Need some pics of Temporary Top Tethering

[canadiangie]

Hi,

Does anyone have any pics of TTT? Specifically when you use the lap portion of the seatbelt rather than the buckle tongue? (although pics of the tongue method are good too, I *know* this is a case where the tether will be connected to the lap portion of the seatbelt).

And, does anyone know if it's okay to use a locking clip on the seatbelt that's being used as a temporary anchor? Specifally an older vehicle that has lap/shoulder belts (no midde lap belt or I'd use it tongue style) that don't lock?

I'm worried about using a locking clip if it's a projectile (which my mind tells me it might be in instances of TTT).

So, anyone??

[Defrost]

I know there's been pictures posted, but I can't seem to find the thread. Funny how "tether" "seat belt" and "3rd row" pull up so many results in the search! ;)

I want to say it was scatterbunny that posted the pics, if that helps you look.

[Judi]

Gotta have them somewhere. Going to go look now.

[Judi]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/DallasOregon/IMG_0286-1.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m216/DallasOregon/IMG_0287-1.jpg

[Defrost]

Very cool!

But now I'm wondering what the other seat is tethered to?

[kidrepair]

I'm trying to figure out what seat that is, it looks huge but not quite like a Regent.

[TerisBoys]

It's a Roosevelt.

[azgirl71]

Very cool!

But now I'm wondering what the other seat is tethered to?

The othe seat is tethered to the TA. If I recall correctly the Roosevelts tether strap wa to short to reach the TA and that is why they had to use the seatbelt.

[Judi]

Yep. The only tethers in a 99 Ody are all the way it the back. With the MA and the Husky, we got both to work with the tethers that were there. When we sinced to the Regent, it still worked, but the Roosevelt didn't.

[CDNTech]

No pictures, but some info...

Lap/shoulder belt that does not lock... you *must* use a locking clip and clip the tether anchor to the buckle tongue. The locking clip is your only method of keeping the seatbelt locked until a collision occurs and the ELR seatbelt locks on it's own.

Lap belt... clip tether anchor to the buckle tongue and pull the tail end of the webbing until it's tight.

Lap belt with ALR (no tail)... buckle and clip tether anchor around seatbelt webbing in the center of the seat.

[canadiangie]

Lap/shoulder belt that does not lock... you *must* use a locking clip and clip the tether anchor to the buckle tongue. The locking clip is your only method of keeping the seatbelt locked until a collision occurs and the ELR seatbelt locks on it's own.

Thank you Jen. That's exactly what I wanted to know. By default this means using a locking clip is not a projectile issue, correct. I totally understand that you must use one (or else the belt isn't a fixed anchor) but was worried about it flying off on impact.

FWIW, I *could* have gone out and installed one of my seats ff, and taken my own pics but would have had to take out the barrier (looks like: #####) thing between the 2nd row and cargo space. Too lazy for that of course, so came here. :p



Thanks so much ladies,

[azgirl71]

[B][I] By default this means using a locking clip is not a projectile issue, correct. I totally understand that you must use one (or else the belt isn't a fixed anchor) but was worried about it flying off on impact.

Locking clips are generally not strong enough to withstand the forces of a crash. Anyway, it sounded like you may be thinking it would not come off and I wanted to make sure you knew it is a possibilty that it could fly off in a crash.

[canadiangie]

No, I know it probably will fly off in a crash. My question is this...

is this a situation where by default of NEEDING the locking clip to be there, we worry less about the risk of it being a projectile and more about the possibility of a ff seat going un-tethered if a TTT wasn't being done?

The back story...

I'm in Canada. Friends of ours are taking a '90 Ford F150 to the city to p/u some furniture. They have a ff Radian. No t/a's in the truck. They are going to have their Radian in the front middle seat installed with a lap-only belt (no airbags). There is no middle seatbelt in the backseat at all -- just two o/b non-locking lap/shoulder belts. They will be TTT'ing to the rear driver's side lap/shoulder belt. Obviously a locking clip will be needed to limit the length of the seatbelt aka 'fix' it in place.

Being in Canada all my life where top tethering is mandatory, and dealing with car seats since looong before factory installed t/a's were the norm I've TTT many times before. With that said, the idea that a locking clip could be a projectile is something that I admit is sort of new to me (like I've only known that for the past maybe 2-3yrs or so).

So now that I know a locking clip could be/is a potential projectile it got me wondering about using one while TTT.


Does that help?

