True Fit installation comments & pic's thread.

[mommycat]

I just fooled around with mine, and I really like it. I had some comments so I will add them here rather than starting a new thread. I was installing driver's side outboard in an '04 Silverado extended cab with lap/shoulder belt.

- the lockoffs are indeed a little funny to use but they aren't awful

- the FF lockoff hinges, so the red tab is attached to the yellow flap. You have to push the yellow flap down over the belts and manage to fit the tabs on either side of the red flap under a ledge fixed to the seat. I had to fight to fit them in, one side at a time, then push very hard to lower the flap. Part of the trouble was that the round plastic belt stopper thingie on the lap section of my belt happened to end up right on the edge of the lockoff and I had to make the yellow flap push it aside a smidge as I closed it. It could conceivably end up right *in* the lockoff in some vehicles.

- I did get the RF lockoffs to close on both the lap and shoulder portion of the belt. I had to press hard with one hand on the yellow flap, let go of the shoulder belt to switch hands and apply more pressure to the flap while I used my left hand to coax the red tab over the flap. The red part has a groove that rotates onto a flange on the end of the yellow section, so you need to push it closed enough for the groove to engage. Once you get the edge in, you can let go of the yellow section and focus on forcing the red section to rotate the rest of the way until it clicks fully closed. The whole procedure produces much creaking and movement of the red clip, so it does feel a bit like it might break, but it didn't. Once it's tight, it's not going anywhere!

- I had a hard time with the RF lockoffs because there are no deep ridges to guide the seatbelt. As I tightened the belt the lap portion kept sliding towards the bum area, covering the red tabs and resting on the crotch buckle strap. I had to pull it back into position to close the lockoffs. I think this made me allow the belt to loosen a bit while I fiddled but it was still a completely solid install. With the recline somewhat more vertical, the belt was sliding up into the lockoff hinge, instead. Some deeper guides on the ends might have made this less of a hassle.

- There may be a possible install issue RF for long buckle stalks if you want to use the lockoffs. Mine are not particularly long, but I had to twist 3 times, and as it was, the buckle was pretty close to the lockoff. Before twisting, it was *in* the lockoff.

- My 3 year old, 32 lb and 38.5" with approx. 14.5" torso, fits in the seat at the second to top slots, I think both FF and RF - he seems to be right at them? I am not very good at making the call for slightly below/above. He is on the top slots for both his MA and the Radian. He seems to have tons of room to sit with his logs curved along the sides, good for RF.

- My 7.5 month old, who is just under 16 lb and about 28" fits nicely as well. With the baby insert he is on the second slots, though I find the head hugger seems to add too much bulk behind his head and push it forward a bit, and it seems to make tightening properly harder because of the layers moving about. With the baby pad removed he fits very well on the 1st slots. With the harness snugged down well and the chest clip centered at armpit level, I saw no issues with harness slipping either with or without the pad. Someone with a teeny, slim baby may get some harness slipping? The baby pad does seem to improve the fit.

I think I got pretty close to 45 degrees with one pool noodle (and I didn't try all that hard) [ETA: no I didn't it was 34 degrees. But I really wasn't trying particularly.]. Without the noodle, I need to check my recline angle [ETA: 28 degrees]. But the harness adjuster was totally buried in the back seat. It is still possible to access however since it lifts to loosen (like the MA) rather than pushes like the AOE. I would prefer to set the harness tightness, make sure the metal flap is down and then hide the pull strap. I could see an older child figuring out they can grap the strap, pull it, and lean forward to loosen their harness.

[mommycat]

Oh, and it didn't puzzle at all well with my AOE, either RF or FF. The wide part of the seat was at exactly the same location as the widest part of the stupid useless armrests on my FF AOE.

[mommycat]

Thought I would add some pictures:

[mommycat]

And in the truck:
ETA: 34 degrees and 28 degrees (True Fit is allowed to be installed at 35-45 degrees, so picture 1 is as vertical as you would ever install it.)

