True Fit and Marathon - (Lots of Pics)

[hipmaman]

Got my hands on a TF this morning and it's beautiful outside so we have been playing with our MA and TF. I'll focus more on the TF and comparison to the MA (rather than a 'review' of the MA since you can get that anywhere now :) ) Keep in mind, it's a new seat and it's my 1st time playing with it so things are not as easy.

First impression of the TF...

- I like it a lot as a seat. At this point, there are little things that still make the MA nicer, BUT for $100 difference, I don't see how the True Fit can go wrong. As time goes by, we will probably get a better sense in term of compatibility with different vehicles for the True Fit.

- Plush and solid, but not heavy as the Radian. Comparable weight to the MA (I got 19 lbs for the MA and a tad more than 20 lbs for the TF).

- Love the 35 lbs rf (with headrest though). Although you have to look hard to see max rf weight limit (with headrest) is 35 lbs in an illustration on one of the stickers (but it's in the manual).

- 7 yrs useful life. Mine is made 31 Mar 2008 and will expire 31 Mar 2015.

- But the manual needs works because I think it's confusing and to a 'normal' parent w/o the CRS knowledge, it can be frustrating. The installation is fussier than some seats due largely to the fact that installation is done 'under' the seat cover.

Things I noticed -

- Space between the inside of shoulder harness straps is about 3" and levelled (straight out without any angle). This gap is the same for the lowest to the highest slots. I found w/o the insert, one side can possibly slip off a baby's shoulder. In comparison, the gap for the MA is graduated from about 2" for the lowest slots to 3.5" for the highest set. The slots on the MA are more angled for the lowest slot (to sits on top the shoulder better) to a little angled for the 2nd highest and then straight out levelled for the top slots.

- Widest part is 19" and same for the Marathon. The inner width at the bum area is wider than the MA by about 1"

- Installation is a bit more fussy/cumbersome. The rf lock-offs cannot be closed for both of my Odyssey seatbelt webbings, so I used the lock-offs for the bottom webbing and the installation was tight enough. I then engage the seatbelt locking retractor and the installation is rock solid.

- FF lock-off is great and easy to use for UAS or seatbelt. However, the UAS strap is just not long enough to clear the lock-off entirely, but the seam of the UAS strap just inside the lock-off area and making the double webbings and seam too thick for the lock-off. I could easily engage the lock-off for the single UAS webbing though. No problem doubling up the seatbelt webbing here.

- Nice to see the explicit instruction that it can be used in vehicles and aircraft. Save the guessing that CMVSS 213 and 213.1 really mean the same thing

Anyway, lots of pictures here. I'm writing the descriptions/captions for each picture so you'll know what you are looking at. I will also come back to edit this post to add more notes.

http://picasaweb.google.ca/hipmaman/Carseats2008

[lemurmommies]

Oooh, thanks for the comparison pictures! I was especially interested in the top strap height for both seats. Given that there is virtually no difference, it has solidified my decision to not get a True Fit, and keep DS FF in his Marathon.

[mommycat]

An interesting note: my True Fit was also manufactured on March 31. :)

[Kashi]

Oh wow - it's a lot bigger than I thought it would be. But it looks really nice.

[horseymom]

thanks so much for that

[mommycat]

Maybe a dumb question, but why would one be putting the UAS belts in the lockoff? Just to route it the same way, right? So it doesn't matter if it lock or not?

[QuassEE]

Some people have actually broken their lockoffs with the belt and/or LATCH strap, and therefore many people choose to route belts through and lock off (to ensure the hanging part of the lockoff isn't broken, as well..) In some seats I actually feel that I get a better angle to get the seat tight with the belts through the lockoffs (eg. Roundabout in my old Pathfinder). Regardless using LATCH or a switched retractor, I always go for whatever the tightest/best install is.

So, it just depends.. Some seats, obviously, this isn't an option since the belts do not naturally fall within the lockoffs.

-Nicole.

[ShumNum]

Very nice photos! Very helpful

[snowbird25ca]

Wow Tam, thanks so much for all those pictures. Definitely the most I've seen of the seat so far. :D

Couple questions I'm hoping you might have the answer for. :thumbsup:

- if only the lap section of the belt fits into the rf'ing lock-offs, then you'd still have to engage the ALR in vehicles that have one, right? Do you think it's intended for the shoulder belt to fit into the lock-off as well? What I'm imagining might not actually be the case, but I'm curious.

