Anyone considering a Sunshine Kids seat, read this FIRST!!

[Debn31]

I am posting this here as well as the Canadian side, since I realized that Americans may also be interested in the BEYOND crappy Customer Service I received from Sunshine Kids regarding the short strap issue.

Well...you can add me to the list of ticked off customers. :mad:
I DID call Transport Canada after getting NOWHERE with Russ from Sk. They won't budge (SK That is).

Barbara (from Transport Canada) was AWESOME!!!!!!!! :thumbsup: She was really easy to talk to, really friendly and really helpful.

Only problem is, Sunshine Kids is exploiting the whole "48 lb FF" rule that we used to have in Canada even though it's the SAME seat. They couldn't do this in the US as it's 65 lb there, so they HAD to replace any short strap problems there as a manufacturing error, but they are using this as an excuse here. So legally, there's nothing the government can do.

Which would mean, that because we bought TWO car seats from them, and have TWO tall boys (one who's having issues with it already because he's not even 4.5 but in the 92nd % for height, so...you can see the problem) it'll end up costing us a ton for shipping both ways, AND car seat for #2 in the interim (Oldest CAN use a booster, but I feel that he should be in a 5 pt harness as long as possible partly because he's only 4).
So, yeah right Sunshine Kids.

We really can't afford to buy new car seats, in that we can DO it but have to put it on credit card and pay it off that way - which I'm not crazy about adding to debt (I'm home so only dh working) but at the same time, I want to make sure my kids are the safest they can be. So, we'll be buying new 5 pt harness seats. Which ticks me off, because that means that the Radian, which we shelled out $200 plus tax for, lasted a WHOPPING 11 months. Oh yes.

But really, what the HECK is Sunshine Kids THINKING??? If there were really weren't that many produced with the short straps (which is what they CLAIMED), wouldn't it make more sense PR wise to replace them and have happy customers??????

I can tell you this, and I told this to Russ already - hubby is going to be training to be a CRT (and likely me too), and we'll have PLENTY of opportunity to be sharing our experience with SK with MANY MANY parents.
What a stupid stupid policy.

I hope they end up going out of the car seat business altogether (I read about the Mighty Tight due to all this short strap business, so I see it's not the car seat that's the real problem but the company itself).

But all in all, though it didn't the way I wanted it to, I am really glad to have talked to Barbara who suggested the True Fit (we have a Corolla and it's supposed to be 19" width - the True Fit that is), as well as I asked her about the Mada 5 (since she IS part of Transport Canada ;) ) So I got some great info and opinions. Apparently there have been no complaints about the company who makes the True Fit.

I only wish we had seen the complaints about Sunshine Kids before (but of course we were just a part of it all near the beginning).
We are left with Two Radians, which I think I will donate. They won't work for us, but they are rated well, and if someone has a short child, they might as well use it. They don't expire for a good while, so someone might as well make use of them, right?

So, I have now become an official (what's the word here?) .... naysayer? Objector? Dissatisfied customer??? LOL, of Sunshine Kids.

Whatever. They're going to be the ones who REALLY lose in the long run.

Anyways...thanks to all for the help.

Booooooo (urns) to Sunshine Kids!

(Oh, and my four year took advantage of me being on the phone with Barbara and used MY toothbrush and our toothpaste too....which Barbara overheard and laughed at....BUT...could have been worse...he could have brushed the cat's teeth :eek: )

[LISmama810]

I'm sorry--I don't know what you mean by "short strap." Maybe I'm just having a bad day, or maybe there's some Canadian thing I don't understand. Can you clarify the problem you're having with the seat?

[Debn31]

There were some seats made that had short straps rather than the long normal straps.
Apparently, SK has gone back and forth on it, first saying it was a manufacturing error, then saying no they were made this way on purpose.

I am not sure if any were sold in the US at all or not.
But, my point being that the customer service was very poor.

So, if you already have one, and don't have an issue with the straps (manufactured in 2006) - you're fine.
Just don't expect stellar customer service if something DOES go wrong that they find a loophole to get out of dealing with it.

Which in my opinion, is just bad bad PR...

[joolsplus3]

Yah, there was a crazy issue where just a few Radians have these comically (not funny if you have an actual kid to put in the seat) short straps... a few of them were sold in the US, and I think they shoved the rest up on Canada... most people got new seats, I think, a long time ago, when it was first found to be a problem...I'm shocked they are being a pain about it, normally their customer service is stellar :(

[Stretchy Glue]

I've had good experiences with their CS, and Russ in general. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.

[CDNTech]

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this as well. We also have always had stellar service and had one of our Radian's replaced no problem.