[mommycat]

I took a picture of the closed lockoffs rearfacing with the pad hauled up. When I installed it RF the second time, I did it with the pad in place. I actually found it pretty simple due to the nice cutouts in the pad at the crotch buckle and over the lockoffs.

[hipmaman]

Cool mommycat!!! :thumbsup:

Being the geek that I am :) I took more pictures this morning, focusing on the areas that have been surfacing since the post yesterday... More pictures here http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008

Specifically, I found 3 distinct markings on my seatbelt webbing http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008/photo#5206216942897603426 I'm now concerned about the 'damaging' of seatbelt through the lock-off rows of teeth.

[mommycat]

Yes, it must be because we are all so super-excited to see this seat come out! :)

I just wanted to point out I edited my "review" post - the pool noodle install was only 34 degrees and the non-noodle install was 28. They both sure looked a lot more reclined to me, but I need a lot more practice, I guess! Even with the 28 degrees I was feeling a bit cramped for space in the driver's seat. I had enough room for little 5'2" me, but I had no extra space to go any farther back, and in order to not be totally vertical, I had to remove the headrest. If I wanted to use this seat RF in the truck it would need to go in the centre (ideally) or behind the passanger. I will try it in the Civic sedan if I get a chance over the weekend.

[hipmaman]

I just wanted to point out I edited my "review" post - the pool noodle install was only 34 degrees and the non-noodle install was 28. They both sure looked a lot more reclined to me, but I need a lot more practice, I guess! Even with the 28 degrees I was feeling a bit cramped for space in the driver's seat. I had enough room for little 5'2" me, but I had no extra space to go any farther back, and in order to not be totally vertical, I had to remove the headrest. If I wanted to use this seat RF in the truck it would need to go in the centre (ideally) or behind the passanger. I will try it in the Civic sedan if I get a chance over the weekend.

Kat, I noticed how upright your driver seat is. Is that how you normally have it?

My Odyssey does better I guess. I don't have pictures of the front seat, but it's at the normal setting more me at 5'6" and dh at 5'11". When the removal headrest is on, it would touch the front driver seat, but without the headrest, there is at least 5-6" inches between the front seat and top of the TF.

It would be interested to see how it fits in your Civic and my old Accord 2-door rf :)

[mommycat]

Kat, I noticed how upright your driver seat is. Is that how you normally have it?

No, it isn't. I had the seat reclined forward to have room to install, and that's just where I put it back to. I drove the truck after I had the non-noodle install in, and while I could have driven that way, I was pretty uncomfortable, so I jumped back out and took the headrest off so I could recline a little more. My DH (a few inches taller than me but not really that tall) tends to have the seat more vertical than me but he puts the seat a little further back, so it would be even worse for him, I would think.

[mommycat]

All right, I couldn't resist. I just tried the '07 Civic sedan. All attempts were on driver's side outboard with seatbelt. I wanted to try center but didn't want to get into removing my Radian, and it wouldn't fit side by side. The Radian is in with LATCH so it's not moved enough to the other side.

The FF install is just beautiful. I had some worries about the lockoff not closing well because the belt was slipping down towards the hinge, especially on the outboard side where the lap section of the belt comes out forward of the seat bite due to contouring. However, I had no problem closing it in the end. It did loosen a tiny bit from where I had it as I tried to align the two sections of belt, but it was still an awesome install, no movement at all.

The RF install makes me a little sad. :( There was no way I could use the lockoffs. The belt was slipping down toward the bum area and I really couldn't see a way to make it stay in the lockoffs and tighten it to my satisfaction at the same time. Some people may install with lockoffs without tightening the belts as much as neurotic little me, and may likely stil get an acceptable install with less than 1 " of movement, but I wasn't thinking enough to try that. I ended up using my locking belts over open lockoffs. The tabs on the red swively lockoff pieces were sort of in the way of the belt whether it was open or closed, so hopefully they are strong and won't break if installed this way. Other than that, the installation was nice and solid. BUT, the sad part - I see no way at all that I could fit the removable headrest in the Civic RF. Even without the headrest, it was a little tight. I still need to upload my pictures and check out the RF angle I got (with 3 pool noodles taped together, as required by my oceans deep back seat). I will come update that in a bit. But it doesn't look good.