- how is the harness to tighten in comparison to the MA?

- do you think it has deeper SIP than the MA? (total opinion question. ;))

I really like that it has a 7yr life span on it, means that even when you factor in time for shipping and on store shelves, that parents should be getting a seat with more than 6yrs use left in it when they buy it.

I still don't know whether I'm going to buy one or not. Want vs. rational thinking is having a debate right now. I'm sure I'll want one, but will I truly need it? Ds isn't likely to hit 30lbs for another year yet I'm guessing... then again, the only motivation to wait is that I might get dd a new combination seat instead. Ahhh, I'm trying to exercise some self control but I don't think it's going to win out in the end. :whistle:

[hipmaman]

- if only the lap section of the belt fits into the rf'ing lock-offs, then you'd still have to engage the ALR in vehicles that have one, right? Do you think it's intended for the shoulder belt to fit into the lock-off as well? What I'm imagining might not actually be the case, but I'm curious.

This is one area where the manual is not clear. The illustration show no seatbelt above the yellow lock-offs. So by deduction, I figured it meant for the lap AND shoulder portion to be thru the lock-offs for lap-and-shoulder seatbelt. And by having able to only lock-off the lap portion with both lock-offs, the installation is tight.

But I've been thinking about this problem all day too. By leaving the shoulder portion NOT locked by the seatbelt retractor is essentially leaving the whole seat in the pre-crash mode as lock-offs and locking clips are only good for that and the seatbelt retractor is what needs to be engaged. Right? What would be the case if only the lap portion in the lock-offs and there is only emergency retractor? Should still be okay, I would think because the emerg. retractor would kick in, right?

Hmmm.... I have to think more on this.

how is the harness to tighten in comparison to the MA?

I say about the same. The TF adjustor works in the same manner as the one on the MA.

Btw, the harness buckle/tongues assembly is a two-click system (ie. you hear a click when you fully push a tongue into the harness buckle). The buckle bears the same two US pattern pending numbers as the ones on my MA (4425688 and 4617705) and the chest clip looks like the IMMI clip on the MA.

Do you think it has deeper SIP than the MA? (total opinion question. ;))

I think it does, if one to judge by how deep or shallow the side wings are. The deepest part of the side wing on the TF measures about 7" and on the MA is about 4.5"

But keep in mind that the MA does not have True SIP while the TF is said to have "Supreme Side Impact Protection". I suspect the wings on the Diplomat and Boulevard would be comparable to the TF. (Another set of measurements I need to take when I go back to the display models in the store).

I still don't know whether I'm going to buy one or not. Want vs. rational thinking is having a debate right now. I'm sure I'll want one, but will I truly need it? Ds isn't likely to hit 30lbs for another year yet I'm guessing... then again, the only motivation to wait is that I might get dd a new combination seat instead. Ahhh, I'm trying to exercise some self control but I don't think it's going to win out in the end. :whistle:

It helps that I had a credit at Zellers :) LOL I am going to get my hands on the EFTA next to do the 3-way comparison. Radian might be harder to come by unless my local CT has one left.

[hipmaman]

A few more things to note... Keep in mind these measurements are subjected to my intepretation of where to start and where to end :) so they are not absolute numbers, but rather gives you an idea of the differences between the 2 seats.

- Rf use between 5 and 22 lbs w/o headrest or 5 and 35 lbs with headrest. In both cases, the max height is 1" below the top of the seat (ie. no quantitative rf height limit or the low 32" that the Marathon and many other seats current have).

- Ff use between 23 and 65 lbs, 50" or less and at least 1 yr. Note the 23 lbs min. for ff and the 1 yr old. The removable headrest must be used when ff.

- TF can be used with roof-mounted with curtain type of side-impact airbags. Other types of side airbags, refer to the vehicle instructions regarding use of carseats.

- TF has two adjustments for the scrotch buckle - 6" and 7". No re-threading, just push the buckle housing down and glide back or forth for either setting. MA has one position and it's around 6".