[Mommy2Five]

I'm sorry you're having this issue. I've usually heard good things about SKJP's Customer service... That's a little worrisome as I just bought 5 SKJP seats.

[solmama]

I've called them a couple of times and gotten excellent service. I like the Radian, as a seat, and if they implement the rumored changes it will be an even better seat.

[canadianmom2three]

My experience with service from Brad on the Canadian side is a little iffy, but I have had nothing but unbelievable service from Russ, on the US side. I did get one of the short strap seats as well, and upon further investigation, it was my understanding that those seats were ONLY available at Can. Tire, and were part of old stock that was shipped BEFORE Transport Canada upped our limit to 65lbs. They replaced all the short strap seats sold at REGULAR price,and before TC upped the weight limit with no issues, as far as I have heard (and mine was one of those, and I got a long strapped 48lb limit seat in exchange), but when Canadian Tire clearanced out the seats at 1/2 price, (which was after TC raised the weight limit) they stopped doing so. I can't say I blame them, because at that point, people buying a 48lb limit $99 seat, and asking for a new one based on the short straps would basically get a replacement seat that was a 65lb limit one, which wouldn't be fair for the people who were legitimatly buying the 65lb limit seats at the regular (and far higher) price. AS far as I could find, all SK seats shipped after the 65 lb limit, and actually ALL seats sold at any other place than Canadian Tire, had the appropriate length straps. I really do think it is unfortunate for many people that those short strap seats exist, because I'm sure there are many tall but light kids who don't fit, even if they are less than 48lbs, but at that point, most of the other 48lb harnessed seats on the market in Canada would also be too small for those kids, or darn close to it. I did have a bit of trouble around my short strap seat with Brad, the Can rep. but I brought my issues to Russ's attention, and the matter was quickly resolved. Now I just email him directly and he is super quick, and efficient. I emailed him the other day (Sunday) and he had replied back the same day. Tell me how many other companies you will recieve customer service from on a Sunday evening??:thumbsup: I am sorry that you are having a bad experience, but I hope that your post doesn't lead others to believe they will experience the same. I love my SK seat, and I have nothing but good things to say about their CS. Sorry Russ, if you're lurking, don't mean to send more people your way, but I have to say, you do a great job:D

[Debn31]

Well, indeed that is why I chose to email Russ directly, as I had heard the same thing.
I DID buy the seats full price, in July, 2007 (I believe the 65 lb rule was newly in effect at that point).

And, I thought perhaps since I had paid $199 per seat (and still have the bills to prove it) that I might get a little help. In fact, I did offer to pay the shipping one way too.

And I was given an attachment (from PJM) that said I would have to pay both ways.
SO, essentially, that would mean what, $40 per seat (they are heavy! I sent a snugride to B.C. to a friend, and that cost $40) at least, both ways = $160. THen, I'd have to get a second seat for my youngest dude, add another $100 on to that. So $450 for the original seats (that's with our taxes of course), then another $260 on top of that?????

I know they are saying that it was made that way on purpose (to go with the 48 lb thing), but then why were they initially being replaced? And there apparently were a few sold in the states, so how did that happen too if it wasn't a manufacturing error????

I don't know, just sounds like there were screw ups, and I (along with others ) am getting the short end of the stick.

Believe me, I heard what happened with Canadian Tire and I am unimpressed with how they handled things too (won't be shopping there anytime soon). I am thinking that had C.Tire shipped them back instead of clearing them out to unknowing buyers, SK would have been more likely to handle the few out there more gracefully. So, I lose the money, and that really stinks. And what REALLY upsets me is I wasn't one of the people trying to exploit the $99 thing. I paid full price, $200, and my son got to use it for a whopping 11 months......

[Debn31]

Honestly, I could almost cry here...we paid $450 last July, not even a year ago. Before the short strap stuff came to light. Now we have to go and fork out another $400 or so (and put it on credit) - would you be willing to pay another $260 on the seats you already purchased for $450????
Seems to me, that all customers should be treated on equal footing. Had they said, right from the beginning, that this was the way then that would be that.
Also, I'm just so upset that I paid full price, and still can't get anywhere on the matter.
Hubby is the only one working (I'm at home with our 2 and 4 year old boys)....You know it gets tight money wise that way. Yes, it was a choice, yes there are sacrifices, but I'm not willing to take a chance with my children's lives so that means I am not left with much choice here BUT to shell out again. :(

[singingpond]