[lemurmommies]

BUT, the sad part - I see no way at all that I could fit the removable headrest in the Civic RF. Even without the headrest, it was a little tight. I still need to upload my pictures and check out the RF angle I got (with 3 pool noodles taped together, as required by my oceans deep back seat). I will come update that in a bit. But it doesn't look good.

That's really interesting. Makes me think that it likely wouldn't work well RF w/ headrest in our Ford Focus either. And considering that my son hit 22 pounds at about 4.5 months, I don't think I'd be comfy making the seat as upright as I imagine it'd have to be to fit in there RF with the headrest (assuming any future children of mine are also brutes.)

Thanks for the pictures of the infant insert though. Nice and thick and cushy. Looks like a neat seat overall.

[mommycat]

Did we lose some stuff with the technical problems? I thought I posted these yesterday...
ETA: 41 degrees

[mommycat]

Ok, I'm SURE we lost stuff. We discussed this! Pics in previous post were TF in '07 Civic.

Width of TF as compared to the gap between Civic front seats. The seat is not installed and would not fit next to LATCHed Radian outboard.

[snowbird25ca]

Yes, basically all the posts from yesterday were lost in the server/database problems. Thanks for reposting the pictures. :)

[mommycat]

I don't have time to pull the pics over now, but I tried the TF in my friend's Ford Focus today. I put it in the center position RF, with the headrest on, and I think the level was at 45 degrees or close, but I will need to check the pictures. My friend is 5'7" and she fit comfortably in the driver's seat. SO apparently the Civic and the Focus are very different beasts, or I need to retry the Civic sometime. Her AOE would NOT fit next to it, though I would hazard to say that a FF Radian would have fit fine, maybe even with LATCH. I will try to post the pictures soon.

[mommycat]

Wanted to update this with pics of a RF install in a 2004 Pontiac Montana, behind the front passanger seat. It gave just enough room for my friend to sit comfortably. I am thinking the angle is about 40 degrees in one and 45 in the other, but will be asking for a recheck in the RF Angles thread. Also, it is installed either with a locking clip, which apparently is not allowed, or with only the buckle side lockoff closed (anyone know if this is ok?). Installing with the switcable belt locked instead of the lockoffs (which apparently is also not allowed) made the seat tilt. I can't remember if we ever managed to get both lockoffs closed, but it would definitely have been a looser install than what I would be used to getting.

On a side note, I am starting to think that all of my posts here don't really fit the "TF vs MA" theme but I am not sure how to go about moving them to a separate TF installs thread. Anyone?

ETA: 40 degrees and 46 degrees.

[mommycat]

Adding another post real quick... :)

The pictures I had from the Ford Focus sedan. Fits well between seats, leaving lots of room for 5'7" friend in driver's seat. NOT fitting next to FF AOE in center. And, leaves approx 15.5" from the TF in center to the mark on my arm, which is approx where the seat ends. Might be able to sneak a low seat like the Radian beside it? FF at least.

ETA: 40.5 degrees

[mommycat]

I just tried out some more installs in the '07 Honda Civic sedan.

- I got a good install in the center, with 2 twists to the buckle stalk and 1 noodle. It actually fits quite well with the headrest between the front seats and it allowed the passanger seat to be adjusted as far back as the track allows (although obviously not fully reclined). But it was comfortable.

- I managed to get a Radian in rearfacing passenger outboard, but the TF had to somewhat off-center to accomodate it, so 3 across would not work with the contoured seats. On a different seat I think it might be doable. My Civic has hard bumps along the sides of the seatbacks by the door which won't squish to allow the recline foot on the Radian to fit underneath. As an extra note, I could sit fairly comfortable with the Radian behind me, but I am only 5'2" and I was on the verge of being uncomfortable. With my legs tucked so my calves touched the seat, I had only about 1" between my knees and the dash.

- There was no way an AOE would fit side by side with the RF TF, I am not entirely sure this would have been possible even with the TF even more off-center, but I didn't try.