[An Aurora]

is this a situation where by default of NEEDING the locking clip to be there, we worry less about the risk of it being a projectile and more about the possibility of a ff seat going un-tethered if a TTT wasn't being done?



The Roosevelt requires a top tether at all times. A locking clip on a belt in this situation if preferable to the seat not being tethered.

[azgirl71]

In the situation and it is only temorary for the trip I would use the locking clip since it is Canadain law you must top tether. I would not do it on a regualar basis.

[unityco]

Sorry to hijack...

Is it preferable to tether to the belt clip as opposed to the webbing? (When I've done it in the past, I've used a buckled-up lap-only belt and put the tether hook around the webbing.)

[CDNTech]

So now that I know a locking clip could be/is a potential projectile it got me wondering about using one while TTT.

It's not likely that the locking clip would fly off. More than likely, it would stay in place or bend. Top tethering being mandatory aside, I would still top tether for the benefits, especially considering the seat is in the front.

If this was needed as a more long term situation, I'd look into getting a proper top tether retrofitted or a different vehicle. :o

[canadiangie]

cool. :thumbsup:

[BW1426]

Because of the projectile fear of the locking clip, I'd personally use a belt shortening clip as a locking clip as they're stronger and the chance of it bending and flying off are lower.

[An Aurora]

Because of the projectile fear of the locking clip, I'd personally use a belt shortening clip as a locking clip as they're stronger and the chance of it bending and flying off are lower.

It's not an approved use of the BSC. I'd stick with the LC. :twocents:

[canadiangie]

Hmmm.

I know that you can use a BSC in place of a LC... (if say you didn't have access to a LC and for some odd reason you had easier access to a BSC instead... which, at least for me has never been the case)

and I know you canNot use a LC in place of a BSC...

I hope some other techs chime in on this. Not that I have easy access to a BSC or intend to use one when I install my friends seat (yes I'm installing it, she's 9mos pg). But I'd sure like to know one way or the other.

[An Aurora]

Well, that is true. It is thicker and heavier, maybe it would hold better. Or maybe it would fly off and be a bigger thicker heavier projectile :confused:.

[azgirl71]

You can use a BSC in place of the LC. It is much stronger than a LC and hard to find. In the states you can get them from Toyota and Ford.

You can never use a LC in place of a BSC since it is much weaker.

This is per the current cirriculum.

Technically neither would be "approved" to be used to lock a seatbelt in order to tether a car seat to it :twocents:.

[azgirl71]

Well, that is true. It is thicker and heavier, maybe it would hold better. Or maybe it would fly off and be a bigger thicker heavier projectile :confused:.

Posible yes, but a lot less likely. BSC are designed to stay in place. I do understand where you are coming from though.

[joolsplus3]

If the Belt Shortening Clip is installed as it's meant to, with the belt pulled all the way out and the second loop of webbing in it (completely different installation from a locking clip), then it won't fly off.

[An Aurora]

If the Belt Shortening Clip is installed as it's meant to, with the belt pulled all the way out and the second loop of webbing in it (completely different installation from a locking clip), then it won't fly off.

Very true!

The only thing is that LCs are readily available whereas BSC aren't so much.

[skaterbabscpst]

I think in that case I would shorten the tether strap as much as I could, and then attach the LC. That way if it DID pop off, it wouldn't fly quite as far. Maybe. :confused:

[joolsplus3]

Well, actually, you should never, ever use a locking clip in this situation. Someone just posted a picture of it being done from Canada once and it's spread like wildfire. I asked Deborah Stewart about it (editor of Safe Ride News, publisher of the LATCH manual) she said that would never be an acceptable solution. Really, there's usually so much space you can pull the belt all the way out, or it has a locking mechanism that works.

[An Aurora]

Really, there's usually so much space you can pull the belt all the way out, or it has a locking mechanism that works.

Right, I remember tethering a TP in a 99 Ody like in the OP, and you could lock the belt.

What if you had locking latchplates though? :confused:

[scatterbunny]

I've tethered to a lapbelt with a locking latchplate. In both methods (buckled or unbuckled) the latchplate locked. With a lap/shoulder belt, I think I would buckle the belt and tether to the lap portion. That should work just fine.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/scatterbunny/Fisher%20Price%20Futura%202005%20to%202007/82d8ee86.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/scatterbunny/Fisher%20Price%20Futura%202005%20to%202007/787b0489.jpg

[An Aurora]

Right, but not if the rear seat was removed.