Honestly, I could almost cry here...we paid $450 last July, not even a year ago. Before the short strap stuff came to light. Now we have to go and fork out another $400 or so (and put it on credit) - would you be willing to pay another $260 on the seats you already purchased for $450????
Seems to me, that all customers should be treated on equal footing. Had they said, right from the beginning, that this was the way then that would be that.
Also, I'm just so upset that I paid full price, and still can't get anywhere on the matter....(

The fact that others have had decent CS experience with Sunshine Kids doesn't make your current miserable experience any better... probably makes it more frustrating, if anything, to hear that SK has not had a consistent position on this problem, and that others with the same complaint received much better service in the past. It's as though you are being punished for not being aware of the short strap problem 'early enough', and now you are told your time to get it fixed appropriately has expired -- the rules have been changed. I would be angry also. SK (and Russ) do seem to have a history of being erratic in what they say (e.g. which chest clip you can safely use on the seat, whether the replacement wider buckle 'tongs' are free or whether you have to pay for them, when and under what circumstances customers' seats are replaced by SK, etc.). Your experience does seem to fit that erratic pattern, unfortunately.

Katrin

[Mommypooh]

I plan to get 3 of these in the next year or so for extra seats for my children and to be able to do 3 across the back of my van.

[Debn31]

Katrin - I know...
Seems like they bailed on the Canadian customers because they COULD, and the ones in the US are fine because of the 65 lb rule being there the WHOLE Time. Really, if it wasn't a manufacturing error, how else did some end up in the US???
And, if it wasn't an error, it should have stated somewhere on the box, that these were the short strapped version.
It didn't even fit my son to 42 lb, for goodness sake, and all because of the short straps!!
I have written to Russ two more times....I suspect though, the order comes from much higher up.
Perhaps the VP/P (or whomever) didn't like the fact that costs were going up due to more and more of these defects being discovered, and ordered a stop on the replacements???
WOuld explain the old switcheroo on stories as well as why some were taken care of and the rest were not.
Not a nice way to treat your customers for your error (and I maintain it IS an error, too much says it is...)

Still a couple things I will try, but really am not happy with Sunshine Kids at this point....

Seems those of you in the States are faring better with customer service, I hope they don't start screwing around with anyone else.
Because other than this crap I'm dealing with, I really liked our Radians :(

[BudgieStew]

Can you try and return them for full cost to CT? Then buy new seats with the money.

I've returned a few things to CT..one was a DVD player that stopped working after 6 months.
If they fight you on it explain why you are returning them.

There was way more then the 50 seats sold with short straps that SK said there was.

[Debn31]

Can you try and return them for full cost to CT? Then buy new seats with the money.

I've returned a few things to CT..one was a DVD player that stopped working after 6 months.
If they fight you on it explain why you are returning them.

There was way more then the 50 seats sold with short straps that SK said there was.

Yeah, I'm going to try that route....
I'm not holding my breath though.

I think the way that Sk has chosen to deal with this is just ridiculous.
Imagine how many of us would have become very loyal to SK (at least, when a company is good to me, I tend to be very loyal)...When I am treated badly, however, I make sure to let others know about that too.
What does a company expect? We're supposed to lay down and quietly take it??? Not this consumer.

[SafeandSecureBaby]

I think an important thing to remember when dealing with any customer service department, is that you will get more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. Customer service of any company is staffed by people just like us. Now I'm not saying that the OP attacked SK's CS, but I can see from the tone of her posts that it is possible the OP was aggressive.

Respect and civility can go a long way with many customer service departments. Demands are far less likely to be met if percieved as hostile. Finally, not that I am making excuses for SK, but manufacturers are not insurance companies. Products often come with warranties, but the terms of the warranty are generally limited and spelled out for the consumer. They generally don't include shipping which is a real and substantial cost to any business. Providing good customer service doesn't equate with providing full replacements of products with all possble costs or monies back. That type of behavior equates with going out of business. However, making a good product to begin with helps reduce those costs. :twocents:

[hipmaman]

Debn31, PM me and we'll try to arm you with some info to try and get a refund from CT.

I wash my hands off dealing with this short-strap issue, Russ and Brad a while back, as a consumer. The fact that some have had stellar CS from them does not make it ok for those that have been given the shaft. It's appalling and it can only happen in Canada where certain people can be pushed and bullied. It's shameful that there is no such things as a collective/united front to show SK consumer wraths here or the authority that we look to (TC) for help in situations like this couldn't do much :(

That's my 2 cents and I guess that say more than normal for my usual Switzerland-self :) But that's personal. Professionally, I remain partial and when the situation calls for a RN, a RN it is.

[Debn31]

I think an important thing to remember when dealing with any customer service department, is that you will get more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. Customer service of any company is staffed by people just like us. Now I'm not saying that the OP attacked SK's CS, but I can see from the tone of her posts that it is possible the OP was aggressive.