- I was too frazzled by the end (a baby to keep track of on the lawn) to try the Radian FF next to the RF TF, but I would guess it would work out ok.

[mommycat]

Oh, and I got the lockoffs to work. I don't think I was anywhere near 45 degrees, and it was a pain, but they worked and I got a very solid install. I had to unbuckle the belt to open them again. :)

[snowbird25ca]

Here's a couple pic's of the TF in my Saturn Outlook. It's installed rf'ing w/LATCH. The more reclined picture I had troubles with the LATCH belt sliding to the edge of the rf'ing lock-off, but I only had to redo it once. When I switched to a pool noodle and got the more upright install, I had no difficulty with the lock-offs. :)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01365.jpg - install close to 45* - the seat is further forward in this pic than in the more upright pic, just so you don't wonder why there isn't more front seat space.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01367.jpg

I'm easily able to drive even with the seat at close to 45*. I'm 5' 7.5" with a 31" inseam. But we do have pretty generous room in the 2nd row. :thumbsup:

[April]

So I went back to Zellers today and they finally had a TF out of the box on display. I sat Riley in it and he would be on the second to top slots with not much time before going to the top slots! I really need to measure his torso again, because he's not even 2yo and I just moved him up to the top slots on his Apex too. Its going to be real fun to keep him harnessed in a couple years! :eek:

So my preliminary opinion is that if my next baby is anything like Riley, a TF likely wouldn't last themt o 4yo. :(

[QuassEE]

You'd be VERY surprised as far as that last set of slots goes. When the Marathon first came out, I got one for my (then) 5 year old son. He had outgrown his NextStep by weight about 12 months before, and I re-harnessed him in Feb of 2003. He stayed harnessed in the Marathon until about 6 months later, despite having between 1cm-.5cm of space when we started. He grew a good 2" in overall body height during that time.

I know other people have had their kids in the top slots for a full 3 years on the Marathon. The TF would likely be the same.

-Nicole.

[lemurmommies]

For all of you that have played with the TF in person - in my "feeling guilty" thread I posted about thinking that it wasn't approved for aircraft use, but someone checked the manual and it is. That said, can any of you imagine getting the TF in an airplane seat either RF or FF?

[QuassEE]

Depends on the plane?

We take puddle-jumpers here because we have a tiny airport that flies into a larger airport (Bellingham, WA flying into Seattle). Generally it's DH Dash8s (little turbo props)... I think an install might be tricky in one of those, but might be doable with the armrest up.. Otherwise, I think it would fit in most/all of the jets I've been on.

-N.

[lemurmommies]

We take puddle-jumpers here because we have a tiny airport that flies into a larger airport (Bellingham, WA flying into Seattle). Generally it's DH Dash8s (little turbo props)... I think an install might be tricky in one of those, but might be doable with the armrest up.. Otherwise, I think it would fit in most/all of the jets I've been on.

-N.

Thanks for the quick reply. Generally we fly on larger planes to the US or eastern Canada, so nope, no puddle jumpers. :) Maybe I will need to go to Zellers and actually pop E into one to see what I think after all. Darn my big kid who just couldn't stay small enough to make this a non-issue.

[April]

Maybe I will need to go to Zellers and actually pop E into one to see what I think after all. Darn my big kid who just couldn't stay small enough to make this a non-issue.

No kidding hey? Your "guilt" post, made me start feeling guilty too! Riley is 31/32lbs in just a diaper and he's been FF since December (about 16 months). I totally thought he couldn't RF anymore because he was over the listed height limit on the Radian. When we got in an accident (a week after I FF'd him!) I thought there was no point in buying another convertable because he couldn't rf anyways. So now he's in the Apex FF and it looks like I'm just going to go with the Frontier in August when he turns 2.

I thought about a TF, but when I realized he's almost over the second to top slots, I don't know if DH would let me buy it knowing that the Frontier would last way longer. Especially since I've bought four new seats in the past nine months and I'm buying 2 Monterey's and a GN as well as the Frontier for Riley as soon as those seats come to Canada. So if I bought the TF for Riley instead of the Frontier, I don't know if that would go over well.

