Is the Frontier a good candidate for my un-equipped foreign-market car?

[Neatfreak]

I've been reading bits and pieces of various threads on the Frontier installation over the last couple of months ('cause we could use a seat like it in the future), but I'm becoming a little bit concerned that it really wouldn't work very well in our current vehicle. And then, because I can get dramatic over vehicle safety, I think "if a Britax seat won't work, nothing probably will!" and start to despair about the day my DD outgrows her Marathon ...

Anyway, my vehicle is a 2007 Toyota Fortuner, a large SUV produced for the Asian market. But I doubt the info is really pertinent. What stands out to me as important is:

1) no LATCH
2) no tether anchors (without getting into discussion of car seats and third world countries, I'll just add that there is no possibility of getting one installed)
3) lap/shoulder belts (outboard) do not lock. Lap belt (center) does have locking latchplate, but MA install with it was very inferior to outboard with lap/shoulder belt.

So, I'd be installing the seat (harnessed mode) with a lap/shoulder belt and a locking clip alone. Are my chances for a good install slim, given the limitations of my vehicle?

[joolsplus3]

My Frontier installed with the Long Belt Path in my Ford Escape, and it used up the *entire* belt... there isn't even room to put a locking clip on it (if Britax ever gets around to approving them with that seat, anyway...I'm sure they will but for now they don't yet). So what I'm saying is, if your belt is long enough, it 'should' be an excellent installation with the LBP, and the shoulderbelt will mimic a top tether somewhat. I just wish we could test belts to find out what the shortest belt is you could use for the LBP (hmmm... a chip clip to hold it all the way out and an extra person to hold it even further out, and a measuring tape to measure the two lengths of belt to see how long it is overall?).
Do your seatbacks recline in that car? If they recline, then you install, then you pull them back upright, that's another trick for getting tight installs that might help the short path install. (Even might help the Marathon in the center... I'm sure you would have tried that trick, but I have to mention it... :o)

[TerisBoys]

Tossing some things out for the techs that might read this...

Would an anchor from EZ-On work in her SUV?

I believe they come with instructions on how to find a spot to install, and I know they've been put into older vehicles w/o anchor locations.

*OR* If it has a 3rd row with a manual lap belt in the middle, could she tether to that?

ETA - I found pics of her vehicle/interior here (http://www.cars-directory.net/gallery/toyota/fortuner/2007/toyota_fortuner_a1197450109b1482354_p.html).

[QuassEE]

In the Fortuner I would install in one of the outboard positions using the lockoffs or a locking clip (depending on seat) and tether to the rear-row seatbelts either fully extended or using a belt shortening clip if necessary...? It should be fine as long as that back row seatbelt isn't needed.

BTW--you can't add anchors except to manufacturer-approved locations. So just because you have the tether anchor (they're easy to come by here in Canada) it doesn't mean there's a structural location to drill and thread to. We have lots of Japanese-market vehicles here but they all have to be 15 years old...so I don't get to see the newer stuff, but the older stuff *does not have to comply* to any of our Canadian regulations and it's a pain :(

-Nicole.

[Neatfreak]

Thanks for all of the input. It's given me a lot to think about!

We would not be able to add any sort of tether anchor to the vehicle even if we brought a part from a similar vehicle in Canada (my guess is that my car is the closest to a Toyota 4Runner) for two reasons: it's a company car and the concept of a tether anchor does not exist in Thailand (land of no carseat regs) so there isn't even a language established to explain this to a mechanic.

This is probably my #1 peeve - I'd be happier with a center lapbelt install if the seat could be tethered. The way my third row is configured, I can tether from the second row outboard positions to the third row seatbelt apparatus. There is not a center seat in the third row. Not tethering a FFing seat is kind of painful to my Canadian sensibilities, so that spot will be reserved for when we add a RFing seat in the fall.

Would a shoulder belt act as a top tether if the belt wasn't locked? That isn't normally how I understand it working.

It sounds like perhaps I'm best off spending the year or so until my daughter outgrows her MA watching the threads on Frontier installations. Unless one of the other ex-pats in my compound bring one back from summer holidays and I can try it out in my Fortuner, I'm not too keen on bringing one back to Thailand this summer unless I know that locking clips are allowed (or lock-offs are added to the design), or that all of the shoulder/lap belt is used for the install in the vehicle.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts, ladies!

[QuassEE]

Obviously this is a difficult concept for any of us Canadians to accept..but..the lack of a tether isn't the end of the world...if the child is in a harnessed seat, properly installed, and properly restrained by that seat...you're protecting them extremely well.

On the point of the rear belt--if the tether is tightened fully, and there's still slack in the belt...you need to use a belt shortening clip on your rear belts when acting as a tether point. This isn't a locking clip, although it looks like one (but is heavier duty).. If you have trouble finding one there, I'm sure one of the members here can send you one. A locking clip isn't very strong and I wouldn't be comfortable using one in this situation.

-Nicole.

[Neatfreak]

I don't actually have the MA tethered to a seat belt in the third row, but to a slot in the metal plate of the hardware that the buckle portion's webbing is sewn onto (I shoved aside the webbing). It's anchored directly to the floor.

[QuassEE]

Since seatbelts are designed to hold an ADULT in place, that's fine--as long as you're not too off side...(20 degrees, although I remember 10-12 years back people were okay with 25 degrees.) I do RF tether to the floor anchors for my seats when they're not in place, and I imagine those anchors can also stand quite a bit of force, but I don't have any data backing it up for FF use.. I'd leave that one up to parental decision if the need arose.

Having traveled to numerous other countries where the car and carseat situation was less than ideal, I definitely have a lot of empathy. I'll never forget the week we spent in Trinidad where, at the time, you couldn't get rental cars with rear seatbelts!

-Nicole.

[Neatfreak]

Well, my car doesn't have floor anchors either, so I don't have to figure out how I feel about those!

The taxis here in Thailand don't have rear seatbelts either, and neither did the airport shuttle on the last beach vacation we took. I never expected that vehicle features would differ so much across the world - even cars that are sold in many markets, like Accords and Camrys.

The situation in Trinidad must have been a really unpleasant surprise!

[bbartlettnfld]

I just wanted to empathize, We're here in Doha and also have a "Asian" market car, Ditto to the complete lack of safety features. I can't wait to upgrade in the fall to a US market car. I am so sick of feeling like my kids are not as safe as they should be due to my POS vehicle.

BethAnn

[Neatfreak]

Hee. It will probably be 3.5 -5 years before my family is back in North America, so I will have to revel in the cars I rent while on home leave!

I'm sure that I read that the Frontier requires tethering after a certain weight, so maybe it's out completely for us. Grr.

BethAnn, your handle immediately makes me think of Brigus, NL!

[bbartlettnfld]

NeatFreak: Well we are Newfies! Dh is related to Cpt. Bob Bartlett via one of his brothers I think as Cpt. Bob never had any children. We visited his house (Hawthorne Cottage) this past summer. Its a national historic site.

Thanks for noticing!

[Neatfreak]

We moved to Bangkok after a 13 month assignment in St. John's, and I am so surprised about how much I miss living in NL. But now, I'd much rather be piling snow six feet high to get my car out of the driveway than melting over here in the tropics LOL!

Brigus was our favourite road-trip destination.