Respect and civility can go a long way with many customer service departments. Demands are far less likely to be met if percieved as hostile. Finally, not that I am making excuses for SK, but manufacturers are not insurance companies. Products often come with warranties, but the terms of the warranty are generally limited and spelled out for the consumer. They generally don't include shipping which is a real and substantial cost to any business. Providing good customer service doesn't equate with providing full replacements of products with all possble costs or monies back. That type of behavior equates with going out of business. However, making a good product to begin with helps reduce those costs. :twocents:

I am the original poster, and yes, I was a little hostile perhaps in this post, but only AFTER I first contacted the company. I was very, very civil (but also clear in what I thought was an appropriate fix) in my first email, believe me.

I have given this a LOT of reading and looking up, contacting transport canada and everything.

I completely agree (and even said in my email that I understood that it costs a company money with shipping etc) that these things cost money.

In fact, I even suggested to pay the shipping one way.
I got a very generic email in response (and already had gotten this response from the distributor earlier).

I got nowhere.
Of course I'm going to get frustrated.
After paying $450 for two car seats that had such short straps that were NOT clearly labeled or disclosed to the consumer when I purchased (I was NOT one of the ones purchasing, knowing about the straps, a discounted car seat) - I worked out the cost of shipping and having to get another car seat for my youngest son to be between $260 - $300.
How can that be acceptable???
I purchased these car seats not even a year ago...And one is unusable to me, and the other won't be that far behind (my boys are pretty close in age).

It would have been entirely different if I had known what I was getting, or had gotten them cheaply.
Wouldn't you feel cheated? I sure do.

Finally, I completely agree, the company should have made sure the product good to begin with. How is it my fault that it was either A) a factory defect
or B) Not fully disclosed to the consumer?

[Debn31]

Debn31, PM me and we'll try to arm you with some info to try and get a refund from CT.

I wash my hands off dealing with this short-strap issue, Russ and Brad a while back, as a consumer. The fact that some have had stellar CS from them does not make it ok for those that have been given the shaft. It's appalling and it can only happen in Canada where certain people can be pushed and bullied. It's shameful that there is no such things as a collective/united front to show SK consumer wraths here or the authority that we look to (TC) for help in situations like this couldn't do much :(

That's my 2 cents and I guess that say more than normal for my usual Switzerland-self :) But that's personal. Professionally, I remain partial and when the situation calls for a RN, a RN it is.

Thanks Tam!!!
I will PM you (we're about to go have lunch right now though).

You're right, I feel pushed, bullied and most of all cheated.
I completely agree with all you've said.

I too, am ready to wash my hands completely of this....aside from letting others know my crappy experience.

There are other companies out there who I am sure would be happy to have my business as well as those I direct their way.

Thanks.

[Debn31]

So...now that I'm feeling a little less annoyed (still not happy but the shock has worn off I guess)....

I wanted to just state that I think I was a little bit hard on Russ from SKJP.
I wasn't really rude in my emails, but it was obvious in the ones that followed the first that I was really ticked off.

While he didn't exactly help my situation, upon reflection I realize that it's the company policy that's ridiculous.

He wasn't rude in any emails....but my situation was not fixed, and I guess it's true that when you're working with the public, it's the company's PR representative that gets the brunt of the anger when something goes wrong.

I know, I've worked with the public too. And, you sometimes get anger directed at you that's not really your fault (you know, the "I don't make the policies ma'am, I just work here" thing).

That said, I still won't be buying any SK products in the future (Which is too bad since I have tall fellas.... :( ) but just wanted to put it out there that Russ was just sort of the front line in all this mess and got the bulk of my frustration when it's really the company I am annoyed with.

[safeinthecar]

I think an important thing to remember when dealing with any customer service department, is that you will get more flies with honey than you will with vinegar. Customer service of any company is staffed by people just like us. Now I'm not saying that the OP attacked SK's CS, but I can see from the tone of her posts that it is possible the OP was aggressive.

Respect and civility can go a long way with many customer service departments. Demands are far less likely to be met if percieved as hostile. Finally, not that I am making excuses for SK, but manufacturers are not insurance companies. Products often come with warranties, but the terms of the warranty are generally limited and spelled out for the consumer. They generally don't include shipping which is a real and substantial cost to any business. Providing good customer service doesn't equate with providing full replacements of products with all possble costs or monies back. That type of behavior equates with going out of business. However, making a good product to begin with helps reduce those costs. :twocents:

Unfortunately, I know from experience that being nice to Russ and his staff does not equal good service. If you would like an example of what I'm talking about, search for Radian Fiasco to see the emails Russ and I exchanged back and forth regarding my defective RN.

