rail of the seat cushion frame for each of the second row and third row seating positions. Since your van was converted and has custom seats now, you apparently no longer have the original Ford seats with those anchor points on them for retrofitting tether anchors. :( If by any chance the van can have the Ford bench seats reinstalled, the Ford tether anchor retrofit part number is F7UZ 15613D74-AA for each second row and third row bench seating position, and Ford dealers are supposed to retrofit tether anchors for free under Ford Program R7C.

[flipper68]

The '99 model is listed as being retrofittable with top tether anchors for the second and third row benches, which is good news if you have the original Ford bench seats in your van, but not so good news for the custom conversion seats you have. This is because the anchor points for installing those tether anchors are on the original Ford bench seats, which have drilled holes under the upholstery in the rear rail of the seat cushion frame for each of the second row and third row seating positions. Since your van was converted and has custom seats now, you apparently no longer have the original Ford seats with those anchor points on them for retrofitting tether anchors.

I was afraid the "conversion" would be the problem. Conversion vans are intended to be mini RVs (and we all know how passenger safe THOSE are :eek:) with a focus on comfort.

Apparently, they are not held to the same safety regulations as manufacturers. :thumbsdown:

I would be on the phone with the conversion company and the dealer 'cause to me, "No child restraint" would mean no booster either.

Here's hoping you can swap out seats or trade the vehicle in for something that will meet the needs of your family.

[Jennifer]

I would be on the phone with the conversion company and the dealer 'cause to me, "No child restraint" would mean no booster either.

Here's hoping you can swap out seats or trade the vehicle in for something that will meet the needs of your family.

I agree...we'll have to figure something out....especially since we are talking about adding on to our family. With this van I keep thinking where the heck will we add a 5th child!? Right now it's still in the talking phase since dh will have to have a reversal and all that stuff LOL.

[christineka]

You can get the tether anchors retrofitted by your ford dealer for free. The service centers often don't know about tether retrofitting. I called ford and the car seat person emailed me a document to take to the service center. They installed them for free. My vehicles also have tether anchors in the manual, but there weren't any until ford put them in. Even though it is a conversion van, the frame and such are ford and ford can put in the anchors.

[TerisBoys]

You can get the tether anchors retrofitted by your ford dealer for free. The service centers often don't know about tether retrofitting. I called ford and the car seat person emailed me a document to take to the service center. They installed them for free. My vehicles also have tether anchors in the manual, but there weren't any until ford put them in. Even though it is a conversion van, the frame and such are ford and ford can put in the anchors.

But in her van, the original anchor positions are ON the factory installed seats, which she no longer has.

Would a heavy-duty anchor from EZ-On work techs?

[christineka]

Sure they aren't on the floor? That seams weird to have anchors on seats.

[Jeanum]

Not according to what I found about her van's original vehicle seats in the LATCH manual and posted earlier in the thread. While some vans/SUVs/wagons do have tether anchors on the vehicle floor, tether anchor locations can vary from van/SUV/wagon model to model. It's really not unusual for tether anchors to be located on the vehicle seat frame or seatback. Some models have tether anchors on the ceiling above the cargo area.

[Jennifer]

So I ended up getting him an Apex. That doesn't need the top tether correct? I read the manual and noted in one spot where it talked about installing with the lap shoulder belt and if not using the top tether to safely store it behind the seat.

I couldn't find the nautilus and where to try it out. I thought our BRU had it and they don't. But he fits fine in the Apex with a good inch + of harness room. I'd say we get a year out of the harness....providing we don't have to tether...it's installed tight as can be doesn't move at all side to side or when pulling it foward. Actually the van moves when I try to pull on the seat just like every other seat I've installed in my vehicle.

[Jennifer]

Just a ? about the headrest...should I leave it where it's at or move it down some?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v51/jeowen/DSC00645.jpg

[Jeanum]

Congrats on the new seat. :) Right, the Apex does not require a top tether anchor. The Apex does require a vehicle seatback or vehicle headrest behind it that's at least as tall as the top of your son's ears to provide proper support and whiplash protection, and I can't quite tell for certain from the picture if the vehicle seatback or vehicle headrest is high enough behind him. The Apex's own headrest's height is probably fine the way you have it currently. It looks like it would overlap the shoulder harness slots if you lowered it IMHO.

[Jennifer]

The vehicle seat back is almost up to the top of his head. I still have that extra cushion in there that came with the seat so if I took that out there's be more room as well.

[Jeanum]

Sounds good. :)