- The seating area is also a tad deeper in the TF - by about 0.5".

- The harness buckle/tongues assembly on the TF is a two-click system (ie. you hear a click when you fully push a tongue into the harness buckle). The buckle bears the same two US pattern pending numbers as the ones on my MA (4425688 and 4617705) and the chest clip looks like the IMMI clip on the MA.

- There is a handy carrying slot at the top of the removable headrest making carrying it easy. But w/o the removable headrest, it's bulky and hard to grab at the right areas to transport. In this case, the MA is easier to transport due to the lip around the shell while the TF w/o the removable headrest, the shell is just a smooth plastic shell all around.

- The cover is attached by 2 sets of elastic loops and 5 sets of heavy-dute snap buttons. Plush and well padded. Can only be washed by hand and line-dry.

- The infant insert cannot be used after 10 kg (22 lbs) or in ff position.

- Notice the long metal rods of the removable headrest? There is no way the headrest can go anywhere once inserted and in use (ie. not a potential fly-away object).

- I hope the material will not shrink in the wash/dryer because the snaps were a bit tricky to get back in. Harder when installed rf with the front snaps now flush with the vehicle seatback. Any shrinkage would not be acceptable because the cover is already snug as it is.

- The manual has a storage slot in the back of the TF, but once installed ff, it's inaccessible. Potential for lost, imo.

Anyway, more notes below the pictures. http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008

This weekend, I'll try to install it in a 2-door Honda sport coupe with emerg. retractor seatbelts only.

[snowbird25ca]

This is one area where the manual is not clear. The illustration show no seatbelt above the yellow lock-offs. So by deduction, I figured it meant for the lap AND shoulder portion to be thru the lock-offs for lap-and-shoulder seatbelt. And by having able to only lock-off the lap portion with both lock-offs, the installation is tight.

But I've been thinking about this problem all day too. By leaving the shoulder portion NOT locked by the seatbelt retractor is essentially leaving the whole seat in the pre-crash mode as lock-offs and locking clips are only good for that and the seatbelt retractor is what needs to be engaged. Right? What would be the case if only the lap portion in the lock-offs and there is only emergency retractor? Should still be okay, I would think because the emerg. retractor would kick in, right?

Hmmm.... I have to think more on this.



This is exactly what I was thinking about. Without the shoulder section, then lap portion right next to the buckle could potentially loosen - but I guess that raises the question of how much movement could it actually gain without trying to tip the seat on it's side. The bulk of the seat wouldn't make it easy for slack to just appear between the buckle and the edge of the seat shell, and the seat wouldn't be able to slide around at all to allow it to loosen up further, but I'd still think both portion of belt should be in the lock-off. :shrug-shoulders:

The US manual and CDN manual I'm guessing are fairly similar, and I noticed how lacking the instructions were about that when reading through it. I'd hoped maybe the installation diagrams on the seat might show the lock-off clearer, but now that I think about it those are just belt path diagrams...

I'll be really interested in your comparison of the EFTA with the other 2. I much prefer my EFTA over my MA right now and briefly considered buying a 2nd one for dd. Doesn't make too much sense to get another 47lb limit seat though when other higher weight seats are showing up now, even with how much I love it.

[canadiangie]

Thank you for the great pics OP.

I might have missed it, but what kind of UAS connectors does it have? Standard like what Graco offers for example, or the push-on aka alligator style like Britax?

Thanks!

[snowbird25ca]

Thank you for the great pics OP.

I might have missed it, but what kind of UAS connectors does it have? Standard like what Graco offers for example, or the push-on aka alligator style like Britax?

Thanks!

It has the push-on aka alligator style ones like Britax. :)

[canadiangie]

Well, with that in mind I'm having a hard time finding a downside to this seat. The price is just so reasonable, and I had no idea that it offered more SIP than the MA (I know, based on opinion, but that still counts for me). I'm thinking these might be my next seat purchases instead of the BV (assuming it ever comes here). Compass is not on board with rf tethering is that correct? This is of course fine with me btw, just mostly wondering. Either way, I'm so happy that this seat is now available, and in a mainstream family friendly store like Zellers. :thumbsup:

[Neatfreak]

This information is all excellent (and your little daughter is a most charming car seat model). I'm really interested to read how the install goes in your other vehicles with the emergency retractor seatbelts later on ...