[scatterbunny]

Right, but not if the rear seat was removed.

:rolleyes: :o I guess I missed that part. :o

[joolsplus3]

Right, I remember tethering a TP in a 99 Ody like in the OP, and you could lock the belt.

What if you had locking latchplates though? :confused:
I'd still think there'd be enough room to pull it ALL the way out to meet up with the back of the CR in most cases? Or I just wouldn't tether until I could get a belt shortening clip, honestly, if there's just nothing else that'll work.

[tumblebug]

Wow, you gals know all sorts of tricks don't you? That is amazing...

[CDNTech]

I'd still think there'd be enough room to pull it ALL the way out to meet up with the back of the CR in most cases? Or I just wouldn't tether until I could get a belt shortening clip, honestly, if there's just nothing else that'll work.

Really? We're not allowed to use a locking clip? Can you tell me the reasoning/explanation of why not?

I'm 99% sure that I would still have belt left over in my Grand Caravan even if I had the buckle come all the way to the child restraint... so in that case we need to use a BSC, right?

[joolsplus3]

A locking clip is just not strong enough to hold the belt in a crash... this is completely not what it was ever conceived of to do...it's not strong enough, it will more than likely fly off, it's just NOT ok. A belt shortening clip is actually designed to HOLD in a crash, it IS the mechanism that replaces a latchplate or retractor. A locking clip just has a very minor job of holding a lapbelt tight under everyday driving conditions, it's not good for anything else.

[Mama!]

I'm bumping this b/c a freind needs to know if she can do this with her Britax TP in a very temporary situation.

Her van is being repaired, so she's down to her dh's 2 door cavalier with a large SN child in a Britax TP and a 3 yo.

3yo can easily sit in back , but the getting the older SN child (9 yo, 60 lbs) in and out of the back is impossible. So the TP would have to go in the front seat, pushed back away from the airbag. Tethering it to the back seatbelt is her only option for TT.

So I mentioned TTT and wanted to make sure that TTT the TP is 100% ok since she really doesn't have a choice. I shared info from this thread to give her an idea.

So is it ok?

[scatterbunny]

Yes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Does the Cavalier have locking latchplates or are they ALR?

[skaterbabscpst]

It's 100% okay, this thread was more about (IMO) using a locking clip if the belt didn't lock after attaching the tether.

[Mama!]

It's 100% okay, this thread was more about (IMO) using a locking clip if the belt didn't lock after attaching the tether.Thank you!

Yes, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Does the Cavalier have locking latchplates or are they ALR?

I'm not sure, trying to find out.

[skaterbabscpst]

What year is it again? I think it was around '99 when they switched to switchable retractors.

[Pixels]

No pictures, but some info...

Lap/shoulder belt that does not lock... you *must* use a locking clip and clip the tether anchor to the buckle tongue. The locking clip is your only method of keeping the seatbelt locked until a collision occurs and the ELR seatbelt locks on it's own.

Lap belt... clip tether anchor to the buckle tongue and pull the tail end of the webbing until it's tight.

Lap belt with ALR (no tail)... buckle and clip tether anchor around seatbelt webbing in the center of the seat.Lots of questions here...

Method #1, why does the seatbelt need to be locked pre-crash? Wouldn't the retractor of the belt keep the slack out of the belt? If it's necessary to ensure that there is no slack, and we're not trusting the retractor to do that job, then there could be excessive slack in the shoulder portion of the belt (due to the weight of the male buckle, locking clip, and tether anchor pulling down on it) which would reappear when the locking clip came off during the crash. Would it not make more sense to buckle the belt, use a locking clip, and tether to the middle of the lap portion of the belt?

And method #3, why not just tether to the male buckle? The belt can not get longer, only shorter.

And how do you tether to the webbing? Do you have to get the tether clip all the way around the webbing, or just get the hook on?

[scatterbunny]

Pixels, post #30 in this thread has photos of tethering to a lapbelt, both to the unbuckled latchplate itself, and to the buckled webbing.

[LISmama810]

FWIW, the LATCH Manual says that for a lap-shoulder belt with ELR retractor (in other words, doesn't lock pre-crash), you're supposed to pull the belt all the way out, tether to the part of the webbing specified, and tighten the tether. It says not to use a locking clip. (I would presume you wouldn't use a belt-shortening clip either.)

I guess the idea is that if the belt is pulled all the way out, the tightened tether hook will hold it in place. But what if the belt is too long for that?