[safeinthecar]

So...now that I'm feeling a little less annoyed (still not happy but the shock has worn off I guess)....

I wanted to just state that I think I was a little bit hard on Russ from SKJP.
I wasn't really rude in my emails, but it was obvious in the ones that followed the first that I was really ticked off.

While he didn't exactly help my situation, upon reflection I realize that it's the company policy that's ridiculous.

He wasn't rude in any emails....but my situation was not fixed, and I guess it's true that when you're working with the public, it's the company's PR representative that gets the brunt of the anger when something goes wrong.

I know, I've worked with the public too. And, you sometimes get anger directed at you that's not really your fault (you know, the "I don't make the policies ma'am, I just work here" thing).

That said, I still won't be buying any SK products in the future (Which is too bad since I have tall fellas.... :( ) but just wanted to put it out there that Russ was just sort of the front line in all this mess and got the bulk of my frustration when it's really the company I am annoyed with.


Thing is, I had 3 different phone reps tell me that Russ is the owner of the company. So this is either true, and Russ COULD fix the problem if her wanted to, or the Reps lied to me, which IMO is the ultimate in bad CS.

[Jewels]

Honestly, I could almost cry here...we paid $450 last July, not even a year ago.

I've heard that CT will return things up to a year after it was purchased with no questions asked. I'd try to return them . . . hopefully you still have your receipts.

[chickabiddy]

I am probably going to get flamed for this, but...

First, I want to say that this stinks for you, and it's not fair, and it's not your fault, and I'm sorry.

But I also see SK's side-- people were searching out the short-strapped seats in order to buy them cheaply and "trade up" to the 65-pound seats. I know you didn't do that. But I don't think that their policies are out of line either, all things considered.

[a_js]

I do see their point. But, if someone has a receipt showing they paid full price and weren't trying to cheat it's not fair for the company to penalize them too.

[Debn31]

I've heard that CT will return things up to a year after it was purchased with no questions asked. I'd try to return them . . . hopefully you still have your receipts.

Well...I hope you're right! I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Wanted to get it done today, but also had two bbq's to attend this weekend (stayed a little too late both times, it's so hard to leave when you're having fun!), and get some washing done at other people's houses (Washing machine broke this week too....:rolleyes: except we have extended warranty and it's with Sears. Have yet to have had a problem with Sears, thank goodness. I'm sure someone has though! )

Anyways, we'll find out tomorrow night, I guess. Or Tuesday night. It's supposed to rain tomorrow night, I'll have to either figure out a way to get them in without them getting wet (a realllly big bag, I guess, maybe garbage bags...would be fitting, if you catch my drift!!! :whistle:)


I don't want to get my hopes up too much though, after the week I had. But, remaining hopeful all the same :)

[Debn31]

I do see their point. But, if someone has a receipt showing they paid full price and weren't trying to cheat it's not fair for the company to penalize them too.

Yes, exactly. And then I thought, the other thing is...how about people who spent the $99 and also didn't know??? I'm betting that for sure there are some who were not trying to cheat anything and just bought a car seat they heard was good and hey, it was on sale! How do you sort the people who knew and the people who didn't? You can't. And, it's really not anyone's fault that there was a short strap problem, certainly not the consumers, and yet we're the ones who are getting the short stick in all this.

As my 4.5 year old would say "It's not faaiirrrr". Nope, it's not. But that's the way it goes sometimes, I guess.

I've become much more educated though, on car seats and safety, so that's a real positive out of all this.

SKJP's policies and questionable ethics (IMO) still stink though. ;)

[Debn31]

Unfortunately, I know from experience that being nice to Russ and his staff does not equal good service. If you would like an example of what I'm talking about, search for Radian Fiasco to see the emails Russ and I exchanged back and forth regarding my defective RN.

Wow. Not to mention what you said about the three CS reps...
Well, isn't that interesting????? :rolleyes:

Sheds some new light on the situation.

Still glad I took the highroad in the end, but wow....is all I can manage to say.

I'm really sorry you had a bad experience too.
I've only read a small part of your Radian Fiasco stuff, and I'm floored.
At least mine wasn't a safety issue. I also would not have felt comfortable with a CRACKED seat!! What are they thinking over there?
If anything, your seat should have been replaced without question!
My goodness! There's no way I would have felt comfortable putting my kid in that seat either, *regardless* of the utterances of assurance he gave.

So I am guessing you too have sworn off SKJP (I know, why am I even asking? :p)

Thanks for letting me know, I've got some more reading (of your Radian Fiasco thread) to do.