[April]

Thanks so much for the pics, I like the TF from what I can see.

Just a question about the rf recline. I saw in your pic and comment that you can't get a 45 degree recline (or presumably thats what the recline angle is supposed to be when the line is horizontal with the ground) with the headrest on because it touches the back of the front seat. But my thinking is that you wouldn't need the headrest on with a smaller/younger baby that required a 45 degree recline anyways, and that once you needed to put the headrest on, the baby would be old enough for less of a recline angle, so therefore, it wouldn't matter (at least in your particular vehicle). Unless of course the manual explicitly states that there must be a 45 degree angle when rf. Sorry for my ignorance, I haven't read the manual. Can you clarify please?

[hipmaman]

It has the push-on aka alligator style ones like Britax. :)

In fact, the UAS connector is by SafeGuard, just like the Britax one. But, it's a one continuous strap with the adjustor loop on only one side.

[hipmaman]

Well, with that in mind I'm having a hard time finding a downside to this seat. The price is just so reasonable, and I had no idea that it offered more SIP than the MA (I know, based on opinion, but that still counts for me). I'm thinking these might be my next seat purchases instead of the BV (assuming it ever comes here). Compass is not on board with rf tethering is that correct? This is of course fine with me btw, just mostly wondering. Either way, I'm so happy that this seat is now available, and in a mainstream family friendly store like Zellers. :thumbsup:

Personally, I think it's a great seat for the money. So far, what you don't have in the True Fit, compared to the Marathon is mainly the rf tethering.

In addition, a couple unknowns are how easy to get tight installation in different vehicles (the Marathon fits in most vehicles and more positions) and how well it fits next to other carseats (for those with more than one carseat in one bench).

There are other things like easy of installation, better parts (lock-offs) in the Marathon, but not a huge deal, imo.

Installation is more fussy with the TrueFit, but it's not overly complicated, just different with installation done under the cover and with the 'strange' and new lock-offs that most people are not familiar with.

But if it fits in your vehicle well and you know how to install, then it's a great seat.

One caution (at this moment until I check it out further) is the lock-offs not able to close with both webbings for a seatbelt with emerg. retractor. I'm not 100% of the safety aspect on this until I check it out further with Learning Curve and other techs.

[hipmaman]

Just a question about the rf recline. I saw in your pic and comment that you can't get a 45 degree recline (or presumably thats what the recline angle is supposed to be when the line is horizontal with the ground) with the headrest on because it touches the back of the front seat. But my thinking is that you wouldn't need the headrest on with a smaller/younger baby that required a 45 degree recline anyways, and that once you needed to put the headrest on, the baby would be old enough for less of a recline angle, so therefore, it wouldn't matter (at least in your particular vehicle). Unless of course the manual explicitly states that there must be a 45 degree angle when rf. Sorry for my ignorance, I haven't read the manual. Can you clarify please?

My installation shows no help on the recline (ie. pool noodles, rolled-up towels, etc.) just for demo purpose. You're right that I can get 45 degree for her at this stage by not using the removable headrest :thumbsup:

I was leary about this point before reading the manual thinking that it was technical safety issues (with the seat) that prompts the TF to be at 45 degree at all times. But the manual states that 45 degree (or red line parallel to the ground) is to help with baby's airflow. I'm now comfortable to install it and tell parents that a more upright rf installation is fine.

[babychild taxi]

I just wish it wasn't so wide. It likely wouldn't work in a 3 across situation, which means, if needed, another radian-more $.....

K.

[hipmaman]

Cool mommycat!!! :thumbsup:

Being the geek that I am :) I took more pictures this morning, focusing on the areas that have been surfacing since the post yesterday... More pictures here http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008

Specifically, I found 3 distinct markings on my seatbelt webbing http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008/photo#5206216942897603426 I'm now concerned about the 'damaging' of seatbelt through the lock-off rows of teeth.