[lemurmommies]

Well, I did it. E has a new Aurora True Fit. No installation pictures yet because DP had the car today, but we did play around with it at home. If E was going to be using it FF, he'd be at the 3rd strap height, as opposed to the 4th like on his Marathon. For RF, he'll be using the 2nd strap height. There's also, of course, quite a bit more shell above his head than in the MA, which will be good as he grows. I'm really impressed with the seat as a whole. I like the way the straps adjust, and the adjustable buckle depth. It also has better leg support for E than the MA does. Had it been on the market a year ago, I'm 95% sure I wouldn't own a MA.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/2588111641_31f746407f_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3047/2588105393_b1251a279e_m.jpg

Now I just have to hope that getting it RF in out Focus isn't a royal pain in the neck. I'll try and update on that tomorrow.

[snowbird25ca]

He looks so comfy in it. :D

Have fun with the install - it really is a nice seat, isn't it? :love:

[mommycat]

Hope it installs well. I have mine sitting in the porch unused and I really don't know if I can justify keeping it. I *can* get it in my car RF, but it would make the passenger seat have to sit very forward and it would not be too comfy/safe. Then again, we don't travel all together that often. But DS is 3.5 yrs old (and 32 lb though he gains slowly) so it's not like he is that young, and I already have more than enough seats for the baby.

[lemurmommies]

Okay!

Well, it's in. I have the TF installed outboard behind the passenger, using the UAS. To be truthful, the install wasn't as difficult as I though it might be. I didn't find the lockoffs difficult to use with the UAS strap at all, and I have it installed so that there is no movement whatsoever at the beltpath. It is a bit of a pain to tighten the harness with the seat installed though. You'll note that in my pictures E's harness isn't tight enough - I didn't want to fight with it just for the photos.

I do however hope that you all can help me judge the angle of the seat. I currently have a tightly rolled hand towel at the bight of the seat. When I sit E in it, he seems to want to be more upright, but since I'm having a hard time judging what angle the seat is at now, I don't want to take the towel out just yet. I am parked on a completely level surface, so the window line of the van parked next to us should be level. What do you think? Can it go more upright, or does he just need to get used to the deeper seat?

You'll see that at this angle, the headrest on the TF is just barely touching the headrest on the front passenger seat; it's not braced at all. And I can still sit very comfortably in the front seat. I would not be able to get the TF installed at 45 degrees with the headrest on and still have a passenger ride up front.

Thanks for your opinions!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2590454592_396eb4a39e_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3123/2589621707_4813228b08_m.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3216/2589620315_25886c3da3_m.jpg

[hipmaman]

Mel, what vehicle is the TF in? ;)

[lemurmommies]

Duh, sorry! That's a 2005 Ford Focus station wagon.

[TechnoGranola]

Hope it installs well. I have mine sitting in the porch unused and I really don't know if I can justify keeping it. I *can* get it in my car RF, but it would make the passenger seat have to sit very forward and it would not be too comfy/safe. What car were you installing it in? I bought one for my parents in their Yaris sedan which is a small vehicle, and it sits behind the passenger seat RF and leaves quite a decent amount of room for the passenger. The seat is only a few clicks up from all the way back. Then again, it could just be that the True Fit fits the Yaris well (which it does, basically exactly a 35° angle without any noodles, installed directly on the seat). I could see that if you had to use a pool noodle on your seats that it would create less room for the passenger seat.

[snowbird25ca]

I think it can be a little more upright. Here's a side picture of mine if it helps any:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01367.jpg

Although I have installed it even a little more upright since that picture.

A tip for the harness - well 2 of them actually. ;)
- reach at the back of the seat and grab the harness straps with one hand and pull them snug over your ds's shoulders - then while holding them snug, pull the adjuster strap to take the slack out.
- shorten the harness to the shorter set of loops. I haven't had dd in it since doing that yet, but I know that before I did it the splitter plate was sitting basically right at the bent of the back and the bottom of the seat. I expect it to tighten easier with the harness shortened, and I think it will be fine for her with the shorter length for now.

One other thing, double check to make sure position 3 wouldn't be better for him. I ended up going with position 3 even though dd's shoulders are just a hair below it because the harness fits her much much better that way and adjusts better. She was close enough to it that the harness wanted to try and slide off her shoulders when it was on position 2. I'm not worried about that less than 1/4" because she has lots of shell above her head and her harness is well tightened. (And truth be told, it's a pretty common recommendation to move to the next slots up if a child is super close and the harness isn't adjusting as well on the lower one - but he has to be less than 1/4" below position 3 to use it.) This link is the full size pic of what's in my siggy & you can see how she's close enough to even that it actually looks even. :thumbsup: http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y194/snowbird25ca/compass%20true%20fit/DSC01373.jpg

[lemurmommies]

Thanks for the tips Trudy - we're on our way out soon, so we'll leave a little early to check the harness height. I think that if I take the towel out I'll still have an acceptable install given that the towel is so compressed. I'll also check the strap height if I move it to position 3. I think that it's going to be too high, but I'll give it the old college try!

[lemurmommies]

Okay, so I went out and played around with it a bit more. I took the towel out, and I still think that I'm getting an acceptable install in terms of the angle. This (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3082/2590489707_d93b56b132.jpg) is a picture of the new recline. What do you think? With it more upright it sure does make it a right PITA to reach the harness adjuster, but I still like it better.

Also, here are pictures of the strap height. This is the straps at position 2 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2590488473_76c2708973.jpg), and this is them at position 3 (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2591320898_9578f57b28.jpg). I think that he still needs them in position two, even though it does make them slide off his shoulders a bit more.

[mommycat]

Get someone else to check it too, I am sleep deprived, but I think I get 30 degrees on that last one. So you need it another 5 degrees reclined since someone above stated the TF is allowed a 35-45 degree recline range.

What car were you installing it in? I bought one for my parents in their Yaris sedan which is a small vehicle, and it sits behind the passenger seat RF and leaves quite a decent amount of room for the passenger. The seat is only a few clicks up from all the way back. Then again, it could just be that the True Fit fits the Yaris well (which it does, basically exactly a 35° angle without any noodles, installed directly on the seat). I could see that if you had to use a pool noodle on your seats that it would create less room for the passenger seat.

I am doing a '07 Honda Civic. I haven't tried the outboard install yet, I only tried the center, which worked beautifully but doesn't leave a whole lot of room on the side for baby unless I wanted to use the Radian, which I don't. The outboard seats will require a pool noodle or 3. I have an "AOE Recline Issues" thread showing the crazy contours in the seats. And I need to start a whole new thread to get help with all my dithering on the family carseats issue... I am much too indecisive.

[lemurmommies]

Get someone else to check it too, I am sleep deprived, but I think I get 30 degrees on that last one. So you need it another 5 degrees reclined since someone above stated the TF is allowed a 35-45 degree recline range.


When I drew lines on the picture and used my protractor I was pretty sure I was getting 36 degrees, but maybe I'm measuring wrong too. I added the pic to the "check the RF angle" thread too.

ETA - you were right. With the towel it was 35, without the towel it's 30. So I guess the towel needs to go back in or I have to get a pool noodle. Shoot - E likes it more upright too.

[mommycat]

Guess I never updated this before, but I did get the TF in the 07 Civic RF in passenger outboard. With a non-45 degree recline, it fit ok and still left some room in the front seat, though not a lot. I needed 1 pool noodle to get a better recline with the scoop in my seats. Wish I had taken pictures but my 3.5 yr old cried so hard on the 3 trips he rode RF again that I caved and turned him FF again. I LOVE this seat FF.

[hipmaman]

Yeah, I also tried the TF and MA in my old Honda Accord 2-door sport coupe and pictures are here http://picasaweb.google.ca/hipmaman/Carseats2008#

There is no way I can fit any other (Canadian) seats outboard for the 2 older kids with either the MA or TF in the middle.