[snowbird25ca]

Awesome Tam, thanks for taking more pictures. :D

I'd obviously have to see it up close, but I don't think the marking from the lock-off is any cause for concern unless the actual fibers of the belt themself were scratched or snagged or something as a result. I still have a line in my belt where the SS1 was installed, but I know it's just pressure. Given what we know about buckle stalk twisting and that webbing returns to full strength after the buckle is untwisted, I'd guess that indented fibers aren't a risk to belt integrity. I actually have less marking from the SS1 lock-off then I do on my seatbelt when the radian was installed center. Can tell the seat won't go anywhere with those lock-offs though. :thumbsup:

(How is it that those plastic buttons always end up right in the middle of lock-offs? I had the same problem with my SS1 lock-off except I couldn't close it with the button in it, so I removed it. Both my outboard seatbelts are missing the plastic button now. :p The center plastic button is partially broken from being on the edge of the LATCH bar when the MA was ff'ing there, so I'm sure that one will come off all on it's own at some point.)

[lemurmommies]

Tam, quick question for you about the width of the straps on the lower strap height. I see what you mean about them being wider than the MA. The MA isn't generally recommended for newborns because of strap height... do you think that the TF would really work for a newborn?

Even though I'm not going to get one for E, I'm wondering if the TF might be a good birth + option for number 2, and then we could sell our SnugRide. Do you think it'd fit RF at a 45 degree angle in a Ford Focus?

[snowbird25ca]

Mommycat - thanks for all the pictures and sharing your thoughts. The more I hear people say about this the more excited I feel.

You know it dawned on me, I think we have a much bigger collection of info on the true fit in the CDN forum right now than what has appeared after it became approved in the US. This thread has become the perfect go-to for pictures and info about the seat. :thumbsup:

[hipmaman]

Awesome Tam, thanks for taking more pictures. :D

No problem at all since I've not been as busy as usual. And it's a new seat that I like making the effort easier :)

Btw, more pictures this afternoon with a few of the older kids in it (obviously not fitting in it anymore, but should give a good indication of sizing) http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008 I'm done taking pictures I think :) unless someone has specific requests.

I'd obviously have to see it up close, but I don't think the marking from the lock-off is any cause for concern unless the actual fibers of the belt themself were scratched or snagged or something as a result.

This one might be closer http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008/photo#5206301214450918514 The mark on the left is deeper and now permanent. The 2 lines are not as deep and I'm not too concerned about them.

Tam, quick question for you about the width of the straps on the lower strap height. I see what you mean about them being wider than the MA. The MA isn't generally recommended for newborns because of strap height... do you think that the TF would really work for a newborn?

Even though I'm not going to get one for E, I'm wondering if the TF might be a good birth + option for number 2, and then we could sell our SnugRide. Do you think it'd fit RF at a 45 degree angle in a Ford Focus?

The lowest slots on the TF is about 0.75" to 1" lower than those on the MA (TF about 9" to 9.25"). Adding the infant insert, it would make the lowest slots even shorter. The infant padding is quite thick (1.5" w/o compression and about 0.75" or so when I press the padding with my hand) Here is a picture http://picasaweb.google.com/hipmaman/Carseats2008/photo#5206253686342820818

A newborn hardly weigh anything to compress the padding, kwim? So that would make the lowest slots with the padding about 7.5" to 7.75" high. That's about the same as height for the lowest slots on any infant seat, right?

The infant insert and the head hugger are quite padded which would provide the snug fit that a newborn needs.

I don't know for sure about fitting it rf in the Focus. But I'm going to attemp installing it in my old '92 Honda Accord 2-door sport coupe this weekend. That might give an idea of how it would fit in a tight space.

[hipmaman]

Hmmm, we lost about 1 page of info. I'll try to remember what my additional notes are and add them here later. But in the meantime, lots of them are here on the photosite (under each picture there is note of some sort) http://picasaweb.google.ca/hipmaman/Carseats2008

[lovemybabes]

Thank you so much. This is incredibly helpful, though I am still stuck on the TF/MA/Radian debate... if you feel like ringing in your experienced two cents..:whistle:

Amazing pictures, thank you.

[hipmaman]

I don't have a Radian anymore to try and take pictures. But Trudy has all 3 seats and I'm sure she will answer in your other thread.